Are people aware that chapters outside of the new codex...

[Ishagu]

Can't use any of the new strats in the book?

 

I've seen people on Facebook talk about using the new strats with BA/DA/etc units.

 

The "Legacy of the Primarchs" page outlines thee the rules can't be used for chapters in other publications.

[Xerxus]

I believe that the idea is to bring a Space Marines detachment and apply the stratagems to non-codex Adeptus Astartes units.

[Captain_Krash]

Correct which you can do "legally" I hope it gets FAQ'd though...as it's a little too gamey for my taste.

 

Krash

Edited August 21, 2019 by Captain_Krash

[Race Bannon]

This thread suggests ... no.

 

:P

[domsto]

Yes we know we can't use any of this cool and new Rules.

And i think many players of the unloved 3 Sons will now play their Marines as some Chapter from the Codex.

At least that's what i do with my former Dark Angels.

So i quess that's what they meant in the Facebook groupe 

[Sete]

Unloved? lol

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I think most people are aware they can't,though as mentioned above if you take a marine detachment you have the right keywords to use them. That said it's pretty obvious that eventually we will be able to use most of them. There already was a lot of overlap it's just most of the stratagems were like killshot... so it wasn't relevant.

I haven't looked through the ultra marine supplement yet but the white scar one has encirclement which has the same effect as a space wolf stratagem.

[Ishagu]

I believe that the idea is to bring a Space Marines detachment and apply the stratagems to non-codex Adeptus Astartes units.

The blurb says other chapters cannot make use of the rules.

 

This workaround wouldn't work. We've not had a blurb like this before, as far as I know.

I'm well aware that people take detachments to unlock strats, but it appears that GW is clamping down.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Ishagu

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I'm pretty that rule means that you don't unlock those stratagems without having a codex space marine detachment. Its possible that they are moving away from stratagems working on other forces but if that's the case why wouldn't they just add <chapter> tags on all the stratagems?

 

Regardless I'm assuming a lot of them from the base book will be in the updated codex for the other chapters.

[Ishagu]

It says they can't make use of any of the rules.

 

I don't know how anyone can argue that you can unlock them by taking a detachment. It's very black and white, and it's a change from how it was prior.

[domsto]

Unloved? lol

Well it is pretty obious where GW puts their Favourits and the 3 non Codex Chapters are clearly none of them.

Even if they will get a new Codex they will lack many Rules and Extras

Ultra and so on will actualy have 2 Codex(Marine Codex+Supplement) full with Special Rules,Stratagems,....

[Acebaur]

It says they can't make use of any of the rules.

 

I don't know how anyone can argue that you can unlock them by taking a detachment. It's very black and white, and it's a change from how it was prior.

Agreed, it's cut and dry. There is no wiggle room.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

It says they can't make use of any of the rules.

 

I don't know how anyone can argue that you can unlock them by taking a detachment. It's very black and white, and it's a change from how it was prior.

You haven't read many GW faqs lol.

 

Edit: hopefully that didn't come across as mean but most faq issues are relatively black and white. The funny part is a fair amount of FAQs just change the statement so I wait for GW to say what the meant now that they put up faqs quickly.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Black_Star

[TiguriusX]

As a space wolf we already experienced this stratagem limbo.

 

Here is how it played out for us

 

For 18 ish months GW denied us access to any vanilla stratagems. They tossed us a bone in CA and gave us 2 space wolf specific stratagems but still didnt permit us to use vanilla marine stratagems.

 

When we finally got our codex it was those same basic marine stratagems...it was apparent we were designed and completed with the vanilla codex and the delay had no merit

 

So my advice is expect to get shafted. GW cares more about filling their release schedule than the competitive tournament scene.

 

I hope they shift from thinking they are a model company and embrace this opportunity to get a foot in the door for gaming and possibly esport type coverage and exposure with a strong tournament scene.

 

It is a damn shame Geoff Robinson passed because he was doing his best to push 40k along that path and he was starting to make progress

[Acebaur]

They will never shift their thinking from being a model company. End of story. They generate the vast majority of their profits from the sale of their models and modeling supplies. This will not change until it no longer becomes profitable.

[TiguriusX]

They will never shift their thinking from being a model company. End of story. They generate the vast majority of their profits from the sale of their models and modeling supplies. This will not change until it no longer becomes profitable.

I think my rant missed the mark.

 

GW sales come from models. I agree.

 

But the popularity of the game drives model sales.

 

8th edition is a golden age for 40k. Player participation is through the roof. Tournaments are at all time highs.

 

The health of the hobby is strongly linked to a well balanced tournament community.

 

Model sales flow from that. GW needs to focus more on the health of the competitive scene and speedy balance updates and less on dragging out releases so every month has an item.

 

Competitive gaming crowds are fickle and will leave quickly. The rise and fall of fortnite is one of many examples.

[Marshal Rohr]

A tabletop wargame is not an esport by definition

[ERJAK]

A tabletop wargame is not an esport by definition

Literally no one said it was. He said 'esport like coverage' and 'competitive gaming'.

 

Your 'well acshully...!' Failed.

[Acebaur]

 

They will never shift their thinking from being a model company. End of story. They generate the vast majority of their profits from the sale of their models and modeling supplies. This will not change until it no longer becomes profitable.

I think my rant missed the mark.

 

GW sales come from models. I agree.

 

But the popularity of the game drives model sales.

 

8th edition is a golden age for 40k. Player participation is through the roof. Tournaments are at all time highs.

 

The health of the hobby is strongly linked to a well balanced tournament community.

 

Model sales flow from that. GW needs to focus more on the health of the competitive scene and speedy balance updates and less on dragging out releases so every month has an item.

 

Competitive gaming crowds are fickle and will leave quickly. The rise and fall of fortnite is one of many examples.

 

 

 

Not really. The popularity of the models drives model sales primarily. Having great rules for those models certainly helps, but the competitive scene is not something GW  has an active participation in, compared to say, Corvus Belli with Infinity. If GW's model sales hinged so heavily on tournaments, they wouldn't have abandoned their official tournament rules and events years ago. Point in fact, I'm not super interested in Primaris. I think their lore is terrible and I don't really think I want to field them in my army. But I'll be damned if I don't want that Primaris Chaplain, why? Because he's badass looking. I realize that not everyone is like me. But GW's audience ranges from people who just want to build and paint models to flavor of the month folks with grey plastic armies. 

 

You are right that competitive gamers are fickle which is why GW has no real incentive to try to completely balance the game. It is more profitable to introduce power creep to get the flavor of the month people to buy into whatever the latest and greatest is. 

[Marshal Rohr]

 

A tabletop wargame is not an esport by definition

Literally no one said it was. He said 'esport like coverage' and 'competitive gaming'.

 

Your 'well acshully...!' Failed.

 

 

Let me rephrase: a tabletop wargame isn't as watchable as an esport, which includes realtime or continuous action, like in overwatch or starcraft. Watching a tabletop wargame is like watching a poker game. Poker has many viewers, sure, but less than soccer, basketball, and football. If you want to be combative when someone has a different opinion, go back to Dakka where that is allowed. 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Marshal Rohr

[Dracos]

My primary interest in the game is almost opposite of Acebaur but I have to agree with his analysis. I use to go to GamesDay just for the tournament. Great convention scene in Baltimore and Chicago. I’m sure GW wants a healthy tournament scene and has been quantum levels higher than say in third edition at responding to the community request for changes but at the end of the day anything they do is about selling models. A healthy competitive tournament seem would have all the codex is released at once every new addition and then revise once made all at the same time that way no one was having to play with an out dated codex but that sure wouldn’t help so models at the same level.

 

Addressing the opening post I don’t really see the big deal of letting GW favorite three Marines using what is in the vanilla codex. I assume they’ll get their own Supplements++ at sometime in the near future and I would feel like a fool not letting my friend use them until the new Space Wolf codex supplement came out. Tournaments are different story of course.

[Medjugorje]

 

Unloved? lol

Well it is pretty obious where GW puts their Favourits and the 3 non Codex Chapters are clearly none of them.

Even if they will get a new Codex they will lack many Rules and Extras

Ultra and so on will actualy have 2 Codex(Marine Codex+Supplement) full with Special Rules,Stratagems,....

 

EACH Black Templar player out there would change with you. 

[Brother Tyler]

The basic issue has been addressed and now we're getting into discussion where people can't play nicely with each other.

The basic issue of the topic has been addressed and now we're getting into the time when people can't play nicely with each other for some reason.