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Which list is better? Need another opinion

Chaos Black_legion Competitive List

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#1
Ezekyle_Abaddon

Ezekyle_Abaddon

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So there's a tournament that the local store/warhammer community is running, standard 2000 points and ITC missions with more focus on the fun aspect of the game rather than the competitive side. This will actually be the first 1v1 tournament that I'll be attending and I wanted to do well. (not like win the tournament, more just not be crushed in every game) And I have been play testing some lists and there are two distinct winners. List 1 contains a pure black legion army, and List 2 contains 80% black legion and 10% thousand sons. (I'll go into the actual components of the lists later.) I like both lists a lot and they play slightly different to each other and I just need help deciding which one is better.

 

List 1: Total points: 1999 Cp: 16(-2 for council of traitors and extra relic) 2 battalion detachments 1 spearhead detachment. 

 

First Battalion: 

 

HQ :(w) Abaddon the Despoiler(First Among Traitors) 240, Dark Apostle(Trusted Warleader) 100, CS in terminator amour (Unholy Fortitude) 112 

 

Troops: 20 cultists(100), 5 CSM X2 (130)

 

Elites: Contemptor Dread w C-beam cannons X2 (148), Helbrute w twin las and missile launcher (120), Dark Disciples (5)   

 

Fast Attack: Chaos bikers sgt w combi-bolter (71) 

 

 

Second Battalion: 

 

HQ: MoP (98), EC w Murder sword (74), CL (74)

 

Troops: 5 CSM (65), 5 CSM w autocannon, sgt w pp and chain axe (81), 5 CSM w plasma gun (76)

 

Spearhead: 

 

HQ: Lord Discordntant w sightless helm (180)

 

Heavy Support: Chaos Pred w twin las and lascannons (180), Venomcrawler (130), Obliterator (115) 

 

Pros: Good anti-tank, good ground coverage, decent mobility, okay physic presence 

 

Cons : Trouble dealing with screens and pesky characters

 

 

List 2: Total points: 1998  CP: 16 (-3 for council of traitors, helm of the thrideye, murdersword)  2 battalion detachments, 1 Supreme command Detachment

 

First Battalion: 

 

HQ :(w) Abaddon the Despoiler(First Among Traitors) 240, Dark Apostle(Trusted Warleader) 100, CS in terminator amour (Unholy Fortitude) 112 

 

Troops: 20 cultists(100), 5 CSM X2 (130)

 

Elites: Contemptor Dread w C-beam cannons X2 (148), Helbrute w twin las and missile launcher (120), Dark Disciples (5)  

 

Heavy Support: Venomcrawler (130)

 

 

Second Battalion: 

 

HQ: MoP (98), EC w Murder sword (74), Lord Discordant w Sightless Helm (180)

 

Troops: 5 CSM X3 

 

Supreme Command Detachment:

 

HQ: Ahriman on Disc (166), DP w Wings (180), Exalted Sorcerer w Helm of the Thirdeye (120)

 

Pros: Smite Spam, Good mobility, very good command battery

 

Cons: Not to good anti-tank (:cussing srewed against Imperial knights), few models 

 

 

There they are I know that neither of them is competitively viably in a HARDCORE ITC MAJOR COMPETITION TOURNAMENT, but again this a local game and I'm working with the best I got. Now I want to here you options on which list is better and be as harsh as you deem necessary. 

 

 

This is the Warmaster, leaving on a relaxing vacation aboard the Vengeful spirit I leave you to your biding 

 

 

EDIT: 

I have decide on a new list that combines the best of both list at the great cost of 5 CP

 

New List: Total Points: 2000 Total CP: 12 (-2/-3 for Council of Traitors, Relics of the Thousand Sons/Artifacts of Chaos)

 

Battalion

 

HQ: Abaddon the Despoiler(First Among Traitors)240, Dark Apostle(Trusted Warleader) 100, Chaos Sorcerer(Warp Lord) 98, Lord Discordant(Sightless Helm), 180

 

Troops: 20 Cultists 100, *8 CSM X2 (208)

 

Elites: Hellforge Contemptor Dread w C-Beam cannons X2 (148), Helbrute w twin las and 2 lascannons

 

Heavy Support: VenomCrawler (130)

 

Supreme Command Detachment:

 

HQ: Ahriman on Disc (166), DP w Wings (180), Exalted Sorcerer on disc w Helm of the Thirdeye (120)

 

 

Now right now I have exactly 1930 and I have 70 points to spend. My current options are a Greater Possessed, Exalted Champion, or Master of Executions. I can also get rid of 1 CSM and add a chaos lord. Once again I require some different opinions. 


Edited by Ezekyle_Abaddon, 29 August 2019 - 04:08 AM.


#2
Closet Skeleton

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Thousand Sons Supreme commands are well known cheese so that list is going to be better. If you have another Daemon Prince even a wingless one is worth it for only another 34 points over that Exalted Sorcerer.

 

Master of Possession isn't worth it to buff one unit of Obliterators, their casting values are too high. If you need the HQ slot a regular sorcerer or backup Lord will do more. Maybe even a second dark apostle.

 

Ghorisvex's teeth is better than the Murder Sword.

 

The Daemonkin warlord trait that lets you reroll 1s on psychic tests or the one that gives you an extra power are better on Chaos Sorcerers, unholy fortitude only comes up when you're in trouble and isn't that likely to be enough to save a sorcererer.

 

If you're worried about knights with chaos ally in a khorne axe prince instead of something.


Edited by Closet Skeleton, 28 August 2019 - 07:04 AM.


#3
Ezekyle_Abaddon

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Thousand Sons Supreme commands are well known cheese so that list is going to be better. If you have another Daemon Prince even a wingless one is worth it for only another 34 points over that Exalted Sorcerer.

 

Master of Possession isn't worth it to buff one unit of Obliterators, their casting values are too high. If you need the HQ slot a regular sorcerer or backup Lord will do more. Maybe even a second dark apostle.

 

Ghorisvex's teeth is better than the Murder Sword.

 

The Daemonkin warlord trait that lets you reroll 1s on psychic tests or the one that gives you an extra power are better on Chaos Sorcerers, unholy fortitude only comes up when you're in trouble and isn't that likely to be enough to save a sorcererer.

 

If you're worried about knights with chaos ally in a khorne axe prince instead of something.

 

 

First off I want to thank you for your reply. 

 

Unfortunately I don't have another demon prince lying around otherwise there would be two. Also I didn't think of actually using the MoP to buff the Obliterator, I instead use him to buff my lord discordant and the venomcrawler and hopefully use them to crush a ton of stuff in close combat turn 1 or 2. They usually never make though because the Disco Lord is rather large target so I buff him with cursed earth and heal him with sacrifice. I do agree with you that Ghorisvex's teeth is better than Murder sword, but I like that -4 on the murder sword plus the mortal wounds against a particular character just a little better but Ghorisvex's teeth is more versatile. 

 

I think all take the thousand sons cheese but i'll need to modify it, and I still want to here some more opinions as well.


Edited by Ezekyle_Abaddon, 28 August 2019 - 02:21 PM.


#4
MegaVolt87

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Yeah I am not surprised single disco lord and crawler is not working great, those seem to be better in multiples. Extra prince would edge out the exalt, or keep the exalt, drop MoP and get the extra prince with some points shuffle. 


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