Suppressors - opinions?

[CaptainMarsh]

They're okay, nothing too great. Sometimes the Overwatch cancelling can be cool, and just today I cancelled the overwatch of 60 Fire Warriors (allowing my Phobos army to get stuck in immediately and wipe out all but a handful of his infantry turn one) with just six Suppressors. They have their matchups and targets that they like. Too limited for broad use.

[Ishagu]

They are perfectly usable and easily slot into a variety of lists.

 

Not a must take by any stretch. They are best with Iron Hands (as most units are)

[Panzer]

I don't think they are too limited for broad use. Actually I'd say it's the exact opposite. They are too jack-of-all-trades to compete with dedicated anti-tank and dedicated anti-infantry units in many cases. Their advantage is that they don't fall too far behind compared with those combined with the huge range of 48" and their mobility if needed.

Edited September 12, 2019 by sfPanzer

[Xenith]

Great thoughts all!

 

For sure they should be up and killing things. 48" range is great, and I think if there's a key charge that needs to me made, they can focus on the target. Although that being said, it's kind of a paradox as you dont want to shoot a unit you want to charge too much as your opponent will remove the closest models to make the charge harder...

 

It would be nice if the unit could sacrifice all it's shooting to lay down suppressive fire and block one target from OW, but this is wishlisting.

 

I'm super keen to see what alternative loadouts will be available when they release the multipart kit. I think this will come later, the last marine releases all seemed vanguard themed while these are not in phobos.

[ERJAK]

Hi all,

 

I didn't see any topics on them, so now there is.

 

How have they been faring in game for you? Good? Useless? In between?

 

Are they a worthy HS choice, or just good for cheaply filling a battalion?

 

All thoughts are welcome - for reference mine will be using BA chapter tactics, however I thought I'd get more varies responses in the AA section.

They're bad. I bought 3 units of them after missreading the dataslate and thinking they had 2 of their guns and power of the marine spirit equivalent. I was still on the fence even WITH those buffs. Without them they're trash.

[Lemondish]

 

Hi all,

 

I didn't see any topics on them, so now there is.

 

How have they been faring in game for you? Good? Useless? In between?

 

Are they a worthy HS choice, or just good for cheaply filling a battalion?

 

All thoughts are welcome - for reference mine will be using BA chapter tactics, however I thought I'd get more varies responses in the AA section.

They're bad. I bought 3 units of them after missreading the dataslate and thinking they had 2 of their guns and power of the marine spirit equivalent. I was still on the fence even WITH those buffs. Without them they're trash.

I've honestly had nothing but success with them. Their profile is one of the most versatile in 8th edition, and their cost is real low for it. They can be durable, mobile, and reach out at massive range.

 

Honestly if I didn't think they were so goofy looking I'd probably be all for getting more of them

[ERJAK]

 

 

Hi all,

 

I didn't see any topics on them, so now there is.

 

How have they been faring in game for you? Good? Useless? In between?

 

Are they a worthy HS choice, or just good for cheaply filling a battalion?

 

All thoughts are welcome - for reference mine will be using BA chapter tactics, however I thought I'd get more varies responses in the AA section.

They're bad. I bought 3 units of them after missreading the dataslate and thinking they had 2 of their guns and power of the marine spirit equivalent. I was still on the fence even WITH those buffs. Without them they're trash.

I've honestly had nothing but success with them. Their profile is one of the most versatile in 8th edition, and their cost is real low for it. They can be durable, mobile, and reach out at massive range.

 

Honestly if I didn't think they were so goofy looking I'd probably be all for getting more of them

[Lemondish]

 

 

 

Hi all,

 

I didn't see any topics on them, so now there is.

 

How have they been faring in game for you? Good? Useless? In between?

 

Are they a worthy HS choice, or just good for cheaply filling a battalion?

 

All thoughts are welcome - for reference mine will be using BA chapter tactics, however I thought I'd get more varies responses in the AA section.

They're bad. I bought 3 units of them after missreading the dataslate and thinking they had 2 of their guns and power of the marine spirit equivalent. I was still on the fence even WITH those buffs. Without them they're trash.

I've honestly had nothing but success with them. Their profile is one of the most versatile in 8th edition, and their cost is real low for it. They can be durable, mobile, and reach out at massive range.

 

Honestly if I didn't think they were so goofy looking I'd probably be all for getting more of them

Even with shrike rerolls they hit like gnats, they're not that fast and the range is largely irrelevant because of how little damage they do.

 

 

Hmm, *shrug* they've done great for me. That's kind of been the opposite of my experience. Maybe they're just over-performing against the forces in my meta, but autocannon style shots have been such a boon for me. Another reliable threat against many heavier targets other than trying to get Hellblasters within 15'' of something my opponent wants to keep alive. Suppressors have plugged a hole in my Primaris list for ranged fire support that isn't flashy but does the job I want them to pretty much every game. I'd never really advocate for taking out a similar unit from a list to fit these in - I feel it's a unit built to be complementary for a variety of roles, but if you're going to use them (i.e. for a brigade, or you like the unit) then you'll find they can be of value. For 90 points they're pretty cheap, too. 

 

For UM and IH, they'll be pretty mobile as well, though I find it really odd to hear 12'' isn't that fast...for a unit with Fly, that's pretty awesome honestly. 

[NatBrannigan]

I have to say... If these guys could move and shoot without penalty and had twice as many shots they'd be one of the best units in the game surely?

[Ishagu]

I have to say... If these guys could move and shoot without penalty and had twice as many shots they'd be one of the best units in the game surely?

With Iron Hands and Ultramarines they shoot without penalty when moving.

 

And with Iron Hands the guns are Ap-3 and re roll hit rolls of 1 on top.

[quasistellar]

Yeah with IH I can't see why anyone wouldnt like these. 90 points for 6 autocannon shots that can move 12" without penalty and have an additional-1 AP. I don't think there's a better value autocannon unit in the whole army. Deploy them out of LOS then move and shoot. The overwatch suppression is just gravy.

 

I think they'll also be a lower priority target in most IH lists so they'll likely not take a lot of fire at first. They outrange most of the units with guns optimised to kill them as well.

Edited September 13, 2019 by quasistellar

[Jerethdatiger]

I still say there best use is for there ability

[Son of Sacrifice]

I'd argue that they certainly aren't overpriced. Autocannons are generally regarded as one of the most efficient weapons in 40k, if they hit like gnats you're shooting the wrong targets

[NatBrannigan]

Yeah, these thing are growing on me, and that's without the Doctrines so as Iron Hands or similar they're spot on. Just wish all the Primaris flying guys didn't have the Polio braces and Ice Skates attached! Easy to remove and they look a lot better then. Need to take mine of the flying stands mind you.

[Captain Idaho]

Looking at them as objectively as possible, they have a niche role and inferior firepower than Eliminators and Hellblasters. Unfortunately, the majority of units you'll be worried about Overwatch are vehicles, monsters and Battlesuits - all of which are immune to the effects of Suppressors.

 

It would be nice to hit an Ork mob without taking Overwatch fire of course, but outside of them you're not really getting much benefit from Suppressors.

 

If you want to kill things, take other units. If you want to charge things, well hope it is a unit that Suppressors can influence. Otherwise save your points.

[Panzer]

Actually Hellblasters need to be in Rapid fire range to be more efficient than Suppressors damage output wise. And when they are within 15" they are very dead very fast while Suppressors with their 48" range can usually shoot stuff for the whole game or at least a few turns more than Hellblasters. One is a glass hammer that hits hard of if you get to swing it, the other is a constant rain of arrows.

Edited September 16, 2019 by sfPanzer

[Triszin]

I'm starting to suspect, hellfuries is a plasma variant of suppressors, but their utility rule effects vehicles.

[Captain Idaho]

Actually Hellblasters need to be in Rapid fire range to be more efficient than Suppressors damage output wise. And when they are within 15" they are very dead very fast while Suppressors with their 48" range can usually shoot stuff for the whole game or at least a few turns more than Hellblasters. One is a glass hammer that hits hard of if you get to swing it, the other is a constant rain of arrows.

Sure they have to be within 15" for the double shots, but why wouldn't that be your aim with them?

 

Okay Suppressors aren't comparable in that case because of range, so we compare them to Eliminators or Devastator squads - both of which are superior weapons platforms.

 

Eliminators in particular are comparable due to stat similarities and the damage output of Eliminators is much better as it's focused.

 

Competitively speaking a single unit gives you options for some games but really you likely won't need to stop Overwatch often.

[PiñaColada]

I'm starting to suspect, hellfuries is a plasma variant of suppressors, but their utility rule effects vehicles.

Or, you know, hopefully meltas? Primaris already have a ton of plasma options and zero meltas, which are (or at least should be) the vehicle killers. Just give them the same stats as normal suppressors but give them a 2shot meltagun each and probably switch out the negating overwatch rule to something else (maybe no -1 to hit if when advancing and firing meltas if the target is a vehicle?)

[Panzer]

I'm starting to suspect, hellfuries is a plasma variant of suppressors, but their utility rule effects vehicles.

 

Would be kinda weird. Inceptors didn't get a separate unit entry for their Plasma variant either and neither did Aggressors for their Flamer variant.

[Panzer]

 

Actually Hellblasters need to be in Rapid fire range to be more efficient than Suppressors damage output wise. And when they are within 15" they are very dead very fast while Suppressors with their 48" range can usually shoot stuff for the whole game or at least a few turns more than Hellblasters. One is a glass hammer that hits hard of if you get to swing it, the other is a constant rain of arrows.

Sure they have to be within 15" for the double shots, but why wouldn't that be your aim with them?

 

Okay Suppressors aren't comparable in that case because of range, so we compare them to Eliminators or Devastator squads - both of which are superior weapons platforms.

 

Eliminators in particular are comparable due to stat similarities and the damage output of Eliminators is much better as it's focused.

 

Competitively speaking a single unit gives you options for some games but really you likely won't need to stop Overwatch often.

 

 

Not denying Eliminators or Devastators might be better, though I try to avoid comparing Primaris units with classic Marine units too much. Anyway, I already said that Suppressors suffer from being a jack of all trades unit. Eliminators are better at a very specific task but lack at other tasks. They can kill either characters or vehicles well but can't deal with infantry properly. Suppressors are okay at dealing with vehicles but are also good at dealing with infantry.

[BolterZorro]

FLy+cheap+long Mvt= winning trio for me. Add to this: hitting descently and I think that I'll almost autoinclude one or 2 units.

[Happy-inquisitor]

Looking at them as objectively as possible, they have a niche role and inferior firepower than Eliminators and Hellblasters. Unfortunately, the majority of units you'll be worried about Overwatch are vehicles, monsters and Battlesuits - all of which are immune to the effects of Suppressors.

 

It would be nice to hit an Ork mob without taking Overwatch fire of course, but outside of them you're not really getting much benefit from Suppressors.

 

If you want to kill things, take other units. If you want to charge things, well hope it is a unit that Suppressors can influence. Otherwise save your points.

 

I am afraid I have to disagree when it comes to hellblasters. I have been playing against them since 8th dropped and I do not think I have ever once just let them walk into rapid fire range unless I have had a plan in place to inflict at least a -1 to hit on them. For two years I have considered them to be pretty much entirely a non-threat to any competent player.

 

Now that I have switched to marines my opinion of them has not really changed. Unless you are going to invest in a delivery mechanism they are just a glass cannon begging to be taken off the table leaving a huge expensive hole in your army. I might consider them viable in Raven Guard as the strats to deliver them are pretty cheap but in my Crimson Fists they are just a big juicy target for my opponent. Once we get impulsors I might give them another try but I suspect their fundamental problems will still be there.

 

Suppressors by contrast get useful work done from the start of the game and need no delivery mechanism at all due to their excellent range. Their theoretical peak damage may be slightly lower but if in 2 years I have never once let an opponent get that theoretical perfect hellblaster volley I do not see why any competent opponent will let me achieve that with my hellblasters either.

[Panzer]

Until a short while ago I would've agreed with you, but with the Impulsor getting released soon things change a lot.

Unless the opponent goes first and destroys this T7 Sv4++ vehicle turn 1 he'll get punched into his face by Hellblasters in Rapid fire range. Sure they'll probably die next turn and you can mitigate that by putting them in cover if possible (with a 14" move, 3" disembark and 6" move on their own it should be possible to find cover in rapid fire range), but then they've already blasted apart something important. They are still glasshammers but they now got the perfect delivery method (okay okay Drop Pods would've been even better I give you that).

I'm definitely going to use one such unit combo for my semi-competetive games since I already own 5 Hellblaster anyway but I could see myself getting 5 more and a second Impulsor for more serious games. Nobody likes getting blasted bv 20 S8 AP-4 D2 shots turn 1 and every shot that tries to get past the 4++ is one that doesn't shoot my Dreadnoughts or Repulsors. ^^

[NatBrannigan]

I enjoy outflanking Hellblasters with my Wolves, tricky to get someone nearby to re-roll those 1's but still good. Going all in with an Impulsor to deliver makes them pricy though, Suppressors are nice and cheap and don't need any more investment.