In the Grim Darkness, There is Only... Infrared?

[Arendious]

While I'm not holding out hope for an exhaustive look at the technical details of Imperial armaments, does either 'Wings of Vengeance' or the Rynn's World campaign book expound on Skystrike (and Hellstrike) missiles at any length?

[Fajita Fan]

I'm scrolling through it and there's no technical section about the planes or armaments.  Both missiles exist in the 40k universe, the Hellstrikes are on Valkyries so there might be something in the Guard codex or a FW book.  I have some of them at home, remind me to look.

[Steel Company]

Based on how the Hellstreak missiles are mounted, I've got a good feeling that they are A.G.M.'s (Air to Ground Missiles) so not that useful for air to air engagements...

[Fajita Fan]

That's what the Skystrikes are for, each one has a separate rule.

[Steel Company]

I know, but he was asking about both types...

[Arendious]

I should learn not to post while half-asleep - I left about half my thoughts out...

Mostly, I was wondering if the books discussed what sort of guidance Imperial missiles use. Lexicanum mentions that Skystrikes are Infrared guided, but only in the most general of terms. And I haven't seen any real information on how Hellstrikes find their way to targets (EO/IR, laser, "GPS", etc). I'd hoped the Specialist Games team had gone down the Forgeworld path of doing deep (or deeper, at least) dives into the nuts and bolts.

[Beaky Brigade]

No there is no new technical data in the book. I honestly think that is for the best as IMO technical data (tables of stats specifically, not written background) for 'made up' things only serves to create arguments between armchair experts on the subject and people who think the lore can never be wrong or badly thought out

I would suggest 'Skystrikes' and 'Hellstrikes' come in a variety of patterns produced by different forge worlds, and each pattern may use a different type of guidance or a mix of guidances depending on the technology available. I would guess that the crudest Hellstrikes are just heavy dumbfire rockets, while the most advanced pattern have a servitor brain with the target ritually programmed into it.

That's not a satisfying answer I know, but that's the nature of the setting

I would say the Imperials also don't appear to have beyond visual range missiles because the game is about dogfights and they wouldn't serve any purpose in the game. It would be like playing BFG with ordnance only! I would say they probably exist in the setting somewhere.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Beaky Brigade

[Arendious]

No there is no new technical data in the book. I honestly think that is for the best as IMO technical data (tables of stats specifically, not written background) for 'made up' things only serves to create arguments between armchair experts on the subject and people who think the lore can never be wrong or badly thought out

I would suggest 'Skystrikes' and 'Hellstrikes' come in a variety of patterns produced by different forge worlds, and each pattern may use a different type of guidance or a mix of guidances depending on the technology available. I would guess that the crudest Hellstrikes are just heavy dumbfire rockets, while the most advanced pattern have a servitor brain with the target ritually programmed into it.

 

That's not a satisfying answer I know, but that's the nature of the setting

 

I would say the Imperials also don't appear to have beyond visual range missiles because the game is about dogfights and they wouldn't serve any purpose in the game. It would be like playing BFG with ordnance only! I would say they probably exist in the setting somewhere.

 

I would unapologetically play that. (I did spam Cobra squadrons in BFG, back in the day.) 

 

As a 'beeps 'n squeeks' kinda guy, I adore diving into technical data, even if made up and a little ridiculous. Even a handwave like "BVR rarely happens because every race has nigh-impervious ECM at range" would be satisfying, but I agree it's also not really the nature of the setting.

[Fajita Fan]

Both missiles use the EGS system.  The Emperor Guidance System uses His divine will to strike the enemies of the Imperium.  

[Exilyth]

Codex: Space Marines has a blurb about how the missiles fired by the hunter AA tank use the brains of chapter serfs as guidance - skystrike missiles probably use something that's easier to mass produce.

[Arendious]

Codex: Space Marines has a blurb about how the missiles fired by the hunter AA tank use the brains of chapter serfs as guidance - skystrike missiles probably use something that's easier to mass produce.

That seems wildly inefficient, ridiculous both logistically and operationally, and thoroughly in keeping with the Imperial mindset...

 

But, even that doesn't really account for how those brains are "seeing" their victims.

[Fajita Fan]

None of the books I have contain what you're looking for but there's various wikis with source information.

 

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Skystrike_Missile

 

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Hellstrike_Missile

 

Is that the technical info you're looking for?  The AI rulebook is very scant on vehicle fluff.  This is much better info:

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Thunderbolt

[Kilofix]

Ok the old Imperial Armor Aeronautica, and Imperial Armor Taros Campaign books describe the following:

 

1. Aircraft can take IR Targeting as optional equipment that gives them the Night Vision rule. I assume this is akin to an IRST on contemporary MiG-29, etc.

 

2. Hunter Killer Missiles are Krak Missiles that are optically guided by a mini logis engine in the warhead. Basically part of what was a human brain, connected to a bionic optic, that can recognize a particular image and can steer the missile to it. Because of this guidance, it can be launched from long range (effectively unlimited table top range)

 

3. Hellstrikes are basically just an aircraft mounted version of the Hunter Killer, fired from aircraft traveling at higher velocity. Hence - I assume it’s the same IO guidance. I also assume the 48” tabletop range as opposed to the HK’s unlimited range is some quirk of its AtG use.

 

4. Other missiles like Skystrikes have the Heat Seeker rule that allows rerolls of failed to-Hit. I assume this likely the same mini logis engine - but one hooked up to some sort of thermal imager.

 

5. Aircraft can take Flare and Chaff as optional equipment that provides Invul Saves. I assume Chaff in this case doesn’t confound radar - but are rather some sort of optically reflective strips that confound the logis engine.

 

 

But that said, we also do know from Imperial Armor Anphelion - in the Elysian D-99 section that:

 

6. Long Range Scanners exist. I assume this is Radar as it’s function is described as including “Long Range Sweep” and “Short Range Lock”. Though whether this is only standalone or whether it can possibly be incorporated somehow into a weapon system is hard to confirm.

 

 

Edit - Just to clarify; The statements above, before where I say “I assume...”, are straight out of the IA books. The statements after are my conjecture.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Kilofix

[Marshal Rohr]

Imperial missiles use the nervous system of people for guidance systems. Wade Pryce jokes about it in a podcast. Forge World has an upgrade in the game that is basically servitor assisted targeting, too. Since machine logic is forbidden in the Imperium I can see it fitting in. Edited September 14, 2019 by Marshal Rohr

[Bryan Blaire]

And it's so perfectly Imperial that the best guidance system is a chunk of human brain tissue - depending on what part and how much, you might be looking at a five or six pack of missiles per failed factory worker - and then there can be gallows jokes about how working at the missile factory really let's you put part of yourself into what you make.

 

I actually wrote a short piece one time about Imperial encryption systems that use paired neural tissues in both ends of the system to encode and decode messages, and they are permanently burned out after the use.

 

Sometimes the Imperium just has to let its freak flag fly, right?