"Sleeper" rules/abilities from the UM Supplement

[Kallas]

Funny thing is I remember when the points dropped on land speeders and I tried them out a lot and I remember my biggest frustration was moving and shooting with the penalty for my speeders never made sense. So if I understand Scions of Guilliman correctly, guess who’s pulling out his speeders again? Sleeper unit? I don’t know but I think my favourite load out might get have went down in cost as well.

 

Scions of Guilliman and them dropping to 45pts base will do a lot to help them out.

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah I'm adding 2 Typhoons to my list now. In support of 3 Centurions, it provides a similar stat line and MORE heavy weapons for that Devastator Doctrine goodness, before switching things up to the Tactical Doctrine.

[Cruor Vault]

The Centurion Sergeant with Hurricane Bolters with Mastercrafted Relic will make people cry.

 

As Chronus is both a named character AND a VEHICLE he's not eligible for special issue wargear in the new book, this isn't going to be a thing.

 

 

However Chronus in a Stalker. with the Skyfire Stratagem is looking like a solid and cheap HQ (125pts).

 

BS2+, with a potential +2 to hit VSs FLY (+1 from Stalker Autocannons, +1 from Skyfire Strat).  He's +1 to wound and dealing 4 Damage on natural 6s. 

 

Against Eldar Flyers he hits everything on 2s, 3s if it's a Lightning Reflexes Alaitoc Flyer.

 

S7 wounds Eldar Flyers on 3s, meaning 2s with Skyfire.

 

If Gman is nearby and the Devastator Doctrine is active, you're getting ~10 damage on a flyer.

[h0U5e]

We can pretty reliably cast Null Zone (which is WC7 now) with Tigurius' reroll / +1 to cast and another UM Lib giving him a +2 with Empyric Channelling (WC5)

[Ishagu]

I think Grav Centurions are a big deal again.

 

I'm even considering looking at a Spartan to transport a full squad of six and a chapter master.

 

Their new Strat to re-roll to wound and the damage dice means they will severely hurt any unit they target.

Edited August 14, 2019 by Ishagu

[Captain Idaho]

Especially if you make the Sergeant's Grav Cannon Mastercrafted... ;)

 

Anyone think of any other cool recipients of the Mastercrafted Relic? A Hellblaster doing Damage 3 each turn could be nice.

 

Assault Centurion Siege Drills are a candidate.

 

It'll be wasteful as there are better choices, but various Sniper weapons.

 

Except maybe Eliminators. Their Sniper Rifle is actually really powerful. But do they need it over the big choices like Aggressors and Centurions?

 

Oh, here's one that came to me... Plasma Blasters on Tartaros Terminator Sergeants.

 

***

 

Oh yeah, whilst thinking of units people don't normally consider; the Chapter Champion apparently has a Mastercrafted power sword now. That's fairly important.

[Closet Skeleton]

Company Champions always had master crafted ones so I assume Chapter Champions did too.

 

I think sniper rifle wielding sergeants are better with the mortal wound shells than master-crafted. Its only 1 mortal wound but dropping 1 reliable wound on anyone in range is very useful.

[Captain Idaho]

An automatic mortal wound is nice. But there are few Snipers with Bolters and I suspect the stock weapon for Eliminators will do more damage (S5 D3 damage).

 

***

 

Yes it was a strange oversight in the last Codex. Why the Chapter Champion had a basic power sword whilst the Company Champion had a Mastercrafted one, I have no idea.

 

But it has changed now which is nice.

Edited August 14, 2019 by Captain Idaho

[Ishagu]

-There's a psychic power that add +2 to cast and removes the chance to peril.

Add that to Tiggy's +1 to cast, and you are doing D6 mortal wounds on a 2D6 roll of 7 through smite. (Or is it only D6 on an 11?)

 

-I'm a big fan of the relic that grants re-rolls to hit and wound against a chosen unit - this is mandatory if you're likely to face Knights.

 

-The Master Crafted relics on a Sgts are not worth it, with the exception of a Grav Centurion Sgt.

 

 

Centurions are catching my eye, definitely. The drops in weapon cost and the extra wound makes the Grav Cents very effective and durable, and stratagems reward a big unit. My only problem is their speed. A Spartan might be the solution lol

[Captain Idaho]

Centurions are going to rock, no doubt about it. If I didn't love the Heavy Bolter dudes I got already I'd whack a bunch with Grav into the list already.

 

I do think a Hurricane Bolter Sergeant is worth Mastercrafted though. Damage 2 is a big deal, even on a S4 platform.

 

I'm totally down for that Relic. It basically means we can more easily kill a single target each game which is amazing.

Edited August 14, 2019 by Captain Idaho

[Prot]

So since my Centurions are one Grav, 2 x Las, why is everyone so hot on the Grav guys exclusively? What am I missing?

 

The reason I've been using 2 x Las Cents is they do a lot of heavy lifting against Knights. They come out of the Landraider, and typically it's protected by Tigurius and his Master of Prescience + Might of Heroes.

 

About Aggressors (which I imagine aren't a 'sleeper' hit persay) I keep thinking that the test games I've had the 10 Vet Intercessors did so much work I may not need to use the points there. 

[Kallas]

Grav Cannons have gone down from 28pts to 20pts. Additionally, there's a 1CP stratagems in the core Codex that lets a whole unit reroll wound and damage rolls for Grav Cannons.

[Ishagu]

Grav Cannons have gone down from 28pts to 20pts. Additionally, there's a 1CP stratagems in the core Codex that lets a whole unit reroll wound and damage rolls for Grav Cannons.

Yes this is very spicy. It encourages a larger unit, and perhaps Raven Guard will have some strong combos if they can move a squad before the game starts.

[crazyterran]

The main downside of Centurions now will be getting them into place with Gravcannons, as you can’t just move them around with Draigo like before.

[Prot]

Grav Cannons have gone down from 28pts to 20pts. Additionally, there's a 1CP stratagems in the core Codex that lets a whole unit reroll wound and damage rolls for Grav Cannons.

 

Just so I understand... this definitely translates into Grav Cannons with Grav Amps? This isn't just a reduction for Dev variants?  (Because I think this would put them at the cost of twin Heavy Bolters?)

Edited August 14, 2019 by Prot

[Ishagu]

 

 

Grav Cannons have gone down from 28pts to 20pts. Additionally, there's a 1CP stratagems in the core Codex that lets a whole unit reroll wound and damage rolls for Grav Cannons.

Just so I understand... this definitely translates into Grav Cannons with Grav Amps? This isn't just a reduction for Dev variants? (Because I think this would put them at the cost of twin Heavy Bolters?)

Yeah I had a look at the book today, it's 20 points. I didn't see a more expensive variant.

[Kallas]

I believe they both use Grav Cannons with Grav Amps.

 

Looking through the Codex review video, the Devastators refer to the Wargear list which has "Grav Cannon with Grav Amp"; and the Centurion Devastators have the option for "Grav Cannon with Grav Amp" - so they're using the same weapons.

[Toxichobbit]

Something else that no reviewers seem to have picked up on, is that the Demolisher Cannon is now Heavy D6. Not D3 with D6 against 5+ models, just straight D6. So Heavy D6, Str10, Ap-3, D6 damage. That's going to make a hole in enemy vehicles & monstrous creatures. Especially when it can move and fire without penalty, or have AP-4.

Edited August 14, 2019 by Toxichobbit

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah not bad.

 

I think many of us are just a little disappointed that such a massive cannon isn't more, I dunno, more awe inspiring. Same goes for that massive Missile Launcher on a Hunter.

 

Oh well, still competitive but without being inspiring or with Strategum support I just don't feel many people will jump on that band wagon.

 

Sadly as it's my favourite vehicle for Marines.

[Toxichobbit]

D3 shots was pitiful. D6 shots and being able to move helps a lot. It's not as impressive as I'd like, but it's an improvement at least.

[Joukernaut]

I think there’s definately a point to be made for two to three vindicators in a list for anti tank. You would need redundancy to be sure kill anything since D6 shots can still be very swingy, but they are pretty tough and decently priced pointwise

They suit my playstyle again now that they are mobile, and I would love to try them out.

You could drive it up, shoot a turn or two and if needed ram them into the frontline to eat some overwatch, fall back, put a stratagem on it and shoot at full BS.

Unfortunately this is one of the few vehicles I don’t own in pairs or triplets.

[Toxichobbit]

While we're talking about Vindicators, sadly (or not, depending on your point of view) Linebraker Bombarbment is gone. Same deal for Predators with Killshot.

[Ishagu]

D6 shots is solid at the price. The unit is worth it now.

[Captain Idaho]

One day I'll get 3. Actually as soon as plastic 30K Breachers come out I'll get 3!

 

(Inspired by the best HH book so far, Betrayer)

Edited August 14, 2019 by Captain Idaho

[Cruor Vault]

The new Chaplain Crozius Relic is amazing.

 

I did some math on it, and with MoH and the Mantra of Strength Litany, you can get upwards of 30 damage in a single turn against a Knight from a 90pt jump pack Chaplain and 4-5CP.