angrom Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 Hi All, So it seems obvious that these two will benefit a lot in an iron hand army. So if you had to choose between the two as your army center piece which one would you choose? From my perspective any of the two will be a priority target for your opponent and we can use them as a brick shield that will absorb all firepower coming at them. I guess the obvious weakness if being tied up in combat by hordes or very strong multi damage units. In that sense both offers a very strong firepower source in our army (the leviathan probably better at killing T7 tanks, MEQ hordes such as intercessors) but the executioner have the Fly keyword which is very valuable. The problem I see is that even if on the paper the executioner seems to be a better choice it is still going down with some strong firepower such as many las-cannon shots where the leviathan is almost un-killable with the half damage stratagem and the relic. Also the 20 shots and two heavy flamers with overwatch on 5+ should be more than enough to finish a horde trying to block them in combat with the help of some character heroic interventions. What is the best choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCE1981 Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 My Codex 8.0 Leviathans could face tank all anti-tank/Titanic firepower for 2x turns minimum. I think they’re golden, based off the vanilla half damage Stratagem I think they will go up in points....significantly. That is outside of what Iron Hands can do with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 Both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johanhgg Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 My leviathan has been the hero of the last 3 battles ive fought. Takes a TON of beating and simply shrug it off. And gives alot of hurt back. My opponents never have been able to ignore him because hes not just a tank, he destroyes whole units. That has left my trio of contemptors free reign. And a techmarine babysitting (now it will be the new char) he just get repaired when those few damage manage to get through. He’ll be even better now when i dont have to pay CPs to get full BS. Those Dreadnoughts and my rapiers with quadbolters or laserdestroyers, just tear through my enemies. So i recomend leviathan. Im about to order a second one :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrom Posted September 14, 2019 Author Share Posted September 14, 2019 That's good to hear. Then how do you deal with armies that will try to rush at you to block you in melee? Are you relying on the 5+ overwatch? Just using smart screening with cheap tactical squads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faithonwings Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 Scouts... Move block them 9" away from there deployment zone, nowhere near your's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero88 Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 Proceed with caution, Leviathans will probably (and rightly so) get nerfed, they should have been a long time ago. The model looks cool as hell though Exilyth 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silas7 Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 Proceed with caution, Leviathans will probably (and rightly so) get nerfed, they should have been a long time ago. The model looks cool as hell though nothing wrong with levi's, it's the strats that take things over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johanhgg Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 I screen mine with aggressors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 They shouldn't be nerfed as they aren't overpowered when used by other chapters. Maybe limit the stratagems that can be used on them. Subtleknife 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faithonwings Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 how good levi's are very much depends on the enemy you are facing. Against stuff with a decent invul saves their damage output becomes far less. Also, when facing a horde army's I'm pretty sure their not going to make their points. (againts knight the do about 10 damage a turn maybe??) Their very good against some targets. Primaris marines, bikes, T7 vehicles, flyers (without to many - to hit bonussen that is) It's like most models, some are good against some machups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuul Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 That's good to hear. Then how do you deal with armies that will try to rush at you to block you in melee? Are you relying on the 5+ overwatch? Just using smart screening with cheap tactical squads? Make him a character and give him warlord trait to move 6 inches on consolidation, now enemy cannot lock you in combat, unless he fully surrounds you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Maybe the nerf will be some of the IH strats won't work with FW dreads or just the levi. Levi is already a lot of points, not fair to bump it up because only IH make them crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quasistellar Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 The more I think about it the more I'd like to see a rules/stat nerf to the Levi. It's just got too many things in a chassis that's crazy durable. I'm saying this as a person who has 2 of these things (one still needs assembled). In another thread I mentioned reducing the stormcannons to 8 shots and reducing the range invuln of the chassis. Anyway, back to the OP: take both! They do different things. If you can only buy one. . . Idk it's hard. I feel like the executioner will be more "generally" viable and supported in the future. It's got longer range main gun, has fly, etc. But the Leviathan is just a ridiculously awesome model and right now has awesome rules. I guess I'd just get whatever fills the current hole in your army. If you need more specific anti tank get the executioner. If you need more general marine, elite, and light tank killing at mid range, get the Levi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) I fear that Leviathans and Mortis Dreads will be spammed and before you know it they will be nerfed and ruined for everyone... Edited September 16, 2019 by Ishagu MegaVolt87 and Silas7 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 I fear that Leviathans and Mortis Dreads will be spammed and before you know it they will be nerfed and ruined for everyone... Kind of like how the Blood Angels' Slamguinius build got how many things nerfed? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emperorpants Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 I'd even be fine if they just changed the relic that gives -1 damage to things to not working on a levi. I know it's not a huge difference, but rolling a 6 for damage after actually wounding a levi and only doing 2 actual damage just feels so much worse than doing 3 damage on a 6. Subtleknife 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Back in 7th edition there was a rule for the Leviathan where it didn't benefit from Chapter Tactics because it was an ancient relic, kept in stasis, largely seperate from the chapter. I just think that Leviathans and Mortis Dreads are able to abuse the rules significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Abuse the rules? They're made better by them, but that seems like an odd way of putting it that implies some wrongdoing, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 Abuse the rules? They're made better by them, but that seems like an odd way of putting it that implies some wrongdoing, lol. Have you tried a Leviathan with Iron Hands rules and auras? It's mathematically harder to destroy than a Castellan with a 3++ How about 3 Mortis Dreads shooting 12 Las Cannons at your army and you're unable to shoot back at them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 No, I haven't tried either of those things. But if I did, or even if I faced either of those, I certainly wouldn't consider it abuse of any sort. Just a bizarre way of looking at things, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) Well I did just try them, and trust me - they have the maximum level of feel bad factor when facing them or playing them. Some well known people in the community have described possible IH lists as being "Toxic" for the game, unfortunately. Edited September 17, 2019 by Ishagu Khornestar and emperorpants 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 That much I can understand and even appreciate, but I guess philosophically I don't consider combining the most powerful units/rules in the games to be abusive. There were already ridiculously cheesy units and combos. Now Iron Hands stuff is potentially among them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) Hopefully GW doesn't cut off its nose to spite its face in regards to nerfing FW dreads for everyone instead of just limiting the synergy with IH. They did it before, you could not use the FW preds with Kill Shot for example. Though not hopeful as it seems executioner had a points buff just because of IH. Even if FW dreads get a hard nerf, IH will still be called "toxic" because they ruined FW dreads for everyone. No winners in that scenario. Edited September 17, 2019 by MegaVolt87 Ishagu and emperorpants 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 (edited) They could take away Chapter Tactics and Stratagem use from any relic or FW unit. It's part of the army but listed as unaligned, but still keeps AoD rules. Just to clarify, I run FW units in basically all of my lists - I LOVE them! It's just that I trialled the IH rules and they really are toxic when applied to specific units. It's bad for the game potentially. Edited September 18, 2019 by Ishagu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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