Rites of Passage

[Kelborn]

To sum things up, we got 3 pages about sexuality, politics and such.

 

Quite surprised that we don't have the regular spoiler based discussion which makes me questioning if this one's worth it for the sake of the story itself, what it adds to the greatest story, etc.

 

I'm proud that the current discussion ran smoothly and civilized until now.

 

I got the impression that this can continue in a seperate thread. In here, we should return to the novel itself.

[aa.logan]

It’s totally worth reading.

 

I’m not sure if I’m the only person in the previous three pages of talk to have actually read the book, but I haven’t included any spoilers due to a combination of trying to discuss books the abstract and avoid revealing plot points and being flummoxed by spoiler tags.

[StrangerOrders]

It’s totally worth reading.

 

I’m not sure if I’m the only person in the previous three pages of talk to have actually read the book, but I haven’t included any spoilers due to a combination of trying to discuss books the abstract and avoid revealing plot points and being flummoxed by spoiler tags.

Havent read the book but I have been making an effort to milk you for the information. :D

 

To build on the Highlord angle, is it clarified how the houses rank themselves? Any particular titles and such. 

[Urauloth]

A bit of an aside...I'd love to read a novel about a society that follows Chaos but whose citizens are arguably better off than average Imperial citizens.

 

I think that's every world the Death Guard visit these days. If you're not sure about the quality of life improvements, you should give the spores a little more time to settle in. 

 

Regarding the novel (sorry if this was already addressed and I missed it) how similar is the prose here to Dark Run from a few years ago, if anyone's read both? I'm curious about a navigator-centric tale, but I really didn't enjoy the writing there. Sometimes you just bounce off an author's style.

[StrangerOrders]

 

A bit of an aside...I'd love to read a novel about a society that follows Chaos but whose citizens are arguably better off than average Imperial citizens.

 

I think that's every world the Death Guard visit these days. If you're not sure about the quality of life improvements, you should give the spores a little more time to settle in. 

 

Regarding the novel (sorry if this was already addressed and I missed it) how similar is the prose here to Dark Run from a few years ago, if anyone's read both? I'm curious about a navigator-centric tale, but I really didn't enjoy the writing there. Sometimes you just bounce off an author's style.

 

Thats me with a few writers. Couldnt tell you why but with some books (I listen more than read) the style gives me fierce and sudden headaches.

 

Couldnt finish Crimson King (and McNeil in general) and I actually felt sick with Solar War, this authors triggers a similar reaction in me. Sort of why I am just asking the OP because I am dubious I could actually get through the book.

[b1soul]

What was so bad about Solar War?

[StrangerOrders]

What was so bad about Solar War?

Nothing in the writing (and most of my issues feel more to do with BL than anything French did) and French is one of my favourite BL writers. 

 

I was being literal about style, some Audiobooks just give me very strong headaches. I have no idea why, I just can't get through some of them.

[Marshal Rohr]

Probably because for like six chapters they didn’t even try not to make Uranus sound like it was a joke.

[aa.logan]

If you’ve read any of Mike Brooks’ Keiko books, you’ll be familiar with his authorial voice, it certainly is by the same writer- but those books feel to me like they could quite easily slot into the 40k universe, so it’s no bad thing. He writes dialogue well, and it’s nicely paced and plotted. The characters are well-rounded with plausible motivations, and the lead is likeable without actually being that nice. It does perhaps get a little silly towards the end- to be honest I’d have been more than happy if the book had just focused on the inter-house machinations, but I can see why the narrative went the way that it did.

[StrangerOrders]

 

If you’ve read any of Mike Brooks’ Keiko books, you’ll be familiar with his authorial voice, it certainly is by the same writer- but those books feel to me like they could quite easily slot into the 40k universe, so it’s no bad thing. He writes dialogue well, and it’s nicely paced and plotted. The characters are well-rounded with plausible motivations, and the lead is likeable without actually being that nice. It does perhaps get a little silly towards the end- to be honest I’d have been more than happy if the book had just focused on the inter-house machinations, but I can see why the narrative went the way that it did.

 

Just my two cents but without giving the ending away i have to agree (I picked up what happened on another site).

 

For my money there is an irksome need at times in BL to jam in the presence of another faction in a book which is frankly best left internal. Sort of how alot of really good political dramas in the setting or exploration books have big action scenes crammed in that feel almost jarring compared to the rest of the book.

 

Unremembered Empire, Fulgrim: The Palatine Phoenix, Black Legion, Emperor's Gift, Praetorian of Dorn and the Vaults of Terra are just some examples I can think of where I almost audibly groaned when I got to the action scenes. Not that they were bad by any means but they did feel like they detracted from the over all book and interrupted the worldbuilding and character interactions that really made the book.

 

The antagonist and last bits of Rites by my understanding fall victim to this same habit, which sort of leaves me wondering if Brooks was mandated to put them in. He himself is honest iirc about not really being that into action scenes despite his comfort with them and when I heard about it I was really confused by its presence.

[Lord_Caerolion]

At the risk of going off-topic, Vaults of Terra works, in that it brings it in to a much larger intrigue, and looks to be being set up to resolve a previously-mentioned plot-hook in the previous rulebook that has been left unresolved as of yet.

[theSpirea]

Finally got my copy and started reading it. I'm one third in and I haven't noticed a single "controversial" thing. I have mentioned it before, I'm not a big fan of Brooks' writing and my opinion hasn't changed. The book is alright, the Chetta's part is interesting and I like what Brooks came up with lore-wise about Navigators. Radimir's part is a weak part, at least for me and for now. We'll see how the plot is going to progress further on.

[Roomsky]

B&C making a mountain out of a molehill?

 

Preposterous.

[Xisor]

I read this almost as soon as it came out.

 

I'm with aa. on this 100%. It felt like a more alive, plausible book than many I've read in 40k. Whilst some people nail down the *theme* of 40k, or illuminate some of the pieces in great ways, I'm honestly shocked by both how deeply characterful this was, how deeply systematic it was (Arbites, navy, Dock works, bartenders, librarians, Navigator politics, factional politics, scribes, archivists, Rogue Traders, interplanetary trade, cosmic mechanics, human decency, pragmatism, principles of ethics and morality weighed against realpolitik...), it felt so light and comfortable. Gripping, but about as far from forced as possible.

 

I'm not sure Brooks' style exactly sings to my soul (I tend to prefer more "long-winded" prose, more detailed descriptions and a whole lot more naval gazing), I'm absolutely thrilled that it's both "not my cup of tea", and yet an amazingly readable, intriguing, stimulating and fascinating book.

 

Like, it's me outside my comfort zone as a reader, nevertheless being comfortable and having fun.

 

It's rare for authors to do that so well. (And apt that both Justin D Hill and Rachel Harrison have books out this year - I think the three of them nail that style. Stuff that I don't think I'd like - that if you described it to me I might roll my eyes and think "yeah, but where's the philosophical sophistry about the nature of the fight against Chaos!? Or what it means to be an inhuman monster?!", but that when I actually read the damn book...

 

It's bloody good.

 

---

 

So yeah, I'm thrilled by Brooks' stuff. And I'm keen to get on with Terminal: Overkill too, as Necromunda is a tremendous source of this, for me!

[Roomsky]

This was a wonderful out of the ordinary read. Politics and intrigue drives most all of the book and it's wonderful to just live in 40k for a while. Even the last quarter, unfortunately the weakest part, is still a pretty out there variation of the usual Chaos plot. It's twists and turns all the way down, and despite some structural issues, is absolutely worth the read. Brooks' prose is alright, but the character driven nature of things hooks you when the writing itself does not. It also does well in injecting a lot of the mundane into the bombast of 40k, most prominently the amount of gruntwork Radimir has to put up with, despite having what would normally be an absolutely broken set of abilities.

 

Good stuff, the unique nature of the book far outweighs its flaws.

[Roomsky]

The amount of review-bombing this book has gotten on sites like Amazon and Goodreads over a single chapter is absolutely mad.

[mc warhammer]

The amount of review-bombing this book has gotten on sites like Amazon and Goodreads over a single chapter is absolutely mad.

 

idk if i wanna ask

[Marshal Vespasian]

Is this because of the ad mech Charakter being referred to as 'they' not he/she?

40k badcast were talking about this

[Felix Antipodes]

While it had a few flat spots, I really enjoyed it overall for its look behind the veil of the Navigator Houses and their politics. Am I the only one who kept hearing Maggie Smith every time Chetta speaks?

[Marshal Rohr]

Maggie Smith’s wit mixed with Shohreh Aghdashloo’s tone is what I’m getting.

[theSpirea]

For me, this was the weakest BL book I've read this year so far. Quite predictable, week characters that I couldn't care about, and I'm not a big fan of Brook's writing. Still glad people are enjoying and I'm happy we're seeing more and more books not focused on the combat/SMs

[StrangerOrders]

The amount of review-bombing this book has gotten on sites like Amazon and Goodreads over a single chapter is absolutely mad.

That is sort of absurd.

 

 

For me, this was the weakest BL book I've read this year so far. Quite predictable, week characters that I couldn't care about, and I'm not a big fan of Brook's writing. Still glad people are enjoying and I'm happy we're seeing more and more books not focused on the combat/SMs

Its kinda funny how 40k is based off a wargame but I am far more interested in any book where combat is light or really shunted.

 

I sometimes wonder if BL accidentally created a setting where you want to know more about history, society, logistics and politics than the actual battles. Even with SMs, most of the time the culture and personalities of a given chapter/legion/warband are considerably more interesting than whatever battle they randomly shove in to trim the cast.

[Roomsky]

For those curious there is a planetary governor referred to as "ve, vis/ver" for essentially 1 chapter, as a minor side character. It has no impact on the story and the other characters don't once comment on it. I bring this up because on the same sites Imperator gets far less ire despite having a main character using gender-neutral pronouns throughout the whole book. It's bizarre. I honestly feel bad for Brooks, considering I think he wrote a pretty novel, and I worry it might send the wrong message about people's reactions to more intrigue-based 40k.

 

And here's an unrelated comment in case Kelborn decides to break my legs:

 

 

Its kinda funny how 40k is based off a wargame but I am far more interested in any book where combat is light or really shunted.

 

I sometimes wonder if BL accidentally created a setting where you want to know more about history, society, logistics and politics than the actual battles. Even with SMs, most of the time the culture and personalities of a given chapter/legion/warband are considerably more interesting than whatever battle they randomly shove in to trim the cast.

 

 

I definitely fall into that crowd. I feel there's plenty of room for both in the fiction and while we've seen a wonderful rise in Domestic 40k as of late, there's no real reason we can't have more. There's a reason ASoIaF is so popular, and it's not the "epic" battles. Genuine intrigue or character writing will trump 400 pages of marines shooting things any day.

[StrangerOrders]

For those curious there is a planetary governor referred to as "ve, vis/ver" for essentially 1 chapter, as a minor side character. It has no impact on the story and the other characters don't once comment on it. I bring this up because on the same sites Imperator gets far less ire despite having a main character using gender-neutral pronouns throughout the whole book. It's bizarre. I honestly feel bad for Brooks, considering I think he wrote a pretty novel, and I worry it might send the wrong message about people's reactions to more intrigue-based 40k.

 

And here's an unrelated comment in case Kelborn decides to break my legs:

 

 

Its kinda funny how 40k is based off a wargame but I am far more interested in any book where combat is light or really shunted.

 

I sometimes wonder if BL accidentally created a setting where you want to know more about history, society, logistics and politics than the actual battles. Even with SMs, most of the time the culture and personalities of a given chapter/legion/warband are considerably more interesting than whatever battle they randomly shove in to trim the cast.

 

 

I definitely fall into that crowd. I feel there's plenty of room for both in the fiction and while we've seen a wonderful rise in Domestic 40k as of late, there's no real reason we can't have more. There's a reason ASoIaF is so popular, and it's not the "epic" battles. Genuine intrigue or character writing will trump 400 pages of marines shooting things any day.

Well... that is an awfully goofy reason to speak ill of a book. Much less devout the time to go trash it.

 

On the second point... idk, I actually find that marines are far more interesting between battles than in battle. They just provide something very different in intrigue based books or books dealing with culture.

 

Its hit or miss but when done right, Astartes feel so completely yet utterly inhuman. I think that some writers go for man-children and other writers go for things which are just divorced from a mundane point of reference.

 

And it is interesting watching something like that engage with humans.

 

This goes with alot of factions really, 40k is rife with things that were originally just silly and lampoons but the years have evolved the setting into something truly unique I think. A world of such staggering scale that while you can go with the simplistic "Everyone is an ignorant simpleton' route, the work of dozens of authors have made a menagerie of alien and interesting cultures (usually human ones to boot, which is better than Sci-Fis terrible habit of acting as if different cultures and worldviews is something you 'grow past'.