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Land Speeders: Running them in 8th Edition.


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12 replies to this topic

#1
Rommel44

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Hey mates. With the new Codex that was just released and from looking at the changes, Land Speeders benefited from a much needed point decrease and upgrades with the Chapter Tactics, Doctrines, and all the other fun things included in the new Codex. With that being the case, I am currently debating on what route to go for them and this is how I see it: 

* Land Speeder Typhoon: Anti-Tank version of the Land Speeder, it's the variant that I think will be the most popular due to the fact it benefits from the Devestator Doctrine Turn 1 and it can snipe enemy Armor Units from a distance without having to get close or use the Frag Missiles for Anti-Infantry. Drawback is that it is by far the most expensive of all the variants, suffers -1 to hit whenever it moves, and sadly the Typhoon Missile Launcher only has 2x Krak Shots (2D6 Frag Shots) for how expensive it is. 99% of the time it goes with a Hvy. Bolter fielded by the Co-Pilot due to the range and an extra 3x shots, and a Squadron of 3x has the potential to do a lot of damage, but the price tag point wise can be a factor. 

* Land Speeder "Dakka" Tornado: One that was popular in the past and one with a lot of potential now, purpose of this variant is to dish out as many shots as possible and if your running a Squadron of them, it can be very effective. By taking the Assault Cannon and Co-Pilot Hvy. Bolter, it can dish out 9x shots a turn (6x S6, 3x S5) and take advantage of that by not being too hampered by moving around the table. One of the cheaper options in terms of weaponry and a Squadron of 3x can do a ton of damage to an unsuspecting unit, and dont forget they can be a decent unit in CC now with the Shock Assault rule. 

* Land Speeder "Flame" Tornado: Unique variation of the Tornado that really hasn't seen much action barring Salamander Players, it is very simple and direct in its use on the tabletop. Armed with 2x Hvy. Flames, whole purpose of this one is to simply utilize its movement to get as close as possible and torch anything in it's way, with a Squadron of 3x capable of putting out 6x S5 D6 shots that Auto-Hit in a single shooting phase. Has potential, but Salamander players should strongly consider it with their "Flamestorm" Strategem and a Dual-Hvy. Flamer Tornado is the cheapest version. 

* Land Speeder "Jack" Tornado: Short for "Jack-of-all-Trades", whole purpose of this variant is to be effective in both shooting Infantry as well as vehicles and heavy units. Co-Pilot weapon in this case is the Multi-Melta, with the option being either the Assault Cannon or the Hvy. Flamer for the weapon underneath and at that point, it depends on what you personally prefer. Hvy. Flamer is the cheaper option, but the Assault Cannon guarantees you at least 6 shots but it's up to you. 

* Granted you can run a Land Speeder with the single Co-Pilot Weapon (either a Hvy. Bolter, Hvy. Flamer, or Multi-Melta) and run it like that. But if your going to do that, you would be better off fielding an Attack Bike imo. 

Just my thoughts so feel free to share how you plan on fielding your Land Speeders or which variant do you like or plan on taking and why .
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#2
Kallas

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Personally, I think Ultramarines Land Speeders are the current winners (possibly until more supplements besides just Ultramarines and White Scars are released).

 

Scions of Guilliman giving them move and shoot without penalty from Turn Two onwards is great for them, as that's their biggest stumbling block as a competitive option.

 

My preference for loadout would be Heavy Bolter and Typhoon Missile Launcher. You get a decent amount of anti-tank firepower with some added anti-infantry punch (moreso if you can spare the missiles for Frags). Each Speeders only runs to 87pts each, so a squad of three is only 261pts; which isn't too bad, considering their 20" move (while all three are alive), FLY and Scions of Guilliman.

 

Also, and often overlooked aspect of Land Speeders: they're WS3+ with 2A each (3 including Shock Assault). Now, by no means am I saying that they're a melee unit! But with their T5 6W, Sv3+ and 9A (for the squad of three) they're decently capable of diving into an enemy fire support unit (eg, Imperial Guard Mortar Heavy Weapons Squad) to tie them down and probably kill them over two Fight phases; and with their speed and base size, they are quite likely going to be able to trap a model, keeping them safe from enemy fire in their next turn - one could even do this to a more basic infantry squad (though obviously carries less value than tying down a more useful ranged unit).

 

Something to bear in mind!



#3
zero88

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Don't forget That Big Guns Never Tire affects an entire unit, so for a measly 1CP you can get a squadron of 3 speeders relentless while also increasing their movement to 20". Just about every variant can be useful now, but Typhoons and Tornados benefit the most.. TML dropped in points and now punches Krak Missiles at AP-3, and either Dakka Tornados or Flame Tornados hitting at AP-2 is really good as well. They offer a ton of versatility for a decent price tag and have one of the coolest models in the 40k range (One that has aged well too)
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#4
Captain Idaho

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I'm digging the Land Speeder Typhoon. 2 Missile launchers and a Heavy Bolter per model, with 6 wounds! Not a bad support fire unit.
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#5
The Unseen

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Still too expensive
And, unless your Ultras, still can't make use of that high movement stat and fire without penalty natively.
Compare them to the attack bike chassis.
2 extra wounds, fly, and I think 2" of movement.
25 pts to almost double still, at 45.
And attack bikes aren't undercosted.
Base chassis should probably be around the 35-40 pt mark.
The weapons they can take are expensive enough, as if your giving them heavy bolters, why aren't you just running inceptors instead?
As 3 bolter inceptors are 9 wounds over 3 bodies compared to 12 over 2, so 2 damage shots require same # to kill them, and the inceptors are stronger vs d6/d3 weapons, slightly worse again D3. same T and Save, but put out 18 shots vs 12, and can move and fire without penalty, and can't be shot till after they've gotten to shoot at least once.

With Ultras and doctrines though, I could see the appeal.
They can pack a heavier punch with the Dev doctrine, or get to move and shoot without penalty with Tactical.
Both are solid boosts.
But I still don't rate missile launchers.
Even with -3 AP.
The Str8 just kills it, and lascannons under Dev doctrine just ignore normal vehicle saves.
Even if the AP boost from a lascannon is wasted, like against invulns, T8 targets are too common for the missile launcher to shine for me. And 2d6 bolter shots as an upside is way too weak to lose that Str on the anti tank side.
Marines dont struggle to bring bolter fire.

Same reason melta stuff struggles this edition.
The really big targets are T8 and probably have an invuln, so it can't reliably use its strengths.

Edited by The Unseen, 25 August 2019 - 09:18 PM.

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#6
Captain Idaho

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See, I actually like Missile Launchers with the Devastator Doctrine. Against the majority of targets in the game they will wound on the same dice roll as a Lascannon. As an Ultramarines player I have access to the Seal of Oath so against T8 it isn't such a problem either.

I'm thinking you need to ensure you have the lascannon equivalents in the list alongside these gunboats.

Eliminators are popular and the anti-tank option is getting a lot of praise and it is also a S8 weapon, so I think Typhoons will be pretty good.
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#7
The Unseen

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See, I actually like Missile Launchers with the Devastator Doctrine. Against the majority of targets in the game they will wound on the same dice roll as a Lascannon. As an Ultramarines player I have access to the Seal of Oath so against T8 it isn't such a problem either.

I'm thinking you need to ensure you have the lascannon equivalents in the list alongside these gunboats.

Eliminators are popular and the anti-tank option is getting a lot of praise and it is also a S8 weapon, so I think Typhoons will be pretty good.


That's fair
I play BA, so I don't get AP-3 on them.
If your running them as supplemental heavy fire in addition, they're probably alright.
In my area, I fight a lot of knights and russes, so Str9 in some quantity is a must.
Smash captain can't kill *everything* by himself.

But eliminators are also -3 AP native, and flat 3 damage, on a very durable backfield unit that can deploy anywhere.
Ohh, and only non-plasma heavy fire that Primaris get that isn't on a 300 pt tank.
So it's a little different there.

If I was running pure Primaris, I'd be praising it too, and even with my not-all primaris BA, I'm considering them as Lascannon Dev alternatives, as the increased durability (everything in that
particular list has at least 2 wounds, so Devs don't fit well) and deployment options are good.

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#8
Charlo

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Having tried out Dev Doctrine missiles in a few games, the weapon is vastly improved with it. Really strong.

#9
Captain Idaho

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I'm definitely with The Unseen on the need for Lascannons for most players. Relying just in Typhoons will be fairly 1 dimensional and without Seal of Oath you will struggle in that regard.

#10
Charlo

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I'm definitely with The Unseen on the need for Lascannons for most players. Relying just in Typhoons will be fairly 1 dimensional and without Seal of Oath you will struggle in that regard.


I played against some T8 things this weekend and missile launchers with a Lt seemed effective enough. Admittedly not cutting edge competitive but I suppose there is room for all of them.

#11
Link2edition

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I ran 3 typhoons at our local tourney this weekend. They worked really well as support for a drop pod army. Their movement is good for getting line of sight to units your opponent is trying to hide.

Don't be shy about moving them. Hitting on a 4+ really isn't that bad, to win my final game I had to swing one around a corner and blow up a Shadowsword with the missiles hitting on 4's.


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#12
MeltaRange

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Land Speeders are actually pretty good, especially after reading thru the book a couple times and realizing that they can benefit from Big Guns Never Tire & Skilled Riders. 
 
If you want to pump some CP into them as White Scars, you can make them very hard to kill while still pumping out shots. (Skilled Riders + Ride Hard Ride Fast makes them -1 to Hit w/ a 3++, and they can still shoot with Hunter's Fusillade if you want) Ultramarines do it even better for reasons already mentioned here.
 
While I think they are solid, I'm not sure they are great enough to go out and actually purchase Land Speeders if you already don't have the unit, though.


#13
Charlo

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Land Speeders are actually pretty good, especially after reading thru the book a couple times and realizing that they can benefit from Big Guns Never Tire & Skilled Riders. 
 
If you want to pump some CP into them as White Scars, you can make them very hard to kill while still pumping out shots. (Skilled Riders + Ride Hard Ride Fast makes them -1 to Hit w/ a 3++, and they can still shoot with Hunter's Fusillade if you want) Ultramarines do it even better for reasons already mentioned here.
 
While I think they are solid, I'm not sure they are great enough to go out and actually purchase Land Speeders if you already don't have the unit, though.

 

That's really nice. Combine that with the Heavy Flamer variant and you could become a literal nightmare in your opponents face.






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