Change to Company Veterans Bodyguard Rule

[MeltaRange]

Apparently there was a change to their bodyguard rule and it now works like Savior Protocols, where the model actually intercepts the entire hit for 1 MW.

 

Assuming I'm reading it correctly, what do you think the implications are here? Will you use them and in what capacity?

 

Storm Bolter + Storm Shield is not too expensive and seems good on paper.  I wonder if the successor tactic 'Warded' applies?

[Kallas]

Apparently there was a change to their bodyguard rule and it now works like Savior Protocols, where the model actually intercepts the entire hit for 1 MW.

 

Assuming I'm reading it correctly, what do you think the implications are here?

 

They aren't quite that good but they did change: they now intercept a whole attack, but they take the full damage as mortal wounds to their unit.

 

If they intercept a 1 Damage attack, they take 1 mortal wound; if they intercept a 6 Damage attack, they take 6 mortal wounds - in both cases, the character suffers no damage, regardless of whether the unit can actually afford to suffer the amount of damage they intercepted.

[Disruptor_fe404]

Hah! Had not noticed this. Guess I'll start bubble wrapping my Chaplain Dreadnought with Company Vet MSUs.

 

(this might not actually be good idea)

[Marshal van Trapp]

Hah! Had not noticed this. Guess I'll start bubble wrapping my Chaplain Dreadnought with Company Vet MSUs.

 

(this might not actually be good idea)

This is a bad idea, chaplain dreads do not have enough wounds to be unprotected by the character rule unless they're getting targeted by snipers

[Disruptor_fe404]

He can just run in front of everything, and dare them to shoot him. It's very transparent, and indeed far from a good idea. 

[chapter master 454]

Its still terrible. What makes saviour protocol so greater good good is the fact that the fat-rolling weapons of lascannons and the like can't do jack for squat. Heck, even a volcano cannon shot can't defeat the Mula Flaga drone silliness ("I make the impossible, POSSIBLE!"). Basically, no matter the quality of the firepower, even the 10 damage harpoon of knights will only kill one drone but would in the bodyguard case kill 10 bodyguards (because mortal wounds spread over, remember that, they don't vanish when overkilling). Second to that is the drones actually have a way to overcome the single mortal wound they take, being the 5+++ they have that makes them incredibly hard to kill (and before you say mass fire, the T4 and 4++ means even bolter fire is already going to be below 0.25 damage per shot!). Trust me, it makes them incredible for tanking shots.

And finally, they are only 10 points a go. Yea, they have no offence but when you can buy a unit that can give your riptides the best protection in the game, it can really free you up to unleash hell.

 

Like seriously, the bodyguard rule in marines is a joke. Like...how did your character get hit? In melee? with who? How did they survive the attacks from the character? All those questions make the use of bodyguards extremely questionable and useless. Seriously, there is like 3-4 reasons why saviour protocol is infinitely better than bodyguard. One of which is riptides can't hide and thus need it, our characters don't need that because they take 1 step back like an anime villain, laugh and we cut to a dramatic scene where 10 storm shield marines with thunder hammers in various poses stand in front of the character and our main hero who really wants to be the very best there ever was.

 

However I will comment, the visual of a marine doing a "get down mr. president" is extremely funny! (especially when a lascannon gets 6 damage and somehow wipes 6 bodyguards...despite how if it just landed on the bodyguards raw it wouldn't have).

[Kallas]

Saviour Protocols certainly are stupidly effective. But Marine Bodyguards did get a boost - it's not perfect, and likely never going to rival Shield Drones, but it's something.

[The Unseen]

Master 454, that isn't proving the point that marine bodyguards are bad, it's proving that savior protocol drones are BROKEN, and probably the only reason no one's noticed is that Tau aren't good right now.

Which isn't all that helpful.

Can't wait for them to change that rule, as it's literally the only bodyguard rule in the game that's like that.

Everyone else is like a company vet.

 

But it does make running a very small squad of company vets next to a character slightly more appealing.

[Disruptor_fe404]

Its still terrible. What makes saviour protocol so greater good good is the fact that the fat-rolling weapons of lascannons and the like can't do jack for squat. Heck, even a volcano cannon shot can't defeat the Mula Flaga drone silliness ("I make the impossible, POSSIBLE!"). Basically, no matter the quality of the firepower, even the 10 damage harpoon of knights will only kill one drone but would in the bodyguard case kill 10 bodyguards (because mortal wounds spread over, remember that, they don't vanish when overkilling).

 

I'd like to point out that if you take a unit of 2 Co. Vets, 8 of the 10 mortal wounds would indeed vanish.

[Acebaur]

How about if you have a 5++ against MW like Templars do? Does that change whether you'd use the bodyguard rule on low or single damage attacks?

[chapter master 454]

How about if you have a 5++ against MW like Templars do? Does that change whether you'd use the bodyguard rule on low or single damage attacks?

 

I like how people went for me. I said they were useless for various reasons however here is one guy who actually puts something down that actually DOES change my tune...mainly because I keep far away from black templars as best I can...they can be a little...zealous.

 

The fact you could actually have the bodyguards gain a 5+++ against the mortal wounds taken (which I believe was a buff for BT? wasn't their prior version from psykers only?) certainly would make it a pain in the back-side. Not saying it is perfect and still a long way to go before actually usable in a real way but to be fair, I wouldn't like to have to deal with captain smash and his 10 bodyguards in melee.

 

On the regards to taking 2 of them, yea. Fair enough, you can do that but to be honest at that point your point filling and anything above 70 odd points you would of been better taking eliminators who will do something other than being bodybags.

 

My point stands: Why are you spending points on a defence that doesn't need defence? The only reason I could see the bodyguard rule becoming important is if snipers become god good. Like if your local meta has a player running around with 4 vindicares then go ahead, good answer to that silliness.

 

It is just a case that I am wondering why you would bother with company vets for bodyguards? Like those are the special weapon carriers! Get them some meltas, flamers (with long range marksmen successor trait) or plasma, strap them in the nearest drop pod and heave ho!

 

I will comment one thing however, the version shield drones have should be the gold standard for bodyguard rules however maybe not 2+ to trigger (maybe reduce it for other factions). The reason I say so is it just doesn't make sense mechanically. By standard gameplay, a lascannon can only kill one marine at a time. But somehow, now its to "get down mr. president" they suddenly can all be hit and killed at once. Again, considering how much company vets cost, and considering lore on power armour, the rule should just make it like the tau version.

 

Which does have its caveats, it triggers on the wounding roll succeeding which means you can't chose to first check if you save it first, then retroactively "get down Mr. President", you have to opt for the drone to eat it and hope for the 5+++ to work. Again, it is the fact that the situation that this comes up is so niche and very narrow it has little to no use. I mean, unless you give all the vets a storm shield (and even then) they are relatively easy to remove without needing to make them practice their sideway lunge!

 

Lots of cons with few pros.

And to reiterate: I like the BT idea, would certainly be cute.

[Kallas]

I will comment one thing however, the version shield drones have should be the gold standard for bodyguard rules

 

No, they shouldn't. Shield Drones are too good. No bodyguard ability should be able to absorb infinite amounts of damage with a single 5+++.

[Acebaur]

 

How about if you have a 5++ against MW like Templars do? Does that change whether you'd use the bodyguard rule on low or single damage attacks?

 

I like how people went for me. I said they were useless for various reasons however here is one guy who actually puts something down that actually DOES change my tune...mainly because I keep far away from black templars as best I can...they can be a little...zealous.

 

The fact you could actually have the bodyguards gain a 5+++ against the mortal wounds taken (which I believe was a buff for BT? wasn't their prior version from psykers only?) certainly would make it a pain in the back-side. Not saying it is perfect and still a long way to go before actually usable in a real way but to be fair, I wouldn't like to have to deal with captain smash and his 10 bodyguards in melee.

 

 

 

BT's chapter tactics now give us a 5++ against MW from any source. I think you are thinking of the old Strat that was a 4+ to negate a psychic power.  Wouldn't be something I'd use all the time as with our Sword Brethren Vigilus detachment our company vets want to be chewing through enemies, but in a pinch to save a character from death I think it is worthwhile. 

 

 

 

I will comment one thing however, the version shield drones have should be the gold standard for bodyguard rules

 

No, they shouldn't. Shield Drones are too good. No bodyguard ability should be able to absorb infinite amounts of damage with a single 5+++.

 

 

 

Anyone with an invul can adsorb any amount of damage with a single (whatever your invul is)++

[Kallas]

Anyone with an invul can adsorb any amount of damage with a single (whatever your invul is)++

 

Sure. But there's a difference when you shoot your actual target, and when you shoot your target and something else can just suck the damage away entirely [edit: on top of trying to actually hit/wound the main target]

 

And there are some actual counters to invulnerables - they're rare, but they exist (Null Zone, Death Hex, Jinx).

Edited August 26, 2019 by Kallas

[Panzer]

Honestly bodyguards should just intercept the HIT on a roll of X+ and then use their own toughness and saves as if they were shot regularly. That way taking Stormshields as bodyguards would actually make sense even.

Edited August 27, 2019 by sfPanzer

[Joukernaut]

Makes more sense from a narrative perspective at least.

[Panzer]

Mechanically as well imo.

[Indefragable]

Honestly bodyguards should just intercept the HIT on a roll of X+ and then use their own toughness and saves as if they were shot regularly. That way taking Stormshields as bodyguards would actually make sense even.

I’ve always thought this should be the case.

 

After all, it’s Veteran Jimmy going “NOOOOOO!!!!!” Slow-motion-diving in front of a bolt shell and not Veteran Jimmy going “NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!” slow-motion-reaching into the open wound to replace a gangrenous kidney with a fresh one of his own.