Runic Awakening: Speculation

[Wispy]

well, in my edit i say *i think* it's the wrong choice.

 

i work in game development as a game designer, so i can't think of any thing worse than taking a character a player has bought, assembled, painted, perhaps built their whole army around modeled, played games with and had their own narratives built around them... and then for me, mr designer/writer with a god complex, to take that character from the player and then tell them that no, your character no longer leader leads your army and he is in fact now dead.

 

the captain tycho thing may be a fine story arc for those of us who aren't invested in the character, but i gurantee there were folks building armies with captain tycho who were disapointed by this development.

 

this may make for less spicy storytelling but i think it's the right way to go about things. this isn't merely a narrative setting like Game of Thrones, what agency your players have playing games with your product matters.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Wispy

[Bryan Blaire]

Well, that's why I do my level damndest to never use a GW created character - it's never "your" character when it's made by someone else - they are the IP developer/owner and can do what they want with their characters. One should never assume that "my story" will ever override what an IP developer/owner decides to do with their material, that's the height of foolishness for any IP fan. You should be somewhat familiar with this idea since from what I've seen, you worked on other IP owners' products and that generally involves some creative limitations on exactly what you can develop (been on that end).

 

Case in point - Dawn of War & 2 to the table top and all the fan theories and stories.

 

And none of these GW characters have been so unique that building and modeling an army around a specific character is so impactful to the whole army that you could never use the army with any other character - that's a real stretch of an argument right there.

 

Maybe I was just rendered immune to this idea by Battletech and people playing "named characters" in RPGs, especially before the book series was ended.

 

Long story short, if you want creative control, don't use someone else's characters.

[Wispy]

that's true but a lot of fans engage through those characters and i think designers/writers should strive to respect that. edit: i mean, hell, i would be rioting if anything happened to harald deathwolf. i'd not be happy.

 

funny you mention DOW2. was a time early in my career where i stomped some player agency and i actually really regret it.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Wispy

[Bryan Blaire]

I guess I just don't understand getting wrapped up enough in someone else's creations to the point of "rioting" if the character died. They aren't mine and the creator can do with them what they want, regardless of my feelings on the subject - treat it with some respect, don't just discard them, etc.

 

A great number of the characters in 40K are easily slot-able given the right story, and the one thing we a son players have already lost in GW moving from "40K is just a setting with a few story elements each Edition" to "40K has a full on meta-story with numerous plots and resolutions in a single two-year cycle" is player agency. Getting back on that bus isn't happening. At this point, I'd much rather they just give us rule books divorced from the ever-evolving meta-fluff, but I can see how they are driving sales with it and the forward movement of sales is what keeps them in business, so I can't criticize it too much.

 

And it's funny you mention the "No, this character is now dead, he can't lead your army" - they just did that to the DA players for the 5th Company - and off screen even - even replaced him off screen... :o Think of all the poor robe-garbed players that bought Dark Vengeance! (Hell, I haven't even painted my Balthasar from that yet - but that's because I was too busy trying to figure out how to convert him for one of my own guys)

[PeteySödes]

I've spun this off:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358354-character-deaths/

 

For discussing character deaths as I think it is an interesting discussion. Lets keep this thread for discussing the possible direct threads that the Psychic Awakening could bring. Thanks Brothers. 

[Dark Shepherd]

I like this idea of Primarising Ragnar after Ghaz stomps him

 

If his faithful pet wolves die we definitely riot though

[Wulf Vengis]

I kinda like Dashings idea although i would change it a tiny bit.

 

Let the story play out as if Logan died. Even tell the audience he died and promote Ragnar to great wolf. Let Ragnar get a round 2 with Prime Ghaz but the rematch is going badly as well (because Ragnar will always be a bit of a cocky runt) until Logan returns to the field of battle accompanied by the Wolf King himself.

 

Maybe Ragnar becomes Wolf Lord primaris after this and Logan remains great wolf with Russ most likely leaving after this to go Terra and or the rock to find his lazy brother.

[Triszin]

I think, the only people with a chance of dying are In finecaste.

 

And even then most will be upgraded.

 

Death/dreadnaught

Canis (I like his concept but not the execution)

 

---- I would like, I think, canis wolfborn to go full wulfen. And he becomes a wulfen character that runs next to his t wolf.

 

Primaris:

Lukas

Ragnar

Njal

Arjac

Edited September 11, 2019 by Triszin

[Wulf Vengis]

Maybe We'll start seeing signs of the mark within the primarisized wolves. Not that we need that kind of extra heavy hitters but the fluff had reported that the Blood Angels primaris have started showing signs of...Black rage...or red thirst...one of those.

[Jarl Caldersson]

Maybe We'll start seeing signs of the mark within the primarisized wolves. Not that we need that kind of extra heavy hitters but the fluff had reported that the Blood Angels primaris have started showing signs of...Black rage...or red thirst...one of those.

 

We already have, in the lore some of the primaris went feral.

[TiguriusX]

 

 

Maybe We'll start seeing signs of the mark within the primarisized wolves. Not that we need that kind of extra heavy hitters but the fluff had reported that the Blood Angels primaris have started showing signs of...Black rage...or red thirst...one of those.

We already have, in the lore some of the primaris went feral.

the actual codex says this

[Dark Shepherd]

Arent Wulfen already primaris size though so to speak?

 

Though Id welcome Wulfen versions of anything

[Triszin]

Yes wulfen represent old and primaris

[RikuEru]

Arent Wulfen already primaris size though so to speak?

 

Though Id welcome Wulfen versions of anything

Yes wulfen represent old and primaris

Wulfen are already PERFECTLY Primaris sized. (Their weapons included!)

TS where the first 're-scaled' Chaos Marines.

Magnus was the first Primarch to re-emerge.

 

And the Stormwolf/Stormfang already had the Wulfen Symbol on some of the decorative bits...

 

*hands out tinfoil hats*

The Wrath of Magnus was the actual kick-off of the new Era... all caused by the leak! I am sure!

 

(Joking, mostly...)

 

But yea, they will stay the way they are.

And they already fill a very versatile melee role, while being pretty hardy.

 

I'd still love a Wolf Guard Unit tho.

Not a raging, frothing berserker horde, but bulky, noble warriors slowly but steadily walking into the battlefield.

[Yoyo ninja]

 

Arent Wulfen already primaris size though so to speak?

 

Though Id welcome Wulfen versions of anything

Yes wulfen represent old and primaris

Wulfen are already PERFECTLY Primaris sized. (Their weapons included!)

TS where the first 're-scaled' Chaos Marines.

Magnus was the first Primarch to re-emerge.

 

And the Stormwolf/Stormfang already had the Wulfen Symbol on some of the decorative bits...

 

*hands out tinfoil hats*

The Wrath of Magnus was the actual kick-off of the new Era... all caused by the leak! I am sure!

 

(Joking, mostly...)

 

But yea, they will stay the way they are.

And they already fill a very versatile melee role, while being pretty hardy.

 

I'd still love a Wolf Guard Unit tho.

Not a raging, frothing berserker horde, but bulky, noble warriors slowly but steadily walking into the battlefield.

Didn't the Wulfens designer state outright that the Wulfen were designed along side primaris marines and the size of the primaris marines were kept in mind so the Wulfen wouldn't look out of place next to them?

 

I really can't see them killing off logan, his model is too new and I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't paid for all the tooling on his mold yet, his rules haven't been great since he came out, so people ain't rushing to buy him.

And I doubt they will kill ragnar either, his great company insignia is in every kit and would need another rubbish reason why the new wolf lord kept it (like when Egil died).

As this thing is seemingly all about psykers, I'd imagine Njal getting some attention, even a new primaris model.

It would be nice to see some chapter specific primaris characters as well. Could have a duel Njal/primaris rune priest kit, might be cool.

A Wolf priest model would be great, as we don't have a model for this. But that's just me wish listing.

[NatBrannigan]

It'll be interesting to see when new Primaris kits stop being available for everyone and we get a Codex Only, Blood Angels only, Wolves only etc kit. So far they've all be generic (except the characters and Ultramarines Guard things) but at some point they'll need to differentiate between the different kinds of Marines.

 

Almost certainly be a Codex unit Wolves don't get access to first, be interesting to see what that is!

 

Agree that Wulfen are Primaris already, they're just missing the keyword (same with the Stormwolf, just needs to be able to carry Primaris troops as well), so maybe we already have the first unique "Primaris" troop option?

 

Gaz vs Ragnar, that's a box I'm looking forward to!

[Triszin]

I think the first chapter specific primaris are still 1.5 years away,minimum.

 

We still need wave 3, heavy troopers and cqc.

I see wave 4 as the chapter specific units

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I honestly think divergence from codex in the heavy and cqc slots as the most likely path. Making those units be the variant units sounds like a good place to split from the every gets theme stuff world we live in now

[Triszin]

Every codex will have cqc imho. But there will be chapter specific variants for non codex.

 

 

Ba: flight tech sword and board/flamerpistol

Da: heavy troopers with sword

Sw: medium troopers with double headed axes and bolt carbines

 

Imho, or something akin

[Jarl Caldersson]

Every codex will have cqc imho. But there will be chapter specific variants for non codex.

Ba: flight tech sword and flamerpistol

Da: heavy troopers with sword

Sw: medium troopers with double headed axes and SS.

Imho, or something akin

Fixed that. BA aren't really know for using shields, while SW have more SS options that any other chapter and use them more frequently in the lore (well lore in the last 5 years)

[NatBrannigan]

Sounds about right I'd say. It does beg the question of what Wolves will get in this (reliably) rumoured Ragnar vs Gazz box though. Obviously a Primaris Ragnar but is it just another box of generic Primaris Marines with a Space Wolf upgrade sprue? Insert sad face here if that's true, but I can't think of what else they'd release at this point.

 

If it's a Space Wolf only close combat unit with power weapons (it won't be) we'll have Black Templar players burning Space Wolf codeicies in some kind of manic ritual ;)

[Triszin]

The rumor imho, is 3 kits.

 

Ghaz kit

Ragnar kit

And a box set Ork vs wolves ( that wont have ghaz or Ragnar in it)

Edited September 12, 2019 by Triszin

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Is there a timeline with that rumor?

[Triszin]

Is there a timeline with that rumor?

nope

[Dark Shepherd]

I think they have to do more than just existing units in the boxset (even if not SW specific units)

 

As theyve already done that for SW with Tooth & Claw and the Ork players will want something new to motivate them to buy it. Theres also been the Apocalypse formations for generic stuff for both factions