LF Advice on psychic powers, please?

[Phok Smoulder]

I am a returning player, not played 8th yet (not played in over 15 years) I wanted to start a chaos daemons army, and I seen this list that has lots of the mini's I like in it, plus a few DP's for me to convert. 

I am not sure what psyhic powers to take though, with this not really having many thousand sons mini's, I doubt the spells that buff Thousand sons units will be any good at all for this list will they? I mean the pink horrors I think might have the keyword, but they will be in a chaos undiovided detachment, so not sure how this works. 

anyway the list is one I found on bell of souls from a tournament, so just using it as sort of a guide while I build my army. Like I say it has a lot of things I like and want to paint in it, so makes sense. I just really don't have much of an idea when it comes to choosing the spells for the most part. if anyone could offer any advice on the subject, it would be greatly appreciated. 

thank you. 

Supreme Command Detachment – Chaos – Thousand Sons HQ Ahriman Daemon Prince of Tzeentch, Malefic Talon, Wings, Warlord, Helm of the Third Eye Daemon Prince of Tzeentch, Malefic Talon, Wings Battalion Detachment – Chaos – Daemons – Chaos Undivided HQ Changecaster Daemon Prince of Chaos – Daemonic Ax, Khrone, Wings The Contorted Epitome Troops 20 x Bloodletters – Daemonic Icon, Instument of Chaos 30 x Horrors – Instrument of Chaos 10 x Brimstone Horrors Battalion Detachment – Chaos – Daemons – Nurgle HQ Poxbringer Sloppity Bilepiper Troops 3 x Nurglings 30 x Plaguebearers – Daemonic Icon 30 x Plaguebearers – Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos CP: 14 Points Total:1990


I'm sorry if this format is bad, I just cut and paste it from the article. 

Edited August 12, 2019 by Phok Smoulder

[The Yncarne]

I think you may have more success in the chaos daemons forum given your proposed list.

[Closet Skeleton]

I've played almost that list (no contorted Epitome) and its an **** list to take outside of a competitive setting. Thousand Sons Daemon Princes are horribly undercosted and allying in TS just to bring two and Ahriman is about as exploitative as 8th ed Soup gets.

 

It doesn't have many TS units to buff but it does have the daemon princes so it can make use of pretty much all the buffs TS get apart from prescience and that's only because Princes and Ahriman hit on 2s anyway.

 

Usually you bring Warptime and Death Hex from the Dark Hereticus discipline because they're amazing and then Infernal Gaze because you its basically an extra smite (this list did more damage to my Genestealer cult with mortal wounds than all my guns did back despite a T3 5+ save army being a bad target for mortal wounds and his daemons being an okay target for autoguns). From Discipline of Change (the TS only discipline) you take Doombolt because nerfing your opponent's speed is always good, weaver of fates because 3++ daemon princes are good. Tzeentch's firestorm is also okay but Infernal Gaze seems more popular.

 

TS Daemon Princes also have the Tzeentch discipline from the Daemon book so that works on all Tzeentch daemons.

[Phok Smoulder]

If anyone has the contorted epitome, does it have the colours from the box art on the back, please? if this is the case can someone take a pic of it for me, please? I'm really not sure on a few colours on there, and could do with some guidance. Seems there is very little info on panting this thing online at the minute. 

[Phok Smoulder]

I've played almost that list (no contorted Epitome) and its an **** list to take outside of a competitive setting. Thousand Sons Daemon Princes are horribly undercosted and allying in TS just to bring two and Ahriman is about as exploitative as 8th ed Soup gets.

 

It doesn't have many TS units to buff but it does have the daemon princes so it can make use of pretty much all the buffs TS get apart from prescience and that's only because Princes and Ahriman hit on 2s anyway.

 

Usually you bring Warptime and Death Hex from the Dark Hereticus discipline because they're amazing and then Infernal Gaze because you its basically an extra smite (this list did more damage to my Genestealer cult with mortal wounds than all my guns did back despite a T3 5+ save army being a bad target for mortal wounds and his daemons being an okay target for autoguns). From Discipline of Change (the TS only discipline) you take Doombolt because nerfing your opponent's speed is always good, weaver of fates because 3++ daemon princes are good. Tzeentch's firestorm is also okay but Infernal Gaze seems more popular.

 

TS Daemon Princes also have the Tzeentch discipline from the Daemon book so that works on all Tzeentch daemons.

thank you, so you're saying it's good then? ha ha.

 

Good job as I'm just about to order the majority of the troops tonight.

 

Do you mean it's unfair to use in a friendly environment? it'll be OK as I'm new so don't know what I'm doing. I won't be able to harness it to it's peak potential for a while yet. I just like chaos daemon lists, and think the whole tzeentch leading an undivided army is quite fluffy as well. Also my friend is looking to exploit the new space marine stuff to the fullest potential, so I need something that can smash his stuff up. ha ha.

 

My other army is IG and that's pretty nasty as well though. I just thought I'd enjoy painting the varied schemes of a daemons army first, before committing to painting everything in drab and camo. I have been having loads of fun doing my priests and astro's and stuff though. on to my lord commissars next. 

 

I think you may have more success in the chaos daemons forum given your proposed list.

thanks dude. yeah I had actually thought this after posting. it's mostly a daemon army. ha ha.

 

I've read the dex and had some help now though, so have a much better idea whats going on.

Edited August 13, 2019 by Phok Smoulder

[Closet Skeleton]

3 Daemon Princes isn't especially fluffy in any list, even back when they warped the rules to sell more kits with the heavy support slot princes back in 5th ed.

 

I have Epitome box near me.

 

It just says:

 

mirror

celestia grey

drakenhof nightshade

blue horror

white scar

 

silver

Leadbelcher

druchii violet

ironbreaker

stormhost silver

 

It does look like thined druichi violet on that metal but its a lot of blending to get that mirror out of those colours.

[Phok Smoulder]

3 Daemon Princes isn't especially fluffy in any list, even back when they warped the rules to sell more kits with the heavy support slot princes back in 5th ed.

 

I have Epitome box near me.

 

It just says:

 

mirror

celestia grey

drakenhof nightshade

blue horror

white scar

 

silver

Leadbelcher

druchii violet

ironbreaker

stormhost silver

 

It does look like thined druichi violet on that metal but its a lot of blending to get that mirror out of those colours.

does it not mention what colours their hair is or the gems as well, please? I think the gems are steggadon through sotek to temple guard anyway. and maybe the hair is Gal Vorbak base with something like knight-questor and deathclaw brown highlights. but i can't be sure. 

 

EDIT: OK you might be right about the 3 DP's, but everyone runs multiple DP's, even in mono lists. I was talking about Tzeentch leading an undivided army. it's always Tzeentch who brings the powers together, so it makes the most sense for tzeentch to be at the head of such an army. 

Edited August 13, 2019 by Phok Smoulder

[Raven1]

I'll say that this, 8th edition, is not like older editions when a good list basically piloted it self.

 

If you are not playing it well you will stil lose. It is mostly a demon list so that subforum might be more helpful, but it is a competitive list if that's what you are looking to play. You can insta-kill flyers with the Controted Epitome. This is one of the few lists I think an Elder flyer list has to be worried about.

 

I wouldn't take the list to friendly game necessarily but an in-store competition or tournament, go nuts.

 

I realize I didn't say anything about psychic powers

 

For Tzeentch

Gaze of Fate, Flickering Flames, Boon of change are really helpful as they give a free re-roll and the later will buff Horrors very well.

 

For Thousand Sons

Temporal Manipulation, Glamour of Tzeentch, Weaver of Fates will keep characters alive. Death Hex removes invul saves which is great agaisnt other demons. (Used it tonight against 30 strong Horrors tonight nearly wiped with squad in one go with a Helforged Contemptor)

 

Slaanesh and Nurgle I'm not really sure.

 

Slaanesh-Phantasmagoria I think would go well with the Contorted Epitome

 

Nurgle-Virulent Blessing (buff in melee), and Miasma of Pestilence (harder to hit)

[Dr_Ruminahui]

 

does it not mention what colours their hair is or the gems as well, please? I think the gems are steggadon through sotek to temple guard anyway. and maybe the hair is Gal Vorbak base with something like knight-questor and deathclaw brown highlights. but i can't be sure. 

 

I posted this over on your chaos demons thread, but I don't know if you saw it.

 

I have managed to scan the booklet page, but am not computer savey enough to edit the .jpg so there is a lot of white space - sorry about that.  In any case, the colours are as detailed above by others, I just thought the photos might also help.

 

 

As for the contorted epitome killing fliers, that does require you to charge them first - which means with your demon princes.  It's a neat trick, but one I wouldn't rely on - if the opponent is aware of it, its not too difficult to avoid and/or kill the princes and/or epitome.

[Phok Smoulder]

I'll say that this, 8th edition, is not like older editions when a good list basically piloted it self.

 

If you are not playing it well you will stil lose. It is mostly a demon list so that subforum might be more helpful, but it is a competitive list if that's what you are looking to play. You can insta-kill flyers with the Controted Epitome. This is one of the few lists I think an Elder flyer list has to be worried about.

 

I wouldn't take the list to friendly game necessarily but an in-store competition or tournament, go nuts.

 

I realize I didn't say anything about psychic powers

 

For Tzeentch

Gaze of Fate, Flickering Flames, Boon of change are really helpful as they give a free re-roll and the later will buff Horrors very well.

 

For Thousand Sons

Temporal Manipulation, Glamour of Tzeentch, Weaver of Fates will keep characters alive. Death Hex removes invul saves which is great agaisnt other demons. (Used it tonight against 30 strong Horrors tonight nearly wiped with squad in one go with a Helforged Contemptor)

 

Slaanesh and Nurgle I'm not really sure.

 

Slaanesh-Phantasmagoria I think would go well with the Contorted Epitome

 

Nurgle-Virulent Blessing (buff in melee), and Miasma of Pestilence (harder to hit)

thanks man, really appreciated. I just ordered the epitome tonight as eldar flyers are pretty big right now. if this unit can help me VS. those, then that's great. 

 

I also have another list planned with 3 x flawless host discolords in a supreme command, and then a slaanesh daemon battalion with the epitome, masque and some daemonettes. The rest of the list will be various CSM bits, including the obligatory ahriman and tzeentch DP, then some tzaangors, cultists and bikers. a very fast list, but similar to the other soup list in some ways. 

 

I reckon this kind of list should be pretty well in the coming meta. might even be alright against iron hands. 

 

 

 

does it not mention what colours their hair is or the gems as well, please? I think the gems are steggadon through sotek to temple guard anyway. and maybe the hair is Gal Vorbak base with something like knight-questor and deathclaw brown highlights. but i can't be sure. 

 

I posted this over on your chaos demons thread, but I don't know if you saw it.

 

I have managed to scan the booklet page, but am not computer savey enough to edit the .jpg so there is a lot of white space - sorry about that.  In any case, the colours are as detailed above by others, I just thought the photos might also help.

 

 

As for the contorted epitome killing fliers, that does require you to charge them first - which means with your demon princes.  It's a neat trick, but one I wouldn't rely on - if the opponent is aware of it, its not too difficult to avoid and/or kill the princes and/or epitome.

 

 

thanks. I had forgot to check back on these threads. I juist ordered this unti so found this just in time.