Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Indomintus Discipline

Ultramarines Psychic Powers 8th edition Tactics and strategy

  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1
Captain Idaho

Captain Idaho

    ++ ARGENTARIUS IRACUNDUS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 16,652 posts
  • Location:Hampshire, England
  • Faction: Ultramarines
This is the first in a series of discussions on various new elements around Ultramarines armies on the table top.

This thread will focus on the Indomintus Discipline and its use within an Ultramarines army.

***

My initial observations are that it is not too bad, despite many saying the White Scars one is better. The powers are quite effective but the biggest weakness is the higher casting value that Ultramarines require on their powers will often mean a single Librarian is much more limited using the Indomintus Discipline over the Librarius Discipline, for example.

1) Procognition - A nice way to keep a Psyker alive especially if Primaris (without access to Terminator armour) but really it's not going to change much since the character rule should protect you and Librarians aren't always at their best in the thick of it anyway.

If you take a Librarian in Terminator armour you'll already have a 2+ save and invulnerable anyway so this power will usually end up less useful than one of the others plus Smite.

2) Scryer's Gaze is a nice way of earning back a Command Point (CPs) after you've burnt them all early game, especially if you roll badly and can't refund the usage of CPs (like me). It's also a nice way to boost one shot weapons when you can't gain a CP due to Tactical Restraint, as it saves a CP on them anyway. Warp Charge 7 is quite difficult to get off reliably so don't rely on it to regenerate a CP every turn.

I would say this is an auto include power any game without two Battalions or less than 10 CPs. If I could fit two battalions into a list I might look elsewhere.

3) Telepathic Assault is again a more difficult power to get off but this is because it is so powerful. +2 to a Leadership test and the failure margin is the amount of Mortal Wounds, will be very powerful to many models in the game of course, but the real benefit here is the ability to select a model within line of sight up to 24" away. That is BIG! Character assassination and unit targeting is a powerful option and even Eldar flyers are are risk if you roll well.

I want this just for the threat of it and combining it with Smite to make a killer Librarian combination if you can get it off. Terminator Librarians can drop in and provide their Terminator brethren much support here with a decent amount of Mortal Wounds generation, as can Drop Pod troops benefit from an accompanying Librarian.

The range plays well for all Librarians who can remain with your army and still contribute attacks quite some distance away. It pairs well with other range 24" attacks your army might have, when considering unit interplay.

Lastly is the capacity to utilise this power alongside leadership reducing effects. Although not always useful since most Leadership reducing abilities Ultramarines have access to are close ranged, a Librarian supporting such elements will be able to put considerable damage on targets.

Just pray for double six!

4) Storm of the Emperor's Wrath - To be honest this is a bit duff. Relying on a 6 to Mortal Wound something is average at best and all bar pointless against anything less than 10 models strong, even if you can select your target. This is a hard pass from me.

5) Psychic Shackles is a potentially game winning power at a modest Warp Charge cost of just 6. Being able to slow down a select model at 18" in the movement and charge phases will be frustrating for just about anyone. Use it wisely to force a horde to crawl towards you, or pick out their support characters to force the opponent to choose between getting further up the board and losing the benefits of said characters or risk a staggered attack and chaining behind to remain in combat.

Just as a reminder how good this could be, imagine a Land Raider moving 5" a turn, or even a Knight moving 6".

Combinations with Thunderfire Cannons seems possible but the capacity to slow an entire enemy force to a crawl speaks volumes to the tricks and frustration you can play on people.

A solid choice.

6) Empyric Channelling is a reasonable power if you're taking 2 or more Psykers and is something to consider. Tigurius in particular can get +3 to a Psychic Test which could even see more Smites going off on a D6.

Absolutely worthless on a loan Librarian, this is a power you go for when you want to play the psychic game with multiple models.

A force multiplier is very fitting for Ultramarines and as such this power has its place.

Summary

Overall a reasonable bunch of powers with only 1 and 4 being powers I doubt many people will bother with when the others are so much better. 6 will be in some armies and not others which is fine depending on your approach.

For me, the stand out choices are 2, 3 and 5. The Tome of Malcador could find its way into a few lists for that very reason.

Ultramarines benefit greatly from these 3 powers, since choosing your target is great, generating a CP or saving one for a Damage roll is also amazing and slowing down the enemy whilst we keep the pressure up under the Tactical Doctrine is critical.

Unfortunately as I mentioned before, 2 of the best powers being Warp Charge 7 is going to be difficult to get off by any lone Librarian aside from Tigurius so this has to be kept in your mind when considering your requirements.

***

Does anyone have any suggestions, comments or just down right amazing ideas to combine this psychic discipline with units and abilities? Feel free to disagree with my analysis. If all the powers have a place I'm happy to be proven wrong as this Codex and supplement is great fun.

Courage and honour.

Edited by Captain Idaho, 19 August 2019 - 03:09 PM.
Great additions suggestion

  • MrZakalwe likes this

#2
Subtleknife

Subtleknife

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 420 posts
Can you combine telepathic assault with any leadership bombs to maximise the amount of mortal wounds that you do.
  • Captain Idaho likes this

#3
Captain Idaho

Captain Idaho

    ++ ARGENTARIUS IRACUNDUS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 16,652 posts
  • Location:Hampshire, England
  • Faction: Ultramarines
You certainly can and this is something I probably should have included in the OP. I might add it.

This makes a combination of Reivers and/or the Codex Space Marines Warlord Trait with Telepathic Assault to be something quite dangerous.
  • Subtleknife likes this

#4
Kallas

Kallas

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,077 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh, UK
  • Faction: Howling Griffons

I think the most effective Ld Bomb Marines can do is the following:

  • Reiver Phobos Lieutenant (Heavy Bolt Pistol and Combat Knife to gain the Terror Troops rule; -1 Ld within 3")
  • Vox Espiritum Relic (+3" range to all aura abilities for a Primaris model)
  • Fear Made Manifest Warlord Trait (6" aura of -1 Ld; doesn't need to be your true Warlord, thanks to the Hero of the Chapter Stratagem)
  • Successor Chapter Trait: Fearsome Aspect (-1 Ld wthin 3")
  • Phobos Librarian with Hallucination and Temporal Corridor (Hallucination imposes -1 Ld on a target; Temporal Corridor catapults the Lt upfield)
  • Inspiring Command Stratagem (UM; +3" to aura ability ranges for a Chapter Master, Captain or Lieutenant)

So, that Lieutenant can (for 3CP) get slung upfield 12+1d6+(3d6 drop two lowest)" (Move/Advance and Temporal Corridor) with:

  • -1 Ld within 12" (Fear Made Manifest: 6" base +3 from Vox Espiritum +3 from Inspiring Command)
  • -2 Ld within 9" (Terror Troops/Fearsome Aspect: 3" base +3 from Vox Espiritum +3 from Inspiring Command)
  • -1 Ld to one unit (Hallucination: -Ld effect always applies if manifested; the -1 to hit is rolled for)

Honestly, Leadership bombs are crap. They require too many moving parts, or too many resources. Sure, it'd be funny to drop Magnus the Red's Ld down to 6 on a whim, and then cause an average of 3 Mortal Wounds to him (or a maximum of 8); or more realistically, dropping an opponent's Smash Captain-type unit down to Ld 5 and inflicting an average of 4 MW with a good chance of outright killing them.

 

But really, I feel like futzing about with Ld shenanigans is more likely to just cost you mental resources and take away from a more solid strategy. Telepathic Assault is a fine power, but I'd personally rate it as 3.5/4:

  1. Psychic Shackles - Personally, I feel this is the best. It's WC6, which is reasonable, and the effect of slowing down movement is huge. Importantly, this can affect FLY and TITANIC units, where the TFC's Tremor Shells cannot, and Obscuration's Tenebrous Curse cannot affect FLY. In concert with a TFC and/or Tenebrous Curse, this is incredibly powerful.
  2. Scryer's Gaze - I think this is more universally applicable than Psychic Shackles, as its utility is not based on the opponent's mobility, but its impact is more subtle and harder to quantify directly (How useful is a reroll? Did the reroll actually pass? Etc) Getting CP back is huge. Importantly, it's not dependent on you or your opponent actually having and spending CP - you can claw your way back from 0CP with this power. That alone is damn useful - need an important 1CP Stratagem in your shooting phase, but you're out? Boom, Scryer's Gaze.
  3. Telepathic Assault - This is a decent tool of a damage power. The ability to choose the target and having a solid range is good. It's not all that useful for character sniping, given that most characters are Ld8+ (so 1 or less MW on average) but it has potential to scare them. One high roll against someone's lynchpin character (eg, an Ancient or Apothecary) and they're going to be suddenly more squeamish about leaving their other characters in range/LOS. Likely best used to trim down low/mid Ld support units (eg, Imperial Guard Heavy Weapons Squads).
  4. Empyric Channelling - This is, if one is using multiple Psykers, very useful. If not, then it's not even slightly useful! +2 to Cast for the rest of the phase. It's not for one power, it's for all of them (after this is cast). Smite's supersmiting on a 9+ (8+ for Tiggy) is potent, but casting other good powers more reliably (and harder to Deny) is equally useful: Null Zone has always been unreliable, and even at WC7 it's going to remain unreliable (due to the proximity required) - but being able to cast it on a 5+ means it's more likely to actually happen in those clutch moments.
  5. Storm of the Emperor's Wrath - Generally, it's going to be crap, but against armies with large units (eg, Genestealers; Ork Boyz, etc) then it has some value. But really, any abilities that require 6s to have any impact are pretty much garbage.
  6. Precognition - This is lower down than SotEW for me because it comes with additional opportunity cost. As Idaho has mentioned in the OP, this is kind of nice but given that there are now numerous other options that are much, much more useful in many, many more situations, this one is going to fall to the wayside a lot. Librarians are a midfield unit - they don't want to get in too close, because they will get swatted by actual melee units, but in the midfield they can Smite and shoot just fine, and then they can jump in to combat against non-melee units which they should be able to bully. -1 to hit and a 5++ isn't going to keep them safe from anything legitimately dangerous. Taking this over Psychic Shackles or Scryer's Gaze is a huge ask.

 

 

Edit:

To expand on why I like Psychic Shackles so much:

 

Psychic Shackles on a regular Librarian; Tenebrous Curse on a Phobos Librarian; and a Thunderfire Cannon all comes out to about 300pts.

 

For 3CP, the TFC can fire Tremor Shells twice (Tremor Shells lasts until the end of the phase: "Until the end of that phase, when resolving an attack made by that model, subtract 1 from the wound roll, but if a hit is scored, the target is shaken in your opponent's next Movement phase. If a unit that cannot FLY and is not Titanic is shaken, halve its Move characteristic and the result of any Advance and charge rolls made for it.")

 

So two units can be affected by Tremor Shells. Then Psychic Shackles and Tenebrous Curse can be applied to those units in addition. Both of these further halve the Move characteristic, with TC also halving the Advance/charge rolls too.

 

If you successfully manifest both powers (they're both WC6) then you have:

  • One unit with 25% Move and 25% Advance/charge rolls
  • One unit with 25% Move and 50% Advance/charge with an additional -1 to the rolls

Assuming, say, Kraken Genestealers, they are moving a measly 2" +2" max Advance (6/2=3; -1 for PS =2"). So that'd be a mighty 6" if they used Opportunistic Advance to double the Advance roll. That's incredibly potent denial capability right there.


Edited by Kallas, 19 August 2019 - 04:29 PM.

  • Captain Idaho likes this

#5
crazyterran

crazyterran

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 664 posts
  • Faction: Ultramarines

I'm definitely going to use Scryer's Gaze + Psychic Shackle. If I want MWs I'll probably just smite things, as my list doesn't have Reivers in it. 



#6
Captain Idaho

Captain Idaho

    ++ ARGENTARIUS IRACUNDUS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 16,652 posts
  • Location:Hampshire, England
  • Faction: Ultramarines
Indeed. I rate the above ranking as accurate. (I didn't list them in effectiveness compared to each other as it obviously depends on what you want out of a power)

#7
Captain Idaho

Captain Idaho

    ++ ARGENTARIUS IRACUNDUS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 16,652 posts
  • Location:Hampshire, England
  • Faction: Ultramarines
I'd like to add that the wording around Adept of the Codex lets us know we can only get a single CP a battle round. Scryer's Gaze doesn't have this so it suggests a change is coming which will further clarify the rule. (Long way off but edition proof)

#8
CCE1981

CCE1981

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 620 posts
  • Faction: Tempestus Griffons
It’s nice that Phobos Librarians can take the Indominus Discipline. Give him Telepathic Assault.

#9
Sagnus

Sagnus

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 55 posts
  • Location:London, England

I'd like to add that the wording around Adept of the Codex lets us know we can only get a single CP a battle round. Scryer's Gaze doesn't have this so it suggests a change is coming which will further clarify the rule. (Long way off but edition proof)


I was thinking this to but checking wording on Tactical Restraint it says you cannot gain or get refunded more than 1 per battle round so currently it's still a big fat no to multiple cp a turn.

#10
Joukernaut

Joukernaut

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 418 posts
That’s a shame. I remember when our codex came out early 8th. I really liked the fact ultramarines had the ability to regain CP. It felt very fluffy for a tactical army like ultra’s. Then everybody got it, even better versions of it and it became a broken mechanic.
  • Subtleknife likes this
 

 


#11
Captain Idaho

Captain Idaho

    ++ ARGENTARIUS IRACUNDUS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 16,652 posts
  • Location:Hampshire, England
  • Faction: Ultramarines
Tactical Restraint hasn't been changed yet but I have a feeling it might be. Or at least Scryer's Gaze will be exempt from it.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Ultramarines, Psychic Powers, 8th edition, Tactics and strategy

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users