Ishagu Posted August 16, 2019 Author Share Posted August 16, 2019 (edited) Yeah I can't wait to play it. Lots more infantry, great firepower. I just can't see how Guilliman makes it better if I give up multiple deepstriking units and a Contemptor for a durable but slow character. I knew Guilliman would be affected, and I didn't expect him to be an auto take but I fear he might actually be making lists worse. Edited August 16, 2019 by Ishagu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyterran Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 Does a Sicaran have the Predator, Land Raider, Whirlwind, Hunter, Stalker, Rhino, or Razorback keyword? It's been a while, but if it doesn't have one of those he can't drive it. Cruor Vault 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 16, 2019 Author Share Posted August 16, 2019 (edited) He can drive it in the new codex, from what people with the book are saying? It could be wrong of course. Edited August 16, 2019 by Ishagu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joukernaut Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 (edited) Can chronus ride forgeworld units? (beaten to it, apparently I'm a slow typer) Looks like a very fun list to play, nice and diverse. I have quite a few primaris laying around on sprue, but haven't really gotten the bug until now. I must say I have been thinking about some very fun primaris lists, so I might start to look into it. The models look great, especially as an army. I too suspect Gillian is demoted to fun games instead of competitive play. If you want to use Guilliman now, you have to push his offensive melee abilities or he's a waste of points, and probably need to support him with other melee or close ranged units that like to push forward. Edited August 16, 2019 by Joukernaut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 16, 2019 Author Share Posted August 16, 2019 (edited) That's perfectly fine, but the issue is that he's quite slow and can't assault jets, and he can't fly or enter ruins. He was amazing as a defensive aura character but as an active assault unit? A 90 point character potentially does it better. He's now stuck in that middle ground that the best units don't inhabit. If I want defensive aura boosters Calgar and a trusty LT do the same job for less, and are mandatory HQs. Aaaanyways. I'll be trying both lists soon. Can't wait to put the new Tiggy on the table. *Edit* the list on the previous page has been amended. Edited August 16, 2019 by Ishagu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 I believe you need the keywords listed above by crazyterran. Be nice if he can get into a Sicarian Punisher mind. @ Prot: Let us know how the battle goes. I want to know how the Centurions do in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyterran Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 I checked the review video here: https://youtu.be/-xwCfrDP3Dw?t=517 It's the Keywords I listed above, sadly. Some people reviewing can't read, I guess. Ishagu 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 I really like this new list Ishagu. I’d like to see Tiggy though. Prot 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 24, 2019 Author Share Posted August 24, 2019 (edited) I've got my first game with the new codex comin up. If you were my opponent, which of these lists would you be more worried about? First List: HQ: -Primaris Chief Librarian Tigurius -Sgt Chronus, Whirlwind, Vengeance Launcher Troops: -10 Intercessors, Bolt Rifles, Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Sgt with Power Sword -10 Intercessors, Bolt Rifles, Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Sgt with Power Sword -5 Infiltrators -5 Infiltrators Elites: -5 Aggressors, Flamestorm Gauntlets Heavy Support: -Repulsor Executioner, Heave Laser Destroyer, Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Ironhail Heavy Stubber, Icarus Rocket Pod Dedicated Transport -Repulsor, Twin Lascannon, Las Talon, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Ironhail Heavy, Stubber, Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod Lord of War: -Roboute Guilliman, Warlord, Nobility made manifest --- Second List: HQ: -Marneus Calgar in Armour of Heracles -Primaris Lieutenant, Burning Blade -Sgt Chronus, Whirlwind Scorpius, Extra warlord trait Troops: -10 Intercessors, Bolt Rifles, Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Sgt with Power Fist -10 Intercessors, Bolt Rifles, Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Sgt with Power Fist -5 Infiltrators -5 Infiltrators Elites: -5 Aggressors, Flamestorm Gauntlets -2 Victrix Honour Guard Heavy Support: -Repulsor Executioner, Heave Laser Destroyer, Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Ironhail Heavy Stubber, Icarus Rocket Pod Dedicated Transport -Repulsor, Twin Lascannon, Las Talon, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Ironhail Heavy, Stubber, Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod Basically the difference is Guilliman. In the first list the Primarch is included as an offensive aura provider. In the second list he's dropped in favour of Calgar and an Lt, and the extra points allow for better weapons on the Intercessors, upgrading the Whirlwind to a Scorpius (This is substantial) and adding a pait of Victric Guard to add defence to the characters. On the other hand, because Guilliman provdes the auras fro both a Chapter Master and an Lt I was able to include Tiggy in thje first list, and he has some very helpful abilities. Edited August 24, 2019 by Ishagu Emicus 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L30n1d4s Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 (edited) @Ishagu, Some pretty neat lists here, I look forward to hearing how they perform for you! As for which I would fear the most, I would go with the second one, with the following caveat: I would seriously consider dropping the two extra Ironhail Heavy Stubbers on your Repulsors (12pts), dropping the two Auxiliary Grenade Launchers on your Intercessors (2 pts), swapping your Lieutenant's Power Sword for a Chainsword (4 pts; NOTE: You can take the Teeth of Terra Relic instead of the Burning Blade, which is arguably better in a lot of situations, if you still want to keep the Lieutenant as a close combat beast), and dropping the Victrix HG (60 pts). That gives you back 78 points, which is just enough to take a Primaris Chaplain. He can footslog with your Captain/Lieutenant, or catch a ride in the Repulsor Executioner. Give him the "Seal of Oath" Relic and the Litany for +1 to Wound for a unit within 6" that is shooting against the nearest target. Taken together with Tactical Doctrine on the Aggressors, this gives them 20D6 S4 AP-1 auto-hitting shots if they get in range of the their Flamestorm Gauntlets. That means an average of 70 hits.... if you select a powerful unit, like say a large squad of enemy Vertus Praetors, for the "target" of the "Seal of Oath" Relic and successfully cast the +1 to Wound Litany on them, then the Aggressors average 52-53 AP-1 wounds against the Vertus Praetors, which in turn gives you an average of 17-18 Unsaved Wounds and 4-5 dead Custodes Bikers (without the buff from "Seal of Oath" and the Chaplain's Litany, you only average 7-8 Unsaved Wounds, or about 2 dead Custodes Bikers). Similarly, against an Imperial Knight, the Aggressors get 70 hits, about 35 wounds, and 17-18 damage inflicted (without the buffs, the Aggressors average only 5-6 damage against the same T8 3+ save Knight)... and all of this is just from shooting, before the Aggressors even get a chance to charge in with their Power Fists. Bottom Line, the reason I recommend you considering dropping the Victrix HG and a few upgrades to get a Chaplain is that he provides so much "force multiplier" capacity in the form of his Litanies (I think the +1 to Dmg rolls is generally the best, but you can choose other ones as well, based on who you are fighting). Additionally, I think the value of the "Seal of Oath" relic kind of speaks for itself and gives you the ability to deal with a key/flagship enemy unit (remember, it effects anything within 6" of the bearer, so you can use it to buff the Repulsor Executioner, Intercessors with the "Rapid Fire" Stratagem activated, etc. etc.). NOTE: The way you would get a 4th HQ into your list (Battalions only allow 3 HQs) is to use him as the HQ choice for a Patrol Detachment, and then take your 4th Troop choice and use it for the mandatory Troops slot in the Patrol detachment. This way, you still get your Battalion and full 10 CPs (3 Battle-forged +2 Marneus Calgar + 5 Battalion) with no issues. Edited August 24, 2019 by L30n1d4s Ishagu 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 Great suggestion there Leo...but one minor problem. Lts can't take chainswords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 I think the Burning Blade is wasted on a Lt. Its way better suited for a Gravis Captain or a Chapter Champion. Also a Chaplain could be super buffed as well into a new 'smash captain'. All 3 of them can become melee monsters that no one would see coming just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 I think the Burning Blade is wasted on a Lt. Its way better suited for a Gravis Captain or a Chapter Champion. Also a Chaplain could be super buffed as well into a new 'smash captain'. All 3 of them can become melee monsters that no one would see coming just yet. Not really a waste if it's the only eligible unit that can take one, and even then it's still a WS 2+ character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L30n1d4s Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 Good point, forgot about the Lieutenant's Wargear options! An alternate method of doing this is dropping the Victrix HG (60 pts), the two Auxiliary GLs (2 pts), and swapping a squad of 5 Infiltrators out for 5 Incursors (this saves you 15 pts) --- net, that gives you back 77 points, which is exactly enough for the Primaris Chaplain (and you get to keep the Ironhail Heavy Stubbers). In terms of taking Incursors in place of Infiltrators, you lose out on the option for Helix Adept/Comms Array and also the Omni-Scrambler DS deny (a big deal, I'll admit!), but you gain a very useful shooting that Ignores Cover and any kind of Negative Modifiers, which makes it great for knocking off those cheap "objective campers" in cover mid-late game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 I think the Burning Blade is wasted on a Lt. Its way better suited for a Gravis Captain or a Chapter Champion. Also a Chaplain could be super buffed as well into a new 'smash captain'. All 3 of them can become melee monsters that no one would see coming just yet. Not really a waste if it's the only eligible unit that can take one, and even then it's still a WS 2+ character. The Seal of Oath is pretty essential to competitive play in general so that would be a better choice than the Burning Blade. I'm there with the Chaplain. It's a solid choice. BLACK BLΠFLY 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 There a melee relic the Lt can take for some AP goodness now. I like both these new lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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