New Blood Angel Rules

[Aothaine]

Blood Angel Rules Update

 

Enjoy!

 

 

[Panzer]

Well, looks like we don't get the Chaplain Litanies. Bummer.
It also looks like we didn't get any of the point adjustments? No cheaper Reiver and no more expensive thunderhammers on characters? That one is kinda weird.

[Maxamato]

Yeah because BA Reivers are stonger than Codex Marines ones :D

[aquamarine]

Having more than we did is obviously a positive, though I'm puzzled as to our not getting Litanies and Combat Doctrines yet.

 

Maybe they thought if we had to much of the new stuff now the codex would not be as anticipated when it comes out.

 

I also thought the new codex for BA, DA, SW et al. would now be a codex supplement like for Ultras and Scars but this makes it seem more that we will still be getting standalone codexes as before.

[Aothaine]

I also thought the new codex for BA, DA, SW et al. would now be a codex supplement like for Ultras and Scars but this makes it seem more that we will still be getting standalone codexes as before.

 

Somewhat understandable as these three chapters have so many unique units already. Could be why they are stand alone?

[Brother Tyler]

It could be that they'll be getting the codex supplement treatment later, after the other Chapters [that are covered under the current/soon to be obsolete Codex: Space Marines] get their supplements. Since the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves have their own codices, GW might be letting them use those for now, modified by today's batch of updates/errata.

[Spagunk]

Having some sort of combat doctrine that's tailored for BA would be super. Probably won't happen unless a new codex or suppliment comes out.

 

Speaking of, we need more imperium nihilis fluff. A lot of guard and Marines are stuck across the border and would be cool to see what happens. Can you say "crusade of the blood"?

Edited August 16, 2019 by Spagunk

[t-dog1996]

What I find hilarious is that, following the update, Slamguinius not only remains miles ahead of every other flavour of Smash Captain, but is now also 19 points cheaper!

[Panzer]

I guess not getting the Chaplain Litanies means there's a good chance that GW is going for the unique Chaplain unit angle again like they did with the BA supplement late 7th. Means DC Chaplains for us. Probably also something special for Interrogator Chaplains and Wolf Priests. No comment on GK as it seems like GW is either not interested in giving them anything or they've planned something big they aren't willing to reveal just yet (my guess is the latter).

And if that's the case and we also get something else in place of Combat Doctrines .... I think we can look forward to becoming fairly unique and less vanilla in the future. :)

 

Yeah because BA Reivers are stonger than Codex Marines ones

Can you really still say that now that vanilla Reivers get AP-1 melee attacks and AP-2 pistols turn 3+? 

 

Having more than we did is obviously a positive, though I'm puzzled as to our not getting Litanies and Combat Doctrines yet.

 

Maybe they thought if we had to much of the new stuff now the codex would not be as anticipated when it comes out.

 

I also thought the new codex for BA, DA, SW et al. would now be a codex supplement like for Ultras and Scars but this makes it seem more that we will still be getting standalone codexes as before.

 

After the WarCom articles it was pretty clear that we won't get just a supplement book like UM and WS and no Combat Doctrines either.

[aquamarine]

Unless when the time comes it'll be a case of 'now you must buy Codex:SM and the BA supplement' though as said the latter would need a fair few supplementary unique datasheets. It's possible, though, and would be a neater way to do every single Marine codex from now on

[Panzer]

Unless when the time comes it'll be a case of 'now you must buy Codex:SM and the BA supplement' though as said the latter would need a fair few supplementary unique datasheets. It's possible, though, and would be a neater way to do every single Marine codex from now on

Not saying that such a treatment wouldn't have been possible. Just that GW apparently doesn't plan to do something like that and that it was already relatively obvious with what they've written in their WarCom articles.

[keeblerartillery]

Guys, look at the headline for our rules errata. GW titled it non-codex compliant chapters. They aren’t going to give a codex supplement for non-codex compliant chapters. I know a lot of people are either hopeful or pessimistic for it, but it simply isn’t happening.

[Closet Skeleton]

What I find hilarious is that, following the update, Slamguinius not only remains miles ahead of every other flavour of Smash Captain, but is now also 19 points cheaper!

 

He's not. White Scars Champion of Humanity Smash Captains are harder to get in position but way more powerful than anything BA have.

[aquamarine]

Guys, look at the headline for our rules errata. GW titled it non-codex compliant chapters. They aren’t going to give a codex supplement for non-codex compliant chapters. I know a lot of people are either hopeful or pessimistic for it, but it simply isn’t happening.

 

Well...it's 'Codex: Space Marines', not 'Codex: Codex-compliant chapters'. And BAs and DAs both existed as codex supplements in the past, back in 4th edition. So not unprecedented.

 

That said, I think the balance of evidence from yourself and others convinces me you're right and this was a possible road not travelled.

 

Nice update though. Happy to get Shock Assault alone and can't wait to try a game with it in place. In the past GW would have made us wait for our next codex for all this.

[keeblerartillery]

Well...it's 'Codex: Space Marines', not 'Codex: Codex-compliant chapters'. And BAs and DAs both existed as codex supplements in the past, back in 4th edition. So not unprecedented.

I will direct you to the first paragraph of the announcement -

 

Like Space Marines but don’t much care for the teachings of the Codex Astartes?* Well, brace yourself, as thanks to the efforts of the Warhammer 40,000 team, your Chapter of choice is about to be rewarded with loads of new units and many of the awesome rules featured in Codex: Space Marines as part of an official errata! Let’s take a look at some of the highlights…

 

From GWs foxhole, they are one and the same. Look at who they released it for as well - BA, DA, SW...and that’s it. Not crimson fists. Not raven guard. Not black Templars. The same folks whom have had their own ‘dex and been considered non-compliant for ages. I don’t understand people’s use of 4 editions ago as some kind of guidepost for their theories when the evidence of GWs actual plan is literally in plain sight.

[aquamarine]

I was just discussing my thoughts, and had already stated you and others had convinced me you were correct and I was wrong.

[SnorriSnorrison]

 

Well...it's 'Codex: Space Marines', not 'Codex: Codex-compliant chapters'. And BAs and DAs both existed as codex supplements in the past, back in 4th edition. So not unprecedented.

I will direct you to the first paragraph of the announcement -

 

Like Space Marines but don’t much care for the teachings of the Codex Astartes?* Well, brace yourself, as thanks to the efforts of the Warhammer 40,000 team, your Chapter of choice is about to be rewarded with loads of new units and many of the awesome rules featured in Codex: Space Marines as part of an official errata! Let’s take a look at some of the highlights…

 

From GWs foxhole, they are one and the same. Look at who they released it for as well - BA, DA, SW...and that’s it. Not crimson fists. Not raven guard. Not black Templars. The same folks whom have had their own ‘dex and been considered non-compliant for ages. I don’t understand people’s use of 4 editions ago as some kind of guidepost for their theories when the evidence of GWs actual plan is literally in plain sight.

It’s actually weird how Black Templars are codex-compliant now though. They don’t have devastators, they don’t use regular squads, they don’t even have companies. Don’t know how much of the fluff has been ret-conned, but Black Templars are about as much a codex chapter as the Space Wolves are. In comparison to those two, we are basically Ultramarines.

[Panzer]

 

 

Well...it's 'Codex: Space Marines', not 'Codex: Codex-compliant chapters'. And BAs and DAs both existed as codex supplements in the past, back in 4th edition. So not unprecedented.

I will direct you to the first paragraph of the announcement -

 

Like Space Marines but don’t much care for the teachings of the Codex Astartes?* Well, brace yourself, as thanks to the efforts of the Warhammer 40,000 team, your Chapter of choice is about to be rewarded with loads of new units and many of the awesome rules featured in Codex: Space Marines as part of an official errata! Let’s take a look at some of the highlights…

 

From GWs foxhole, they are one and the same. Look at who they released it for as well - BA, DA, SW...and that’s it. Not crimson fists. Not raven guard. Not black Templars. The same folks whom have had their own ‘dex and been considered non-compliant for ages. I don’t understand people’s use of 4 editions ago as some kind of guidepost for their theories when the evidence of GWs actual plan is literally in plain sight.

It’s actually weird how Black Templars are codex-compliant now though. They don’t have devastators, they don’t use regular squads, they don’t even have companies. Don’t know how much of the fluff has been ret-conned, but Black Templars are about as much a codex chapter as the Space Wolves are. In comparison to those two, we are basically Ultramarines.

 

 

Well there was the rumour about Black Templars getting their stuff via a campaign book and not in a supplement like UM and WS got. Might be true after all, who knows.

[t-dog1996]

 

What I find hilarious is that, following the update, Slamguinius not only remains miles ahead of every other flavour of Smash Captain, but is now also 19 points cheaper!

 

 

He's not. White Scars Champion of Humanity Smash Captains are harder to get in position but way more powerful than anything BA have.

How so?

[Closet Skeleton]

 

 

What I find hilarious is that, following the update, Slamguinius not only remains miles ahead of every other flavour of Smash Captain, but is now also 19 points cheaper!

 

He's not. White Scars Champion of Humanity Smash Captains are harder to get in position but way more powerful than anything BA have.

How so?

 

BA still have the edge on killing eldar flyers but white scars can get:

 

+1 to hit and wound and attack against characters, +1 damage and ap from assault doctrine, +1 damage from master crafted, +1 strength and attacks from might of heroes.

 

That's 7 2+ to hit 2+ to wound damage 5 -4 AP thunder hammer attacks against character knights. With a nearby lieutenant that's 25 damage unless you're really unlucky and you don't have to spend a single CP. White Scars can also negate overwatch with a psychic power.

 

Non white scars are basically just missing the extra point of damage which isn't that likely to be on anyway due to the turn 3 limitation, so they'll still need those CPs to crush a knight.

 

BA smash captains were already actually pretty poor compared to Space Wolf ones before the CP investment.

[t-dog1996]

 

 

 

What I find hilarious is that, following the update, Slamguinius not only remains miles ahead of every other flavour of Smash Captain, but is now also 19 points cheaper!

 

 

He's not. White Scars Champion of Humanity Smash Captains are harder to get in position but way more powerful than anything BA have.

How so?

BA still have the edge on killing eldar flyers but white scars can get:

 

+1 to hit and wound and attack against characters, +1 damage and ap from assault doctrine, +1 damage from master crafted, +1 strength and attacks from might of heroes.

 

That's 7 2+ to hit 2+ to wound damage 5 -4 AP thunder hammer attacks against character knights. With a nearby lieutenant that's 25 damage unless you're really unlucky and you don't have to spend a single CP. White Scars can also negate overwatch with a psychic power.

 

Non white scars are basically just missing the extra point of damage which isn't that likely to be on anyway due to the turn 3 limitation, so they'll still need those CPs to crush a knight.

 

BA smash captains were already actually pretty poor compared to Space Wolf ones before the CP investment.

There are an awful lot of ifs in there. Relying on the assault doctrine for something that dangerous is foolish; if you’re opponent knows what they are doing they will have killed it by turn 3. You need to cause as much damage as possible in turns 1-2. Smash Khans can get +1 to hit and wound specifically against characters if they use the warlord trait slot for that. Blood Angels get +1 to wound as standard against everything. White Scars don’t have anything to match the DVOS/Forlorn Fury/Angel’s Wing combo.

 

Also you’re relying on 2 psychic powers there. I’d rather rely on the guarantee of stratagems than the chance of a psychic power going off. Disregarding the CP investment is silly because the whole point of CPs is to put together match-winning combos. With Slamguinius you can pile repeated buffs from stratagems that allow him to take on literally anything and kill it, guaranteed, on turn 1. You admit that Slam’s positioning is superior like it’s nothing but really it’s everything.

 

If you do Slam properly then there’s no way for your opponent to stop him from reaching his target. Whether it’s a Knight, a Baneblade or a Primarch he can do it on turn 1 no questions asked.

[Panzer]

It's not the first time a character has more or similar damage potential. What makes our Smash Captain so good is the reliability and added utility of instant re-positioning, FLY and re-rollable 3d6 charges.

Edited August 17, 2019 by sfPanzer

[Pathstrider]

I’m guessing they’re saving points adjustments to chapter approved.

[pandion40]

It’s actually weird how Black Templars are codex-compliant now though. They don’t have devastators, they don’t use regular squads, they don’t even have companies. Don’t know how much of the fluff has been ret-conned, but Black Templars are about as much a codex chapter as the Space Wolves are. In comparison to those two, we are basically Ultramarines.

I don’t think using in game logic to say who should get their own codex is helpful for predicting who’ll get one. My guess is it’s based purely on popularity, they can easily give us enough divergence to justify it but in my opinion we’ve got our own codex and the Templar’s don’t because we’re more popular. Out of the non codex chapters I’d guess the wolves are most popular then us then the DA, I’d say Templar’s are a distant fourth. GW tried making another chapter popular enough to have their own codex so they retconed the minimal pre existing Templar lore and created the current Templar’s They were everywhere for a few years but I guess they didn’t catch on quite enough so were folded back into the standard codex.

 

I’m glad it looks like we’re getting our own codex, a supplement would probably be quicker and easier and could do at least as good a job as our last few codexes, but the long term dangers of us suffering the Templar fate if supplements are gotten rid of in a few years worries me. Plus I want some more ambition from our next codex, I want us to play really differently than standard marines. Probably same models but different rules and maybe equipment. I want them to use the fact that we’re stuck in the Dark imperium isolated from Terra, the old lore of us being codex marines with a slight Melee fetish is slowly going, Primaris are here and are almost certainly the future and I’d like them to make us something more interesting than codex 2.0 marines with a slight Melee fetish. I feel our own codex is a far better place for that than a supplement.

 

For me it’s the way Blood Angels differ from other marines that I love. The Rage and Thirst, the ornate armour and weapons, the long lives, the fact we experience the memories of our primarch and that our appearance reflects the beauty of our Primarch. Plus the pain and sorrow that is at the heart of the Rage.

 

If their going to do a by the numbers conversion of the standard dex to make it a little more our flavour then we may as well be a supplement and reap the benefits of quicker updates.

[Bonzi]

It may not be news to anyone else but I was pleasantly surprised to see Incursors get paired combat knives for exploding sixes rather than the regular knives Reivers get. With Phobos Libby's having access to BA powers that opens up some really strong potential with Unleash Rage.

 

3 attacks base, +1 for shock assault, and a potential +1 from a Libby or Sanguinor stacked with exploding sixes is pretty decent.