Another "Help a newbie" thread...

[Vermintide]

Seems like half the threads in this subform are "Help I'm new to goth elfs, what do!"

My girlfriend recently started getting into Dark Eldar. Naturally she wants me to teach her eventually, but even to me DE seem like an intimidatingly complex army- Definitely not for beginners. I've studied the codex quite a bit and I'm still struggling to really get a grip on what a well rounded army would look like. So I turn to you guys to hopefully give me an idea of what units fit where.

So far she has an Archon, Venom, some Scourges and Kabalite Warriors. I think she would mainly be interested, aesthetically, in the Kabal and Wych Cult units. I'm working on the assumption that besides more bodies, she probably wants a big bunch of jetbikes, a couple more Venoms and a Raider or two to zoom Warriors and Wyches up the table and get them into damage range, and that most of the squads will have mixed weaponry.

I can't see a clear distinction with anti-armour and anti-infantry squads, which is probably the main thing stopping me wrapping my head round the army. Is DE supposed to have more flexible mixed weapon squads rather than specialist units, or am I missing some painfully obvious heavy hitters/horde clearers?

Basically I'm planning on trying to at least make sure she doesn't make the traditional Warhammer rookie error of stocking up on too much of one type of unit or another, and keeping things balanced. When it comes to all the other special rules she's convinced she can handle the complexity because she's a DnD player... I think she might be in for a surprise, but we'll see

Thanks in advance!

[Slips]

I havent really had a chance to play my BDSM elves in 8th but, what little help I can give you:

 

Focused Anti-Armor units:

• 3 Dark Lance Ravagers (a case can be made for disintegrators)
• 4x Dark Lance squads of Scourges (haywire could work but theyre a bit more meh imo)
• 4x Blaster Squads of Scourges
• Index "blaster-born" aka Kabalite Trueborn with Blaster Spam.

Realistically, anything that can take Blasters/Dark Lances en-mass can work. Reaver Jetbikes can help a bit too with 1in3 Blasters. All your generic character can also take Blast Pistols which can help in a pinch. Kabalite squads can also get 1 blaster and, at 10 peeps, 1 dark lance to help out if you need them to.

 

For anti-infantry:

• Dual Splinter Cannon Venoms
• 4x Splinter Cannon Scourges (a case could be made for Shredder Scourges)
• Kabalites with Splinter Cannon
• Wyches in general if you can get them into CC make decent tarpits with their 4++ and "no escape"

TBF with all the DE Poison stuff, theyre generally baseline good at taking out infantry.

 

I dont know much about what goes on in Coven units.

 

The Razorwind and Voidraven flyers are also decent, iirc.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Slips

[GrinNfool]

So DE are kinda odd as I am sure you have noticed if you have looked at the codex, its basically 3 factions rolled into 1.  Kabal, Wych Cults, and Coven are all very different and depending on what you want to favor your army can appear very differently. 

 

Wych cult is extremely unforgiving for new players though, if she isn't absolutely hooked on their aesthetic I wouldn't go too much towards them.  The best unit for cult though is the reavers, as w/ red grief you can advance, shoot, and charge  with insane mobility (26" + charge") really good for tying up enemy parking lots, not so great beating actual enemies in melee outside of GEQ, or non vet marines... maybe hard to say with shock assault now.  Wyches themselves main strength is tying stuff up and volume of attacks, reasonable troops if squishy.  If she wants to run some cult would suggest an outrider of 3 squads of 3-4 reavers blaster and agonizer.  Cult is kinda odd as the best cult unit benefits from red grief a ton, but wyches themselves are much better off as strife, or cursed blade, otherwise they don't really reach their potential.

 

Kabal is probably the best in any situation faction, being focused mainly on shooting though Archons can surprise people sometimes if you don't fail your invulns.  For kabal ravagers are what she would want to get, probably the single most important unit in any DE army, though the razorwings/void raven are up there too.  Kabalites you generally run in min squads riding in venoms, blasters are your friend, though if she likes obsidian rose, shredders are actually quite good.  As mentioned previously the flyers, razorwings especially and void raven is reasonable, are good units for DE which with ravagers are the main pillars DE finds its strength.  Disintegrator Cannons are the best general use weapons for the ravs, raiders, or razorwings, but have some lances isn't the worst idea as vs t6 or t7 lances are better.  If she is short on blasters and/or haywire then lances can certainly find their place.

 

Haem Coven is probably the most new player friendly as it isn't fragile (run prophets of flesh others are niche builds which a new player won't use)  Prophets gives you an army wide 4++ and access to Urien if you want him.  Big thing here are Talos, these are the main workhorses of the coven w/ a haem near they are 7wound t7 3+/4++ 6fnp with strong melee and reasonable AV shooting with haywire.  They can go in squads of 3 too so can be scary quite scary.  The wracks are the troops here, and they are ok melee units t4 on their own t5 w/ a haem near by.  Only gun I usually consider for them is the osse or nothing.  Electrowhip can give some nice results sometimes if there are a fair bit of multiwound targets.  Have had an acothyst almost kill a carni on its own w/ it.  Grotesques are actually pretty good... but there is only 1 model for them and its sold as a 1 off in monopose.   As a result most people end up kitbashing something like ratogres or crypt horrors into grotesques.

 

Then there are the neutral guys who can pair with anyone.  Scourges are solid anti anything, don't equip with splinter cannons though... its better to just run 2 bare bones scourge units.  Generally you want to outfit scourges w/ blasters or haywire though, can't go wrong w/ either.  Incubi are kinda meh are at present sadly, they did just preview new models, hopefully they get some rules love but as it stands they are basically just t3 marines w/ powerswords and no gun that you are paying full marine price for.  Mandrakes are the last neutral group and are a solid, unit maybe a little overcosted but not by much fun to field. but not good enough to spam, but a fun unit to throw out there w/ built in deepstrike.  Transport wise venoms are probably the best in most cases, though wych cult specifically can find a use for a raider or 2.

 

Basically you have to field each of those guys aside from the neutrals in their own detachment if you want to get the special rules for each of their groups, so points and space can get tight depending on what she wants to field.  Only final note is generally most DE hqs are running around on foot because of transport capacity rules.  Raiders hold 10 and you only bring them if you are fielding a 10 man squad of something, as fielding a 9 man means giving up a lot of weapon options for whatever was going in them.  Venoms only allowing 5 means min squads preclude them from getting a ride.

Edited September 16, 2019 by GrinNfool

[FelipeFlops]

You are right that there aren't truly defined 'anti-tank' and 'anti-infantry' units but there are some that excel at each imo. Slips and Grin have both put really valid combos down (sorry to you guys if I'm just repeating what you put).

 

Based on what you have already;

 

'5 man Kabalite squad w/ Blaster' in 'Duel Splinter Cannon Venom' is my go to rounded shooting "Troops choice", fast, has good anti-infantry potential and the blaster can threaten vehicles as well, all for 122 points. Infantry are protected by -1 to hit of the Venom, 5++ invuln, and can still shoot as the vehicle is open topped. 

 

Scourges are fantastic at taking out backfield tanks. 4x Haywire blasters deepstriking in can cause a lot of pain. Then if you don't kill your vehicle target, charge it. You can then fall back and repeat your shooting next turn thanks to FLY.

 

On the Wyches;

 

Haven't had much experience with Wych Cults but the Reavers while a little expensive are stupidly quick especially with Cult of the Red Grief, as you are moving 18", advancing 8" and then can still charge (re-rolling) at the end of it. Can give them extra attack with combat drugs but having a unit large enough to take advantage of this really ramps up in points.

 

Even if your SO is not interested, I would heartily recommend Covens. They are just a lot of fun and can bring some seriously hard units to remove to your army that can be removed by a stiff breeze and on top of that Talos are a perfect distraction carnifex (that potentially won't die after a whole round of shooting, T7, 4++, W7, 6+++, with Prophets of Flesh and Haemonculus).