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Venerable dread vs contemptor mortis dread


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#1
Mcha0s92

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What would you pick in your list a ven dread with lascannons and missile launcher or a contemptor mortis with double lascannons?
Contemptor pros:5++ save, 2 more wounds and 1 more lascannon shot; cons degradable profile, 28 points more than the venerable( not counting the cyclone launcher but i don't like it very much) and no 6+++ save.
Thoughts?

#2
casb1965

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The answer could greatly vary depending on which Chapter you play.



#3
WarriorFish

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The Contemptor is faster too, though that doesn't mean a huge amount especially if your plan is to shoot. I think the Contemptor is a bit better here as while you do pay a bit more you also get more. The 6+++ is nice but more of a bonus, it's not something to build or plan around. The 5++ will help it weather some AT fire a bit better which will help it stay shooting, so ideally the degrading profile isn't too much of an issue ;)

 

A lot depends on the Chapter you're playing too (for example Iron Hands means they both have a 6+++), but I don't think the difference between them is large enough for it to be a big deal if you go for one over the other. I also think the shooting build evens it out more, as in combat if you're up against nasties that 5++ can make all the difference.


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#4
CCE1981

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I tried to use Dreadnoughts/Venerable Dreadnoughts at the start of 8th, they all died the moment and anti-tank weapon shot at them.  The Contemptor Mortis Dreadnoughts with the Twin Lascannons actually survive being shot at.  With a 2+ BS the degrading profile isn't that bad.  As for the price, subtract half the price of a twin Lascannon and that is only 8 pts for 2x T7 wounds.


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#5
Halandaar

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Sure, a Venerable keeps it's 2+ BS regardless of damage taken, but it can obviously only fire as long as it remains alive. The extra survivability on the Contemptor is going to keep it going longer into the game.

 

Hitting on a 3+ with a damaged Contemptor is better than firing no shots with a dead Venerable.


Edited by Halandaar, 12 September 2019 - 11:44 AM.

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#6
Volt

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Look at it this way. Mortis Contemptors are just an objectively better, cheaper Predator for barely any noticeable loss of durability (arguably more durable thanks to the 5++). I don't even compare them to normal boxnoughts because they're simply in another league of cheap and reliable AT.


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#7
Mcha0s92

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Sorry i should have said that i plan to play them as ultramarine successor( inheritors trait) or as a iron hand successor( inheritor trait here too)

#8
WarriorFish

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For Iron Hands the Contemptor is an even better deal, as the Venerable doesn't benefit from the double up of the 6+++. There's still room for both of course (because Iron Hands), but if you were picking ;)

 

I'd consider a DCCW too for close support, that 2+ to hit goes very far and offers some real punch. Maybe less so with Ultras who can avoid getting stumped in combat better, but it always felt a waste not to be getting use from those four attacks. It depends on the intended role and what you might be up against as fire support can stand back and shoot, until your opponent comes in from reserves to be pesky for example!


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#9
crazyterran

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Contemptor Mortis also go in the Heavy Slot and aren’t relics, so they can, say, be a slot filler for your relic leviathans.

#10
Mcha0s92

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For Iron Hands the Contemptor is an even better deal, as the Venerable doesn't benefit from the double up of the 6+++. There's still room for both of course (because Iron Hands), but if you were picking ;)

I'd consider a DCCW too for close support, that 2+ to hit goes very far and offers some real punch. Maybe less so with Ultras who can avoid getting stumped in combat better, but it always felt a waste not to be getting use from those four attacks. It depends on the intended role and what you might be up against as fire support can stand back and shoot, until your opponent comes in from reserves to be pesky for example!

No dccw for me cause i want a mortis dread otherwise i have to get the relic contemptor and i don't like how many points you sink for 2 wounds more and a 2+

I tried to use Dreadnoughts/Venerable Dreadnoughts at the start of 8th, they all died the moment and anti-tank weapon shot at them. The Contemptor Mortis Dreadnoughts with the Twin Lascannons actually survive being shot at. With a 2+ BS the degrading profile isn't that bad. As for the price, subtract half the price of a twin Lascannon and that is only 8 pts for 2x T7 wounds.

The new strat and the iron hand trait will make them good again i think especially leviathans

#11
Mcha0s92

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Contemptor Mortis also go in the Heavy Slot and aren’t relics, so they can, say, be a slot filler for your relic leviathans.

Yup that was my thought too

#12
chapter master 454

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Ven dread all the way. 5++ imo ain't worth having degrading profiles unless ofcourse you go iron hands so the contemptor is firing at full effect even when at a wound count that would kill a dreadnought.

 

Otherwise, just save the points and put them elsewhere imo. Again, it is just a case of Iron Hands changing the ball park for dreadnoughts.


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#13
Volt

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Ven dread all the way. 5++ imo ain't worth having degrading profiles unless ofcourse you go iron hands so the contemptor is firing at full effect even when at a wound count that would kill a dreadnought.

 

Otherwise, just save the points and put them elsewhere imo. Again, it is just a case of Iron Hands changing the ball park for dreadnoughts.

It's not cheaper. The venerable is 70 point per lascannon profile and 17.5 point per wound package. The contemptor mortis is 42 points per lascannon and 16.8 points per wound on the model. It is more efficient than the venerable in every regard. Also you have vastly greater odds of rolling 5++'s to defeat hits than you do 6+++'s to remove individual wounds.


Edited by Volt, 11 September 2019 - 08:30 PM.

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#14
Mandragola

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Definitely the contemptor Mortis for me too. It’s a very decent dreadnought. As others have said, it’s better to be degraded than dead. A missile launcher is far worse than a lascannon with so much T8 around.

That said, I think I prefer the deredeo over both of them. An iron hands one, hitting on a 2+ with rerolls is a great dakka bot now. It’s a relic but you’re almost certain to be bringing something elite or other in an army where dreads are so good.

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#15
CCE1981

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I bring three Twin Lascannon Mortis Contemptor Dreadnoughts and a Leviathan.

#16
Ishagu

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Contemptor Mortis is superior, imo. For several reasons:

More firepower
More durable
More mobile

It costs more of course, and use will vary from Chapter to Chapter.

Edited by Ishagu, 12 September 2019 - 09:53 AM.

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#17
Cornishman

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For backfield support I'm in the contemptor mortis club.

So case for the Venerable Dread - The Contemptor profile degrades. Venerable is cheaper, Has 6++ applied per wound

For the Contemptor Mortis - 5++ is really handy, 9" vs 6" of movement is really useful, Has 4 A-T shots vs 3.

The key for me is 4 lascannon shots vs 2 lascannon shots + a krak missile. Those extra points gets you a extra shot (with a better AT profile). With the enhanced doctorines a key perk of Ultramarines (and thier Successors) and IH is being able to move and fire without penalty so the 3" extra movement is really handy in being able to move around terrian.

For IH as you double the no. of wounds left, and everything gets 6+++ so it's the Contemptor Mortis all the way.

If you want to get really expensive the a Relic Contemptor is even more robust than the mortis...

At 142 pts I'm a fan of a Ven Dread with a fist with stormbolter and twin lascannons.


Edited by Cornishman, 12 September 2019 - 10:02 AM.





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