How do you make Slamguinius work?

[ixzion]

I think this has been covered before and feel free to point me in the right direction and close this thread if it already has.

 

I have been using my Captain now for two games, and he didn't do splendidly in either game. In the first game he killed two Blood Crushers before getting stomped, and in the second he took 8 wounds from a Leviathan Dreadnought before getting evaporated.

 

I think some of it comes down to bad luck, something that I have plenty of, but I'm sure there are some tactics on how to get a bit better ROI. 

 

Can you share with me on how to get the most use of him? What stratagems should I use and how? Are there any tactics in particular that are effective? 

 

Fire away!

[Charlo]

Are you using the 3D6 to charge strat? Are you using the fight twice strat? Are you using the fight upon death strat? Red rampage? The Relic Thunder hammer/ jump pack?

 

Just a few things that help him work!

[Gingerninja]

For me he is not MWP every game. But my opponents know what he can do and because of that they have to adjust their game play to the potential of getting charged by him.

 

Sometimes I let him get in and get killed early to remove something I need removed. That can also be nice since the opponent then relaxes somewhat.

 

Now he gets 7 attacks on the charge,ä and with d3 extra attacks you should be able to kill whatever you need. I rarely use any fight against strat.

 

My 5 cent

[Neuralshock]

He's the 124 point heat seeking missile. you use it as such to scalpel out the big threat, so death company, artisan of war, no overwatch relic, 2 cp pregame move, 12 inch move, 2d6 charge, red rampage. honor the chapter/only in death to finish the job. if he somehow lives, it's a major bonus.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Neuralshock

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

I drop mine near the biggest nasty my opponent brings. That nasty then gets deleted from the table, usually. Then he dies. Which is okay, because deleting that Knight Cerastus was well over his point value, even with the CP, Warlord Trait and Relic.

[ixzion]

The games I had was before the extra attack got added to be fair. I assume that you don’t make Slamguinius your warlord then, regardless of how juicy the extra damage warlord trait is?

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

The games I had was before the extra attack got added to be fair. I assume that you don’t make Slamguinius your warlord then, regardless of how juicy the extra damage warlord trait is?

No, he's my Warlord. I play a couple Tzeentchian armies, and having that Treason immunity on my Smash is absolutely vital.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Zephaniah Adriyen

[Morticon]

Neuralshock summed up my first turn game play.

[Indefragable]

He is basically a suicide unit you pour 2/3 of your CP into on a single turn to take down THE enemy big scary threat. Then, anything after that is gravy.

 

You have to protect him at all times by using the :cuss out of <Character>, Company Vets, and/or terrain.

 

You have to get creative using Upon Wings of Fire and/or Descent of Angels and/or Forlorn Fury to position him in such a way that you can get at the juiciest target possible. Most opponents have gotten wise to our tricks so they’ll push out 9” bubbles to keep him at bay. This is where you use yer noggin’ and sweep the screening units away with DC, masses fire, whatever it takes to clear a path for him.

 

Couple versions:

-Super Smash: jump, TH+SS + Angel’s Wing Relic + Death Visions of Sanguinius +1D WLT

-Classic Smash: jump, TH+SS + Angel’s Wing + DVoS

-Shooty Smash: jump, TH + combi-Melta or inferno pistol

-Smash Lite: Jump, TH+SS

-Resilient Smash: jump, TH+SS + DVoS + Gift of Foresight WLT (for a 3+/3++/5+++ re-rolling 1’s FNP)

 

Some BA armies will take 3x captains in variations of the above.

 

“Smash Lite” is basically what any Space Marine Chapter can do, utilizing the Honor the Chapter Strategem To Fight a second time. Where ours stands out are the following:

 

-Death Visions of Sanguinius: make him Death Company for +1A on Charge and 6+++ FNP and can benefit from Forlorn Fuey Strategem and Lemartes’ re-rolls

-Angel’s Wing Relic Jump pack: arguably the most crucial piece for us, re-roll charges (huge for Descent of Angels) and turn off Overwatch. Tip: declare charges against “all eligible targets” when you charge, this potentially turning off a lot of Overwatch for the rest of your army and/or allowing you to choose what target to actually engage in case you don’t make the 11” roll but can’t get into it with someone 6” away

[Indefragable]

He is basically a suicide unit you pour 2/3 of your CP into on a single turn to take down THE enemy big scary threat. Then, anything after that is gravy.

You have to protect him at all times by using the out of <Character>, Company Vets, and/or terrain.

You have to get creative using Upon Wings of Fire and/or Descent of Angels and/or Forlorn Fury to position him in such a way that you can get at the juiciest target possible. Most opponents have gotten wise to our tricks so they’ll push out 9” bubbles to keep him at bay. This is where you use yer noggin’ and sweep the screening units away with DC, masses fire, whatever it takes to clear a path for him.

Couple versions:

Hidden Content

-Super Smash: jump, TH+SS + Angel’s Wing Relic + Death Visions of Sanguinius +1D WLT
-Classic Smash: jump, TH+SS + Angel’s Wing + DVoS
-Shooty Smash: jump, TH + combi-Melta or inferno pistol
-Smash Lite: Jump, TH+SS
-Resilient Smash: jump, TH+SS + DVoS + Gift of Foresight WLT (for a 3+/3++/5+++ re-rolling 1’s FNP)

Some BA armies will take 3x captains in variations of the above.

“Smash Lite” is basically what any Space Marine Chapter can do, utilizing the Honor the Chapter Strategem To Fight a second time. Where ours stands out are the following:

-Death Visions of Sanguinius: make him Death Company for +1A on Charge and 6+++ FNP and can benefit from Forlorn Fuey Strategem and Lemartes’ re-rolls

-Angel’s Wing Relic Jump pack: arguably the most crucial piece for us, re-roll charges (huge for Descent of Angels) and turn off Overwatch. Tip: declare charges against “all eligible targets” when you charge, this potentially turning off a lot of Overwatch for the rest of your army and/or allowing you to choose what target to actually engage in case you don’t make the 11” roll but are able to get into it with someone 6” away

-Red Rampage: +D3 A in a fight phase. Money in the bank.

-Honor the Chapter: fight again at the end of the phase, including piling into more enemies and retaining all bonuses, Black Rage, Shock Assault, Red Rampage). Amazing.

-Only in Death Does Duty End: pop this one they finally kill your Smash Captain so he can fight again before being removed (with all relevent bonuses)

So the trick is to combine variations of the above based on battlefield conditions.

What I would say is that the Deployment and Movemebt phases are the two most important. The rest will present itself (when in doubt go for the scariest thing and pop more Strategems, 1 dead enemy is better than 2 wounded enemies) in time. But the most crucial thing you can work on is placement of your unit. Never forget that footwork is what defines the truly great boxers.

The second most important thing is what units you support him with, either through cover or distraction. Cover is layers of units so that you can rely on <Character> for protection. Distraction is bringing other units like Mephiston or a Librarian Dreadnought to give your foe target saturation.

Hope this helps.

 

Other variants from different sources for comparison:

Hidden Content

 

Blood Angels

Captain Blender: jump, twin lightning claws, DVoS: gives him 8A on the charge, re-rolling all To Hit and To Wound. One mean lawnmower.

 

Captain Unkillable: cataphractii terminator armour, DVoS, Gift of Foresight WLT, Company Veterans near the Standard of Sacrifice. Gives you a 2+/3++/5+++ re-rolling failed FNP rolls of 1 with Vets who can absorb failed saves getting their own 5+++ FNP

 

Space Wolves

Smash Wolf: Wolf Lord (Capt equiv), jump pack or bike, TH+SS, Armor of Russ, Saga of the Hunter WLT. Can Move + Advance + Charge, +1 To Hit on charge (so more TH hits), and one enemy unit he is locked in combat with is chosen by the SW player to fight last. This is a VERY good counter to our own Smash Captain

 

Black Templar

Chop Marshal: Captain, jump pack, Teeth of Terra, Storm Shield, Sword Brethren specialist detachment from Vigilus Defiant, Master Swordsman WLT, Uphold the Honor of the Emperor, Suffer Not the Unclean to Live.

Whoa boy...while not as good against Knights and other big scary single targets, this guy is someone to look out for: 5A base + 3 from Teeth of Terra + 1 Shock Assault + 1 from SNtUtL which also lets you re-roll To Wound = 10A @  S5 AP-2 (-3 w/ Assault doctrine) D:2,  and then a 5+++ UHotE for defense as well.

 

White Scars

Smash Khan: The thing to bear in mind about the WS is that while Assault Doctrine is activated, they get +1D on the charge. They have so many darn good options for building a sick captain (Khan) as well, considering any combination of the following WLT and Relics.

 

Warlord Traits:

-Deadly Hunter: when successfully charging,on a 4+ causes Mortal Wound

-Chogorian Storm: +D3 attacks when charging/Heroic Intervention

-Trophy Taker: +1A until end of battle each time he kills a character

-Master Rider: re-roll charges and -1 To Hit if he advanced (dang!)

-Hunter's Instincts: +1 To Wound and To Hit vs vehicles and monsters

-Master of Snares: On a 4+ enemies that cannot <Fly> cannot Fall Back (wow!)

 

Relics:

-Wrath of the Heaven: bike with <Fly> and 16" movement. Insanity since this guy can now go 22" over any other models and still charge

-Scimitar of the Great Khan: S5 AP-3 D:2, but 6's To Wound do D:4, so D:5 on the charge

-Glaive of Vengeance: S8 AP-3 D:D3 at all times, no penalty To Hit

-Master-crafted weapon (Special Issue Wargear): +1D to a weapon. So you can have a D:5 Thunder Hammer on the charge when Assault Doctrine is on.

 

Edited September 7, 2019 by Indefragable

[t-dog1996]

It's been largely covered but I'll add my thoughts:

 

Forlorn Fury is the most reliable method of delivery, indeed almost unstoppable, if you get first turn but it can be dangerous if you don't. It can still work if you go second, but you need some Scouts deployed up the board to screen him from an opportunistic counter-attack.

 

If you go second, your best bet is to hide him away in a building and then redeploy using Upon Wings of Fire + Descent of Angels.

[Morticon]

I was today years old when I learned Gift of Foresight allowed you to reroll 1s for the FNP....

[Indefragable]

I was today years old when I learned Gift of Foresight allowed you to reroll 1s for the FNP....

The +1D is so popular it’s easy to forget there’s other options.

[Jolemai]

Was the Captain of any use? :)

[ixzion]

Was the Captain of any use?

 

Thanks Jolemai, that was a great resource 

 

 

The games I had was before the extra attack got added to be fair. I assume that you don

[The Unseen]

The trade off is usually worth it.

I'll give my opponent 1 VP if the castellan knight or similar lynchpin unit is taken out before it can wreck the rest of my list.

 

But I often also run scouts, DC, and a libby dread into the opponents line at the same time, and if I don't think the captain needs the D4 weapon, I'll give him Foresight, which makes him terrifyingly hard to kill between having to kill the scouts+DC first, and his own 3++, 5+++ rerolling 1s.

 

If my opponents lynchpin unit gets punted and the rest of his army spends the turn killing 15 scouts, 8 DC, a libby dread, and a captain, the rest of my army just rolls over them.

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

 

 

The games I had was before the extra attack got added to be fair. I assume that you don’t make Slamguinius your warlord then, regardless of how juicy the extra damage warlord trait is?

No, he's my Warlord. I play a couple Tzeentchian armies, and having that Treason immunity on my Smash is absolutely vital.

 

 

But wouldn't you be giving up your warlord, thus granting a victory point, to your opponent very early on in pretty much every game? Or perhaps the trade-off is worth it if you can kill something big?

 

 

I take the trade-off. Not that I win anyway, usually, but deleting that opponent's biggest unit (Knights, Wraithknights, G/Morkanauts, Primarchs) is always fun.

[ixzion]

Hmm I see... i was gravitating away from making him my warlord, but I might reconsider it. I haven’t tried Gift of Foresight either, so i should give that a go.

 

I have heard something around tactics around the fight twice stratagem. Something about slingshotting him into one unit and then attack again to another unit. Can anyone explain how this works?

[The Unseen]

Hmm I see... i was gravitating away from making him my warlord, but I might reconsider it. I haven’t tried Gift of Foresight either, so i should give that a go.

 

I have heard something around tactics around the fight twice stratagem. Something about slingshotting him into one unit and then attack again to another unit. Can anyone explain how this works?

You can also just not make him your warlord.

Everything else works the same, you just lose the warlord trait.

 

And sure, the Angels Wing relic means the captain ignores overwatch, so when you charge, declare everything with 12" as a target.

After you actually roll and decide what gets smacked, and then fight, afterward you can consolidate 3" as long as you move towards enemies (which isn't a problem here)

With some careful positioning, you can consolidate into a nearby target, preferably that you declared as a charge target earlier.

If you do, at the end of the fight phase, you can have your captain swing again at the new target.

However, do note, the captain will have to survive through whatever unit he consolidated into has for melee before he can swing.

If he dies, you can spend 2cp for Only in Death to fight before he's removed.

 

Personal anecdote time.

Opponent is Imperial Guard, he has 2 tank commanders screened behind guardsmen, spaced about 4" apart at the back of his deployment zone, I go first.

Captain forlorn furies up with a move+advance, then my turn begins.

Captain moves again and ends up just over 1" of the guard units screening the tanks.

 

My scout bikers focus fire the unit's of guardsmen screening the actual hull of the tank itself, they don't have to kill much, as they only have to leave room for my captain to land within 1" of a tank.

 

Come charge phase, both tanks nearest guardsmen squads are gone, so captain declares both of then a target, but one is a lot closer than the other.

Roll the charge (succeed, but angels wing also grants you a full reroll)

It's good enough that I can make it between the 2 tanks.

I stop just inside 1" away of my target tank.

Captain proceeds to turn it to scrap metal, between +2 attacks from charging, and red rampage it's overkill.

I consolidate 3" towards the other tank, putting me within an 1" thanks to the captains 32 mm base.

After everything else has fought, including the russ that ineffectally tries to run said captain over, I pay 3cp and the captain fights again, turning the 2nd tank commander into a smoking ruin.

 

I then consolidate AGAIN into some of the surviving guardsmen screen, forcing my opponent to fall back with that unit on his turn, denying a plasma gun and a handful of lasguns from shooting my captain.

 

Opponents turn 1 begins, he's lost 2 of his 3 of his tank commanders, and his infantry screen shielding the 2 regular leman russes is in tatters thanks to scout assaults, and scout bikers and long range intercessor fire.

He has to throw everything he can at the captain or else he'll just keep smacking armor to death, I have forsight+death visions.

Most of his infantry is either dead or locked in combat, so it isn't shooting this round.

It takes the conmbined fire of his 2 regular russes, the infantry dregs, and the tank commander to put the captain down thanks to some admittedly god tier storm shield save+fnp.

My opponent has 3 squads of mortars and 2 basilisks left to take on the rest of my army.

Turn 3 they only thing he has left are the 2 basilisks because they were deployed in the back corner away from everything else, and the ITC score is something like 15 to 6 my favor.

The captains suicide run and subsequent refusal to die easily basically won me the game single-handedly, the rest was just mop up.

[Morticon]

PRO TIP for Smash Cap:

 

ALWAYS declare EVERYTHING IN 12" as your target of the charge.  

ALWAYS.  This gives you options.  Get used to saying this every time.  

[Jolemai]

PRO TIP for Smash Cap:

 

ALWAYS declare EVERYTHING IN 12" as your target of the charge.

 

ALWAYS. This gives you options. Get used to saying this every time.

I've been burned by that before. Ended up rolling low and having to charge the nearest unit when a re-roll for the choicier target would have been a preference.

 

Just be aware of this.

[Panzer]

 

PRO TIP for Smash Cap:

 

ALWAYS declare EVERYTHING IN 12" as your target of the charge.

 

ALWAYS. This gives you options. Get used to saying this every time.

I've been burned by that before. Ended up rolling low and having to charge the nearest unit when a re-roll for the choicier target would have been a preference.

 

Just be aware of this.

 

 

Good point. If your re-roll only allows for failed charges to be re-rolled then you maybe don't want to do this after all.

[Morticon]

Veeeeeeerry good point!!!!!

[Demoulius]

I would like an anwser to this as well ive only played him 3 times mind you (in a local GW's tale of X campaign) and for some reason I cant roll a single bloody 3++ for him  

 

I run him with TH/SS, death visions and figt of foresight. So he SHOULD be tanky as all hell. But my dice say no

 

Anywhoooooo. Why wouldnt you get rerolls to charge if you multicharge? Aka the 'I declare all targets within 12 inch as my target'?

[Majkhel]

Anywhoooooo. Why wouldnt you get rerolls to charge if you multicharge? Aka the 'I declare all targets within 12 inch as my target'?

Because wording on the Angel's Wing relic is that you get to re-roll FAILED charges.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Majkhel