FW Custodes finalised rules

[Master_Trajan]

I'm working on a list like this one:

 

 

sc on bike, missle 165

sc on bike, missle 165

sc allarus, spear 124    

 

3x sagittarium, 3x misericordias 162

3x cg, 1x shield 2x spear & misericordia 169

3x cg, 1x shield 2x spear & misericordia 169 

vex magnifica, axe 124    

 

4x Aquilon 332

5x vertus praetors 450

Achillus 140      

 

2000pt

 

Very aggressive, Achillus is in mainly to deal with heavy stuff, acting from deep strike and praying the god emperor for a successful charge.

Allarus shield captain is there to re-roll ones on the 24 shots of lastrum bolters from Aquilon terminators & Achillus and to use the always useful allarus stratagems..

Edited September 5, 2019 by Master_Trajan

[shanewatts]

Personally I am SUPER stoked about Saggitarum, my only problem with them before was that they were heavy support. Now I can actually run a Custodes Battalion and not feel like I have wasted points in the list, 2x5 Saggitarum and 1xX guard/pyrhitte guard.

[Ishagu]

They are the best Custodes Troop choice now. Very well rounded unit.

[Charlo]

THIS is really interesting. Making my shelved Custodes appear in a whole new light if i'm honest.

 

May just build the other Saggitarum I have lying around now, a cheaper, shooty Battalion is just what they needed.

 

Also I'm glad about the Tank. It was never meant to be the main anti-everything gun, it has an anti-tank option.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Charlo

[CaptainMarsh]

My Custodes were find before and are fine afterward, even better. Very pleased with the finalized rules.

[Charlo]

Also super pumped to give my Blaze Cannon Caladius a run;

 

Two S9 AP-4 Damage 3+D3 shots that re-roll to wound 3+ and most likely hit on a 2+ reroll? Utterly Savage.

[Mr. Funktastic]

Definitely curious to hear about people's experiences with the Twin Arachnus Heavy Blaze Cannons on the Caladius. It's definitely going to be a monster against vehicles without invulnerable saves but with ones with invulns...guess we'll see. Right now we can use all the anti-tank we can get.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Mr. Funktastic

[TheFinisher4Ever]

In my game against the new marine Dex, the heavy Blaze cannons were worth their weight in gold. Even with iron hands chapter tactics, I was getting 9-10 wounds through per turn on his dreadnought and repulsor executioners. The d3+3 damage really does feel nice. I think I'm gonna try 2 of them in my next game, see how they do.

[Mr. Funktastic]

Did your opponent get to use Duty Eternal which is supposed to cut damage in half? Still, it's nice to hear even 1 by itself did well, minimum 4 damage sounds savage. I think even against things like Dunecrawlers with a 5++ it'll be useful, it's things with 4++ like Knights that'll present more of an issue due to only having 2 shots.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Transhuman physiology is great versus high strength ranged weapons. You want to make sure opponent has to dedicate at least two enemy units’ shooting to eliminate one of your units per turn. If it takes three that’s pure gold versus Custodes.

 

GW should have realized the last set of beta rules were too good for Callidius... basically flying Hive Guard with BS2 and PotMS plus durable. I never used them coz I knew they would get hit by the nerf bat... problem is GW overreacted - they like to give but love to take.

[shanewatts]

Transhuman Physiology is infantry only right?

[dice4thedicegod]

Transhuman Physiology is infantry only right?

Anything not vehicle or servitor.

[shanewatts]

 

Transhuman Physiology is infantry only right?

Anything not vehicle or servitor.

 

Ok, so still no bearing on Arachnus doing work on marine vehicles (without invulns.)

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

GWs treatment of custodes has felt half hearted at best.

 

Since they dropped.

 

This has been true since they hit the table in 7th.

 

First they had no way to make a real army. Then they did and were ridiculously costed.

 

Then some of the FW stuff dropped and things were good for what...5 months ish?

 

8th hits. Bam. Custodes back to two units. (I can barely count the dread and land raider for 4 I guess)

 

Then a codex that felt...barebones to be generous. No specific abilities tied to different groups of custodes. One character in an army that is literally composed of characters. No sisters of silence. The bikes wardens and alluras and Valoris drop and I believe we are the first and only codex of 8th that had one troop option? Maybe harliquins?

 

A bundle of kicking and screaming later we got FW models back in beta form and they were mostly good with some clearly stronger than others.

 

I know I spent at least 5 hours writing up details of games and comparisons to similar units with reasoning to send as feedback and honestly a couple thing they are doing for final release are there that I know the community and I begged for.

 

 

But there is no real logic to many of these changes. There is no passion to custodes. And maybe they are just being huge goofballs timing wise and the chapter approved plus psychic awakening will get us a lot of what we need and possibly the only reason I can think of for giving us final rules now is that the ares went out and they wanted rules with it and they just decided to drop it all.

 

 

It was a poor choice for the fans.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Hellex_The_Thanatar

[Charlo]

I'm just... Not seing your viewpoint to be honest Hellex...

 

Personally I don't see the 7th Ed stuff as revelant, they were always meant to be a 30k army at that point and just got 40k rules to sell land raiders ;) plus did the FW stuff even have 7th ed rules? I don't think so...

 

For 8th, we got a full codex and four great kits at our big release; Trajhan, Wardens, Allarus & thr ubiquitous Jetbikes.

 

I'm glad we didn't get split into sub factions too, instead every custodes army can use all of the powerful stratagems/ relics/ warlord traits from the book!

 

We got experimental rules yes, and they have been refined now and made incredibly playable - just the Adrathic change to 3D everywhere is amazing and now we have Saggitarum, Melta and Adrasite guys as troops too, adressing one of your other concerns.

[Gederas]

I'm in agreement with Charlo. Custodes SHOULDN'T have subfactions. That goes against the point of Custodes as an army.

 

It doesn't matter what Shield Host they're in, all Custodes are the same because they're all hyper-elite warriors who receive the exact same training.

 

And that is perfectly fine by me. No subfactions, just simplicity of being the best of the best.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Gederas

[shanewatts]

Honestly as a faction I am pretty happy with where Custodes are. With the FW units we have enough unit type diversity to make multiple types of successful lists.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

>Personally I don't see the 7th Ed stuff as revelant, they were always meant to be a 30k army at that point and just got 40k rules to sell land raiders ;) plus did the FW stuff even have 7th ed rules? I don't think so...<

 

I mean yes...30k was 7th Ed. There is no discussion there they used the same rules. You could cross play.

 

Taking that away was a major mistake. Probably one that cost them quite a bit of money at least from the custodes side considering how they relented and released rules. Bet there was a right dip in sales.

 

 

I will concede that maybe having fluffy faction rules would be less than ideal for custodes.

 

Solving the cp issue would fix so many of the problems we face. I wonder what an extra stat line on hqs like CPx where x is what they are contributing.

 

 

So a commissioner would be like a 1 but guiliman a 5 or something.

 

 

Anyways on topic: does anyone wonder if the next custodes book will ACTUALLY have the FW models now in rules??

[CaptainMarsh]

Yeah, I'm having a blast with my Custodes in this edition. I haven't felt efforts in my direction as a Custodes player have been half-hearted or passionless.

[shanewatts]

Solving the cp issue would fix so many of the problems we face. I wonder what an extra stat line on hqs like CPx where x is what they are contributing.

What CP issue are you running into? Custodes on its own doesn't use a ton of CP.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

 

 

Solving the cp issue would fix so many of the problems we face. I wonder what an extra stat line on hqs like CPx where x is what they are contributing.

What CP issue are you running into? Custodes on its own doesn't use a ton of CP.

 

I find not being able to use more than one or two strats a game is frustrating against other armies. Wolves in particular frustrated me with me wanting to take a relic use golden light and then can maybe get off one like tangle grenades or the alluras one.

 

I am a bigger fan of Valoris than when he dropped but dang if I don't wish he just added cp instead of recover it in very specific situations.

[Dulahan]

I feel like in GW's mind the Custodes were always meant to be more of a supplement for other Imperial forces, and never really meant to be a full army.  Thus our original sparse (to put it mildly!) codex.  I mean seriously, the one troop choice, and terrible selection of stuff was stupid on its own.

 

But as something to sprinkle into a pre rule that made Imperium not a valid faction for detachments force, it worked wonderfully.  You COULD have an Imperial Guard force led by Valoris or a shield captain with a tiny Custodes force for his bodyguards.  And that was cool!  Unfortunately, Soup got stupid and that rule got added and screwed it... but they still haven't really fixed Custodes to make up for the fact their likely originally intended purpose was no longer possible.

 

Frankly, I'd be happy if they did allow Custodes to be back in such a situation, ignoring detachment rules or something.  But we know they won't.

 

So now we need a freaking army that isn't just Forge World.  And honestly, those Venatari and Sagitarum should've been plastics and part of the original codex to begin with.  And the alt-spears as upgrades to a normal unit like many have said.

 

So yeah, the codex needs upgrading and probably twice as many basic available outside of FW units.  And given all the lore has them working alongside the Sisters of Silence, that should be a thing!  Heck, recent-ish novels have even made that a thing, along with the Grey Knights!   Frankly, making "Talons of the Emperor" a codex, with the Grey Knights, Custodes, and Sisters of Silence all usable in a single force seems like the best bet to me.  Use the trinity the way the Emperor (Or at least the Sigillite ) intended!

Edited September 7, 2019 by Dulahan

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

People can say how much they just love the finalized rules but really the people that like them the most are those that play against them. Saggitarium should have always been a troop choice and overall the faction is not as competitive. It’s okay to apologize for these rules but in the end it changes nothing.

[CaptainMarsh]

The complaining about Custodes as a faction does not align with my experience. And saying we are 'apologizing' for the rules seems rather trite. I'm enjoying how they play and have had good results with them. 

[shanewatts]

People can say how much they just love the finalized rules but really the people that like them the most are those that play against them. Saggitarium should have always been a troop choice and overall the faction is not as competitive. It’s okay to apologize for these rules but in the end it changes nothing.

 

I like the new rules (besides the Telemon changes) and I play the hell out of Custodes. Having an actual set of troop choices is phenomenal.

 

Mostly I was happy about the Caladius changes so that way all the flavour of the month soup lists move on to something different.

Edited September 9, 2019 by shanewatts