Melee Kill Team Builds with New Rules in Mind

[Aothaine]

It has been a long time since I even considered building Death Watch. But I am planning on eventually building a small contingent to ally in with my future sisters of battle. With the new rules what are some kill teams that you have found effective in melee?

Edited August 30, 2019 by Aothaine

[Black Knight]

Were really not a melee army, we can do it but everything we are given is for shooting. A lot of other Chapters can do melee  a lot better(Blood Angels, Space Wolves, etc). Now, if you want to play Deathwatch and another Chapter is out of your narrative then we can give you ideas of the best way to do it.

 

Do you want a pure melee army or a mix of shooty that can advance into melee? Our Primaris teams with auto bolt rifles, 4x Aggressors and an Inceptor is probably our best hardest hitting unit. A lot of that damage is in shooting though as you advance.

 

A pure melee team will be normal Vets with your poison of weapon with a bike included for falling back to re-charge.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Black_Knight

[Chris521]

I would just put melee options into a kill team without sacrificing their ranged output.

 

So something like this

5 SB/SS Vets

1 Sarge SB/ melee weapon (4 attack)

1 Blackshield SB/melee weapon (4 attack)

1 Vanguard melee weapon (hit and run)

1 Terminator (has power weapon and armor)

1 bike power weapon (charge after fallback)

 

So except for the Vanguard (who you want anyway) everyone here has Rapid fire 2, but you also can have a significant melee output.

[Vel'Cona]

I would just put melee options into a kill team without sacrificing their ranged output.

 

Seconded.  One of the keys with new SM in general is recognizing that Shock Assault gives us a valuable tool in terms of stacking damage since we get an obvious advantage when playing close-in/aggressive.  If you can get said unit to optimal range for the round of shooting then follow up with a solid bit of melee potential, I think that's really the key to maximizing the insane price tag of SM units.  Role-focused play is for Eldar and Tau; Marines have to do it all! :D

[Mobius0288]

Do us a favor and add melee kill teams somewhere in the title. Totally want to open up into all the different kind of kill team combinations... haha

 

I have a melee oriented team that I run regularly.

 

Biker (beacon) - Chainsword

Sgt - SB/Power Axe

Blackshield - SB/Power Axe

Termie - SB/Power Fist

Termie - Lightning Claws

VV - Bp/ Power Sword

Vet - SB/SS

Vet - SB/SS

Vet - SB/SS

Vet - Frag Cannon

 

Backed with a Watchmaster or Chaplain is fun. And even a shout out to chaplain dreads.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Mobius0288

[Aothaine]

Do us a favor and add melee kill teams somewhere in the title. Totally want to open up into all the different kind of kill team combinations... haha

 

I have a melee oriented team that I run regularly.

 

Biker (beacon) - Chainsword

Sgt - SB/Power Axe

Blackshield - SB/Power Axe

Termie - SB/Power Fist

Termie - Lightning Claws

VV - Bp/ Power Sword

Vet - SB/SS

Vet - SB/SS

Vet - SB/SS

Vet - Frag Cannon

 

Backed with a Watchmaster or Chaplain is fun. And even a shout out to chaplain dreads.

 

Added melee to the title. Sorry about that.

 

I see where you're going with this for sure. It is quite close to what I was thinking. But I think you are all on the mark. Make it shooty with some melee elements.

 

Were really not a melee army, we can do it but everything we are given is for shooting. A lot of other Chapters can do melee  a lot better(Blood Angels, Space Wolves, etc). Now, if you want to play Deathwatch and another Chapter is out of your narrative then we can give you ideas of the best way to do it.

 

Do you want a pure melee army or a mix of shooty that can advance into melee? Our Primaris teams with auto bolt rifles, 4x Aggressors and an Inceptor is probably our best hardest hitting unit. A lot of that damage is in shooting though as you advance.

 

A pure melee team will be normal Vets with your poison of weapon with a bike included for falling back to re-charge.

 

Gotcha! Yeah this will be used to ally into my Sisters of Battle army from time to time for fun. I really like the primaris team with the auto bolt rilfes, 4x aggressors with all bolt weaponery and the inceptor. All of it has a ton of firepower and melee if it gets stuck in and can deal with big targets with all of those power fists. Thanks a bunch!

 

 

 

Seconded.  One of the keys with new SM in general is recognizing that Shock Assault gives us a valuable tool in terms of stacking damage since we get an obvious advantage when playing close-in/aggressive.  If you can get said unit to optimal range for the round of shooting then follow up with a solid bit of melee potential, I think that's really the key to maximizing the insane price tag of SM units.  Role-focused play is for Eldar and Tau; Marines have to do it all!

 

 

Ahhh I forgot Deathwatch had access Aggressors. :/

 

 

 

I want to thank all of you for the suggestions! Really appreciate the advice!

[Mobius0288]

Wanted to bring this up in an older topic with the above discussions rather than start anew one...

 

Trying to build a fluffy but still decent melee kill team. I am currently looking at Vets as the choice but wanted to see what others have done (maybe in the past?)

 

My initial thought (due to WYSIWYG*) is:

 

*Sgt - SB, power maul

*BS - SB, power maul

*Vet - SB, SS

*Vet - SB, SS

*Vet - SB, power maul

Vanguard Vet - Heavy Thunder Hammer

Termie - SB, power fist

Termie - SB, power fist

Termie - SB, power fist

Biker - chainsword

 

Melee teams are going to be pricey and I know I can optimize the HTH. How would you guys do it if you did?

[Mobius0288]

And another couple of thoughts.

 

Is it cheaper and/or better to just stick with a vanguard veterans unit?

- Better movement across the board

- Cheaper then a maxed out mixed-kill team

- If deep striking, a librarian assist would still be useful (veil of time)

 

As far as power weapons go... if you try to punch above your weight (vehicles), you're hitting on 5's for the most part. Could lightning claws and power fists be the ideal/cheapest investment? Or just go swords for the better AP? TH's seem best on Sgts and blackshields. Spamming them costs A LOT, and I'm thinking chapter approved may bump our thunder hammer costs with the other codexes.

 

Seen these questions asked in a few different places, was curious what you guys thought about it.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Mobius0288

[Mr4Minutes]

So, my thoughts:

 

The obvious: HTHs are trash. Too expensive with too little attacks. 2 regular THs do statistically more damage. Character THs will go up in points but non character ones stayed the same in C:SM.

 

Kitting Vet squads for CC is all about delivery, and I’ve found DS to be ineffective at that. I’ve used similar squads to yours, different load outs, but basically SB with power weapons and they never really work for me. I end up using the DS strat to get them close, shoot a thing, and then have them wiped the next turn by opponent me shooting when they fail the charge.

 

It’s not optimal, but I suggest a Corvus to bring the CC Vet unit in if you’re set on taking one. At least this way you can almost guarantee a charge once they hit the table. I’ve never taken one personally, but it’s all we’ve got to transport a mixed KT with a bike.

 

Dual lightning claws on a vanguard Vet squad is interesting to me. On a full 10 man that’s 41 attacks on the charge that reroll wounds. And the +1 wound strat can really help if needed. You could probably start it on the board and use terrain to keep it out of sight until they strike. Down side is it’s squishy and lacks an invuln(although you could add SS to help). It could get expensive quick if you add PFs and stuff, and it may just be a good unit on paper(and probably only to me)

 

I think the best CC unit we have right now is the Aggressor Fortis KT. 4 Aggressors with the bolters, 1 inceptor with bolter, 5 auto bolt rifles and a PF on the Sarge. That’s a T5 unit with 25 wounds. Good mobility, 20 PF attacks on the charge. And a good threat range at 18” radius.

 

TL;DR: I don’t think CC Vets are effective. I’ve tried PS to TH and I can never reliably get them into combat before they get shot off the board.

[Black Knight]

I have seen the Powerfist on the Sgt mentioned a bit recently, is he the new hotness?

[Mobius0288]

I think when we speak to mixed kill teams, I agree, we should never go full melee (SS, power weapons...). We should absolutely go mixed shooting and melee, I would just like to find a nice middle ground. For me it will be a frontline distraction or heavy hitting unit if ignored.

 

I have toyed with a larger veteran vanguard unit... several storm shields, couple hammers and lots of chainswords. It works for me as I like to run bike(s) with a smash captain and rush on turn 1. Shoot some chaff, have a T5 unit positioned to take some hits and charge if within range to tie up some shooting units. VV's could be a great supporting unit and would be able to hop over some screens depending on positioning. It would absolutely go well with a blackstar and I've run it like that a few times. I nearly kill G-man once with a couple of hammer, straight bypassing a marine screen (debark, move 12" AND charge). It's not an OP strategy but it's definitely threatening. Tempted to try 2 units of VV in 2 blackstars, and kit out the rest of my kill teams for ground assault.

 

Which leads me back to lightning claws. I wonder what the stats could be for LC's punching above their weight vs hammers or fists wounding on something T8. LC's hit on 3's and reroll the wounds, while hammers/fists have -1 to hit but will wound on 4's with only reroll 1's. It's interesting. I definitely need to make a dual LC blackshield for one of my kill teams... been meaning to for a long time.

[spacewatch]

...

 

Which leads me back to lightning claws. I wonder what the stats could be for LC's punching above their weight vs hammers or fists wounding on something T8. LC's hit on 3's and reroll the wounds, while hammers/fists have -1 to hit but will wound on 4's with only reroll 1's. It's interesting. I definitely need to make a dual LC blackshield for one of my kill teams... been meaning to for a long time.

 

Dual-LC's do look awesome but I'm not sure they are effective against T8 targets. Roughly estimated (and this is very rough estimation) that Blackshield with TH, PF or dual-LC have more or less the same chance to cause unsaved wound against T8Sv3+ vehicle. So for Blackshield with TH is best but I'm thinking Blackshield with PF+PP would be interesting to try too. This combo would give him D3+2 damage and I feel this also give him some versatility too. (When dealing with plasma a Captain is of course needed nearby.)