"Sleeper" rules/abilities from the UM Supplement

[Kallas]

The new Chaplain Crozius Relic is amazing.

 

I did some math on it, and with MoH and the Mantra of Strength Litany, you can get upwards of 30 damage in a single turn against a Knight from a 90pt jump pack Chaplain and 4-5CP.

 

Yeah, being capable of dishing out 7-14 9/-2/4 attacks is pretty nutty! Doesn't even require the sacrifice of a Warlord either, thanks to Hero of the Chapter!

 

In fact, it only really requires two CP: one for a Relic (because let's be honest, the new Marines Relics are so damn good, we're always taking two!) and one for the Warlord Trait.

[Captain Idaho]

Care to elaborate on the combo here? I'm itching to know what we're talking about exactly!

[Kallas]

Care to elaborate on the combo here? I'm itching to know what we're talking about exactly!

 

Chaplain: Base S4/3A

• Benediction of Fury (Crozius Relic): +2/-2/3D; unmodified 6s to wound cause 1 Mortal Wound in addition
• Hero of the Chapter (give a WLT to a non-Warlord; 1CP) - give Imperium's Sword (reroll charges and +1S/A on charge/HI); or Champion of Humanity (+1 to hit/wound vs characters; +1A if within 1" of any enemy characters)
• Mantra of Strength (Litany): +1 S/A/Damage for the Chaplain
• Might of Heroes: +1 S/T/A for target model

Assuming Imperium's Sword, that's:

7 Attacks (3 Base +1 Shock Assault +1 Imperium's Sword +1 Mantra +1 Might)

S9 (4 Base +2 Benediction +1 Imp's Sword +1 Mantra +1 Might)

AP-2

D4 (3 Base +1 Mantra)

 

So 7 9/-2/4 attacks: against a Knight they average, without any rerolls, 11 unsaved wounds on a Knight (including the Mortal Wounds). With fighting twice (either through Honour The Chapter, or Only In Death Does Duty End) you can double that.

 

With a Captain and Lieutenant it's an average of 15 wounds (including MW); so 30 fighting twice.

 

If Assault Doctrine is active, and with the rerolls, it'd be 18.5/37 damage.

 

If you want to go crazy: throw in the Seal of Oath and Assault Doctrine for: 24.5/49 damage. Vs a Knight.

[Captain Idaho]

Move over Smash Captains; we got Bash Chaplains.

[Kallas]

Move over Smash Captains; we got Bash Chaplains.

 

I saw a name on Reddit for it that I love: Father Pain 

[Captain Idaho]

Oh my, something I picked up on Striking Scorpion's review - Hammer of Wrath!

 

1 CP - Jump Pack unit Strategum

Pick an enemy unit and roll a D6 for each model in your unit - each 5+ causes a Mortal Wound.

 

That is tidy.

 

 

Move over Smash Captains; we got Bash Chaplains.

 

 

I saw a name on Reddit for it that I love: Father Pain :teehee:

Seems like a 60s Batman villain name.

 

Bash Chaplain rhymes with Smash Captain.

Edited August 14, 2019 by Captain Idaho

[Toxichobbit]

 

I think Assault Squads might actually be decent now. They've gained Shock Assault and potentially Assault Doctrine and for 1CP can do a Mortal Wound on a 5+ when they charge. I think I'm going to give a 10 man unit a go and see if it's enough to give them a place.

 

 

 

Oh my, something I picked up on Striking Scorpion's review - Hammer of Wrath!

 

1 CP - Jump Pack unit Strategum

Pick an enemy unit and roll a D6 for each model in your unit - each 5+ causes a Mortal Wound.

 

That is tidy.

 

Yep, it's nice :). To be fair, I only mentioned it with Assault Squads, but it could be useful for other units. I never run Vanguard Veteran Squads big enough to take advantage, but maybe I should. I'm not sure with Inceptors. If I run a squad of 6, I might actually consider using it on them and charging a vehicle. They do Mortal Wounds on 6s natively, then again on 5s. Should average out about 3 MWs, so there's times it might be worth it. It's not like they can get tied up an unable to shoot next turn.

[Cruor Vault]

 

Move over Smash Captains; we got Bash Chaplains.

 

I saw a name on Reddit for it that I love: Father Pain 

 

 

Yeah, that was my post.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I have been preaching DevCents for a long time now. This place is getting quite cliche for no good reason.

[Spinsanity]

 

 

Move over Smash Captains; we got Bash Chaplains.

 

I saw a name on Reddit for it that I love: Father Pain :teehee:

Seems like a 60s Batman villain name.

 

Bash Chaplain rhymes with Smash Captain.

So does Father Pain...

+Edit: or maybe it’s my french pronounciation messing with me?)

Edited August 15, 2019 by Spinsanity

[Prot]

Move over Smash Captains; we got Bash Chaplains.

  

 

Baplains!

 

I think I’m going to pick up a Primaris chaplain when I go to GW to grab my dice/codex. Even if just for fun. There’s some serious punch in that relic. 3 Damage is no joke.

 

I’ll probably pair him up with my Invictus Guard which I use every game anyway.

 

 

Move over Smash Captains; we got Bash Chaplains.

 

 

I saw a name on Reddit for it that I love: Father Pain :teehee:

Good name, but I’ll probably just call mine the Punisher because 90% of the time in my meta he’s going to be crushing Riptides and wailing Muscle Beach armies. :)

 

Another Relic I just discovered ( I know I’m late in this) is the one that is like a pseudo Guilliman. Since you pick relics in tournaments most often on a game by game basis this is very potent against hard target lists. Before the game you pick a unit your relic holder can see and reroll all to hit and wounds for units targeting that unit.

[crazyterran]

I just looked at Cassius again, and for five points over a chaplain with a combi flamer, he gets:

 

+1 T

a Master Crafted Combi Flamer, the bolter portion being 4/-1/2

An Artificer Crozius, being +2/-2/2

Friendly models that die within 6" deal a mortal to wound to the enemy unit that slew them on a 6

knows an extra litany

can recite an extra litany

 

He's probably our best special character in the book for sheer buffing ability outside of Guilliman, and probably the best for his points cost.

 

The next CA is probably going to half again his price, cause what he gets for that price is nuts.

Edited August 15, 2019 by crazyterran

[Captain Idaho]

@ Prot: Yeah that Relic is an auto include for me. It enables the army to remove 1 thing they're worried about most of all. It also means my focus on the Devastator Doctrine early game with lots of Heavy Bolters and the like will be effective against it!

 

As for the Bash Chaplain (still trying) I think he'll work with Primaris alongside Aggressors out of a Repulsor too.

 

So both Classic and Primaris get a great unit there.

 

***

 

Cassius is pretty amazing now. He knows 2 Litanies which is very flexible, as a Chaplain is auto include for me but I want the +1 to wound and +1 to hit liturgies! (Or whatever the bonus to hit one was)

[Ishagu]

Chaplains are very good now. A traditional Chaplain with jump pack becomes an aggressive, Smash Captain style unit. It will be hard to get all the combos out simultaneously but he will still be effective generally against many targets.

 

A Chaplain on foot, Primaris or otherwise can become a strong defensive/mid game offensive unit.

 

It should be mentioned that you could mastercraft a Thunderhammer for 4 damage and create a strong Smash Captain in the codex, but it should be said that White Scars do both of these far more effectively than Ultras.

[Captain Idaho]

Yes White Scars are an assault force with few peers right now I reckon.

 

But it's one trick they do well. We do lots of other stuff much better ;)

[MrZakalwe]

1) "Seal of Oath" Relic -- Available as one of the Special Issue Wargear items (so can be taken by UMs or successors at no cost), this is basically the Ultramarine version of "Old Grudges" Warlord Trait from the AM Codex. At the start of the first battle round, but before the first turn, select an enemy unit. For the rest of the game, any friendly UM units within 6" of the bearer of the "Seal of Oath" can re-roll all to Hit and all to Wound rolls for the rest of the battle. So, basically, this allows you to replicate the old version of Guilliman against a single, selected enemy target, but with the flexibility of being able to take it on any generic UM/Successor character, since it is a Relic that does not replace a specific weapon/piece of Wargear.

 

Combined with the new-found lethality of Space Marines in general and Ultramarines in particular, thanks to the new Codex/Supplement and all the Doctrines, Stratagems, WL Traits, and sundry new rules found in them, I think this will be a "don't leave home without it" relic for me anytime I play UM or their successors. The ability to pick a key enemy unit, like an Imperial Knight, Magnus/Mortarian, a maxed out Mob of Lootas, Biker Seer Council, Custodes Vertus Praetors, Necron Destroyers, a Tau Riptide, buffed up Bullgryn squads, massed DE Talos Pain Engines, Hive Tyrants with all the upgrades, etc. etc. and re-roll all to Hits/all to Wounds against it is SO powerful.

 

Personally, I think I will be combining this with another "sleeper" unit for the Ultramarines (or for all Marines, for that matter), the good old 7th edition stand-by of Grav Cannon/Hurricane Bolter Centurions, who have gone down in price (Grav Cannons are cheaper), are now 4W/3A base per model, and benefit significantly from the new Angels of Death and Combat Doctrines rules, as well as from the new Stratagems that can increase their durability (i.e. ignoring all 1s, 2s, and 3s to Wound them, for example) and Chaplain Litanies that can increase their offensive output (i.e. making them +1 to Hit for all shooting).

 

That's not strong or sleeper, that's absolutely broken.

 

Old grudges is by far the best warlord trait in the guard codex (a very strong codex) and that both only rerolls wounds and has to be taken on your warlord. If the Seal of Oath doesn't get changed heavily in an FAQ that's a really bad sign for game health (I'm sure we all remember the mess they made of 7th with that sort of creep).

 

Wow who wrote that?

[Captain Idaho]

It's only one unit. It's not broken if you don't take an army hinging around a single unit.

 

Which is the point really. This new Codex encourages people to take more Troops to counter 1st charges from White Scars, flexible lists that can compete with Ultramarine flexibility and lists that don't rely on single powerful choices.

[MrZakalwe]

 It's a one relic hard counter to single knight lists, or lists with any superheavies or high value targets, dude.

 

I use Old Grudges quite a bit and trust me when I say it's probably too strong - taking that, making it significantly better and making it a relic? It's an auto include - there will pretty much never be a good reason not to take it.

 

It's the old G-Man buff against a key unit and costs 0 points and 1cp for the extra relic (assuming you already had something else you wanted to spend your free one on).  

Edited August 15, 2019 by MrZakalwe

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I disagree because we already had this with Roboute... so now it’s just one unit as opposed to several such as a couple Fire Raptors parked beside him .

[MrZakalwe]

I disagree because we already had this with Roboute... so now it’s just one unit as opposed to several such as a couple Fire Raptors parked beside him .

 

It's one target unit but otherwise it's the Bobby buff. For 0/1CP.

[Captain Idaho]

I don't think it's broken at all. Eldar get Doom that superior in every way.

 

Regardless of the meta, this means players have to build flexible lists that have a more fluffy, combined arms approach. If they don't then they run the risk of this relic and Doom etc.

 

The thing is, without this, often Marines players have to resort to a Smash Captain or they get stomped on. So now Marines have a counter.

[MrZakalwe]

Doom is a psychic power that needs to be in range of the target, needs to be successfully cast (and with warpcharge 7 and often no bonuses this is far from automatic), then needs to not be denied and even after all of that unreliability it still doesn't reroll hits. Doom is worse in all ways but one- it isn't tied to a single target.

 

I'm not theory crafting this, I use Old Grudges every single game as my Guard because it's an incredibly powerful warlord trait (possibly too strong) and this is better in every way.

 

Don't be unhappy that you have this broken relic, enjoy it like I enjoy Relic of Lost Cadia (which is in the same category of 'seriously what the *fornication*  GW?' relics but much more situational) but at least be honest about how good it is.

 

The situation it excels in is 'enemy has a powerful unit that you want to kill more easily' - it's good enough and cheap enough that it would be a good investment of 1cp even if the enemy's biggest threat unit was a mob of 30 boyz.

Edited August 15, 2019 by MrZakalwe

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Doom goes off more often than not then they jinx the target unit and guide their Reapers. Run along.

[MrZakalwe]

OK man It's not broken at all

 

You certainly wont be abusing it after release, right? :lol: 

[Captain Idaho]

Oh I'm not unhappy. I'll take it and have a better chance against Knight cheese that have been trouncing my flexible, combined arms list.

 

The reason it's more obnoxious an ability in Eldar and Astra Millitarum armies is because of the sheer firepower those armies have. Marines now have teeth but still die easily against such firepower and don't have the numbers to combat it.

 

Besides that, the cheesiest Ultramarines list won't need this relic since they will be Grav maxed and full of Centurions.

 

***

 

Clarification - don't get me wrong. If it's broken then I'll be the first person to leave it behind. I never take stuff that I feel is unfair even in tournaments because I like to have fun first and win second.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Captain Idaho