Speculation on points drop for Roboute Guilliman

[Ishagu]

No question the infantry are the big winners. I like the psychic discipline also, but the white scar one is better.

 

I'll be taking a Chaplain I think, and it's worth upgrading Intercessors to Veterans.

[Prot]

Yea the more I hear about his Litanies.... wow that's good. Isn't one of them a feel no pain of 5+? That plus Transhuman Physiology can make a large Veteran Intercessor squad, or Termies  extremely solid against a very tough target.

[Ishagu]

The 5+ is only against mortal wounds. People need to be more specific as it hypes people up and is wrong.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

We know the base Chaos Space Marine is costed at 13 points, the tactical Marine went down by one point to 12... so I just don’t see how anybody can honestly claim there was ever a Roboute Guilliman tax .

[Subtleknife]

Ah damn. All the vids I've watched said the litany was 5++ fnp not just against mortals.

[UnkyHamHam]

Important to not it's now much more expensive to run vet Intercessors from a cp standpoint.

 

It's 1/2 cp. 1 for a 5 man unit, and 2 for a 6-10 man unit.

 

It's so 2cp for all their shooting strats like rapid fire. Possibly 3cp for the stalker strat. I can't remember, sorry.

 

This will all add up real quick if you run more than 1 unit. Even just 1 ten man unit will be 4cp to rapid fire once.

[Ishagu]

Ah damn. All the vids I've watched said the litany was 5++ fnp not just against mortals.

Lol I watched a vid where a guy read the rule out loud and then said it does something else.

[Prot]

Ah damn. All the vids I've watched said the litany was 5++ fnp not just against mortals.

Yea I heard that too. Darn.

 

Well I just found out that Guilliman lost Adeot of the Codex (CP farming ) Warlord trait and it’s something more like Trajann’s Heroic Intervention trait. Don’t quote me on that of course I’m getting this from videos of players that don’t know Ultramarines very well. I just hope they read it wrong.

Edited August 10, 2019 by Prot

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

You can burn a CP to make another character have a WLT for the CP farming.

[Paulinus]

So he drops to 350. Loses adept. Only rerolls 1s to wound aura but rerolls hits and misses now. Not too bad.

 

We’ll have to see how he interacts with the stratagems.

 

Glad he isn’t necessarily an auto take for Ultras.

[Prot]

I’m okay with most of this, however the legalities of how he fits in a list seems really weird and awkward to me.

[Ishagu]

It's true that he did lose that Warlord trait.

 

Luckily we gained access to a nice Psychic Power allowing us to generate additional CP, and we can take an additional Warlord trait by burning a CP.

 

I think if/when I'm running a generic character this would be a good investment.

 

I actually think it's pretty absurd that he doesn't get the Ultramarines tactic, but you can take a random character in a regular auxiliary detachment and they get their Tactics and rules.

If he doesn't get the Ultramarines tactic does he actually benefit from the Tactical Doctrine bonus (Scions of Guilliman) that other Ultramarines get?

Edited August 11, 2019 by Ishagu

[Joukernaut]

Yes, he supposedly has the angels of death ability, so he should be able to benefit form doctrines.

I'm really curious wether he's really that difficult to legally bring in an ultra list, if this is all true I bet it will be FAQ'd.

[Emicus]

Lost reroll wounds, doesn't get his own tactic unless you take another two hqs..

 

50 points wasnt enough. It's not '90points more than calgar and a lt' it's in addition to!

 

Or you can run 2 lts with overlapping aura and gman. What a tax.

[Captain Idaho]

He doesn't really need Ultramarines Chapter Tactic often though eh. Let's not be chicken little!

 

Just take him in an Auxiliary. It'll be fine.

[Cruor Vault]

Lost reroll wounds, doesn't get his own tactic unless you take another two hqs..

 

50 points wasnt enough. It's not '90points more than calgar and a lt' it's in addition to!

 

Or you can run 2 lts with overlapping aura and gman. What a tax.

Guilliman changed so much more than people realize.

 

Several things key off ADEPTUS ASTARTES rather than INFANTRY or BIKE.

 

Guilliman now qualifies for the following strats:

 

Honour the Chapter (Fight Twice)

Transhuman Physiology. (1s, 2s and 3s, fail to wound regardless of special rules)

Fall Back and Regroup (fall back and shoot/charge normally)

 

Running Might of Heroes on him now generates 8  S9 -4 3D attacks (or 8 S14 -3 D4 with the fist) potentially fighting twice!

 

Edit: Chaplains can also grant him a 5+++ against MW and/or exploding 6s in melee.

 

He's going to rampage through enemy lines, duel Knights to a standstill and be a giant pain in the ass for people.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Cruor Vault

[Captain Idaho]

Not to mention he's firing 6 shots a turn at AP-2 and D2, using the Tactical Doctrine.

[Ishagu]

Not to mention he's firing 6 shots a turn at AP-2 and D2, using the Tactical Doctrine.

How is he getting this? His weapon isn't a Bolter.

 

Unless they have specified this somewhere.

 

The extra Strat support is indeed good, but I'll wait to see the exact wording in the book as we might be missing things

Edited August 11, 2019 by Ishagu

[L30n1d4s]

It's a Rapid Fire Weapon, which is what the Tactical Doctrine impacts (along with Assault Weapons).

[Ishagu]

It's a Rapid Fire Weapon, which is what the Tactical Doctrine impacts (along with Assault Weapons).

It doesn't rapid fire at max range, that's what I mean. He gets an extra AP, yes.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Ishagu

[Captain Idaho]

Scions of Guilliman - he counts as not having moved in the movement Phase when the Tactical Doctrine is in affect. The same as all Ultramarines with the Angels of Death Key word.

[Ishagu]

Yes but what does that do for Guilliman?

 

His weapon doesn't rapid fire at max range when standing still.

 

He only gains an extra AP, the minimal bonus.

[Captain Idaho]

Never mind you are right, it's not a bolter strictly speaking. I do apologise.

 

So much for trying to be funny. Backfired a little doh.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Captain Idaho

[Ishagu]

It really bums me out that once again, the Ultramarines Primarch doesn't really benefit from Ultramarines rules.

 

You can't even give him the CT in Apocalypse sized games because as of right now the other Astartes Lords of War don't have the Angels of Death keyword, and taking them would erase access to the Doctrines.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Ishagu

[Captain Idaho]

Well Apocalypse is a side game that isn't really that popular by all accounts.

 

Besides that, I'd like to see clarification on his bolter. It's a bolter in the fluff but technically it's just the Hand of Dominion now.

 

 

Speaking of which; it's a really solid choice now. D4 and S12 and now he doesn't reroll all wounds you might use it

 

Shooting is still good mind. Guilliman shouldn't be a gunline thing and I'm sure with advancing Ultramarines now taking advantage of the Tactical Doctrine, he'll be up close more often.

 

Basically that's why his points cost is what it is. He's getting stuck in more than babysitting a couple Repulsors and Centurions.