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Codex Supplement: Salamanders and Imperial Fists Leaks


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#51
dogfender

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I’m excited to see the new primaris captain. Hoping for a cool pose. Always looking for new things to convert!
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#52
Dracos

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Sorry guys but ... saying not Primaris.

The guy has a +2 save. Nothing in the Primaris line has a +2 save. The keywords are cut off also. Feels more like he is in Terminator armor or someone is pulling a fast one.
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9e
Raven Guard : 7 - 1
Imperial Knights : 3 - 2


#53
Gederas

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Sorry guys but ... saying not Primaris.

The guy has a +2 save. Nothing in the Primaris line has a +2 save. The keywords are cut off also. Feels more like he is in Terminator armor or someone is pulling a fast one.

Calgar would like to argue that point.



#54
Dracos

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Possible :)

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9e
Raven Guard : 7 - 1
Imperial Knights : 3 - 2


#55
Black Blow Fly

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PriMarneus is rocking the 2+.
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#56
Darkwrath121

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Possible :)

The new Master of the Forge Feirros is another primaris character with a 2+ save. So it's entirely possible :)

Just as with earlier marks of armour, there's always the ability to make artificer-grade suits at a higher standard than the norm.

Edited by Darkwrath121, 16 September 2019 - 02:29 AM.

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#57
Chapter Master Valrak

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If this is true I am quite let down I was hoping to see a Primaris with a bad ass spear, hopefully the new captain will look awesome though :)


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#58
Medicinal Carrots

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Assuming this is true:

I like that it's a new character rather than Primarisized He'stan. His buff trait is much more useful to old marines, so making him Primaris would be very limiting.

 

The defensive psychic powers look nice; -1 to be hit is tasty. In fact, there are a lot of defensive buffs among the various bits and pieces. Not quite to Iron Hands levels of durability, but the options are easier to spread out. Between the listed relics, warlord traits (possibly doubling up), and powers it would be fairly straightforward to make one or two very durable characters to get in close and one durable backline unit. 

 

The hits=mortal wounds power and +1 power relic also look interesting, depending on how they would actually work.

 

My biggest disappointment would be the doctrine. Only affecting flamers and meltas is very specific, even more so than RG. So far all the other chapters' doctrines have been something that can be relevant to a large variety of units, and aside from IH, will at least do something for almost any unit. RG doctrine, restricted as it is, doesn't care what type of unit or weapon you're using, just what you target. IH doctrine depends on wargear, but works for an entire classification of weapon. If Salamanders get a doctrine that only works on a handful of weapons, that's very limiting. Hopefully it applies to assault weapons as a whole, or comes with some other buff. Wasn't there also a French rumor of +1 to hit within 12"? That would be more like it.


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#59
Cryptix

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I'm not so sure on that doctrine, wasn't the leak Flamers, Meltas, and Weapons within 12" get +1 to hit rolls?


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#60
Finkmilkana

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I'm not so sure on that doctrine, wasn't the leak Flamers, Meltas, and Weapons within 12" get +1 to hit rolls?

That wouldn’t do anything for flamers.
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#61
Panzer

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The tactical doctrine rule doesn’t seem right. Flamer and melta weapons aren’t generally available to Primaris. Seems odd to give a chapter bonus that Primaris can’t use.

The Iron Hands one applies to heavy weapons which Primaris only have few of too. Blood Angels don't have a tactical doctrine bonus or something but have a general melee bonus and a bunch of rules that benefit Jump Pack units which Primaris barely any have of either (hell, even a Stratagem that explicitly states it can't be used on a Primaris character).
Fact is GW sees Marines still as a mixed army and not just Primaris so they'll give us rules that benefit classic Marines too.

 

Thinking about Salamanders and the Tac Doctrine, it makes sense as flamers and meltas are assault weapons, hence that's the Doctrine their special rule applies in.
 

Raven Guard get a bonus against characters during the Tactic Doctrine which will come into play most of the time with Snipers which are Heavy weapons, so I don't see the problem.

 

 

or he becomes Vulkan or a vessel of Vulkan thanks to some perpetual nonsense.

I think perpetuals just regenerate, without needing a host or anything like that.

 

Some do. Some get reincarnated. Vulkan though is definitely the type that regenerates. ^^

 

Sorry guys but ... saying not Primaris.

The guy has a +2 save. Nothing in the Primaris line has a +2 save. The keywords are cut off also. Feels more like he is in Terminator armor or someone is pulling a fast one.

 

It's called artificer armour and is not exactly farfetched for a named character from a chapter full of hobbysmiths. ;)

Also Calgar and Feirros have 2+ armour as well.


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#62
Ishagu

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Sorry guys but ... saying not Primaris.

The guy has a +2 save. Nothing in the Primaris line has a +2 save. The keywords are cut off also. Feels more like he is in Terminator armor or someone is pulling a fast one.


Victrix Guard have 2+ saves

-~Ishagu~-


#63
Dracos

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Jesus lol I get it guys. :) I just think the lack of keywords on one and it the other indicated something hinkey. I’m willing to be wrong :) I hope not that sounds like a crappy peek of a Salamander set up. They deserve better.

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9e
Raven Guard : 7 - 1
Imperial Knights : 3 - 2


#64
Ishagu

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I think these rules probably come from a PDF that was emailed to play testers, it's why it's not 100% as nice as the printed rules in an actual book. Also done bits might not be finalised
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-~Ishagu~-


#65
Disruptor_fe404

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Hmm. Changes/rules aside, I REALLY hope that Salamanders don't get a damn WD codex. I mean, it seems that so far every first founding chapter gets a codex, so I would honestly a bit miffed if we don't get that treatment and are left with a white dwarf supplement. Also, I just can't really shake the feeling of this being a well-made fake.

 

Wait, why do you think that Salamanders would get a White Dwarf 'codex' at this point? Literally nothing is pointing in that direction.


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#66
MARK0SIAN

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The tactical doctrine rule doesn’t seem right. Flamer and melta weapons aren’t generally available to Primaris. Seems odd to give a chapter bonus that Primaris can’t use.

The Iron Hands one applies to heavy weapons which Primaris only have few of too. Blood Angels don't have a tactical doctrine bonus or something but have a general melee bonus and a bunch of rules that benefit Jump Pack units which Primaris barely any have of either (hell, even a Stratagem that explicitly states it can't be used on a Primaris character).
Fact is GW sees Marines still as a mixed army and not just Primaris so they'll give us rules that benefit classic Marines too.

It’s not so much the fact that the rule benefits classic marines, it’s that it benefits such a specific and limited selection of wargear that only classic marines can freely equip. The other bonuses from supplements may not be entirely universal but neither are they as niche as this one.

However, I’ve come around to believing it may well be true. It’s just that if it is, it’s a very weak bonus compared to what the other chapters got and is quite disappointing. Here’s hoping there’s more to it :)

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#67
Ishagu

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Yeah the bonus doesn't seem as well rounded but it does come alongside one of the strongest chapter tactics, and it's also thematic.

From the limited leak we've seen the Salamanders do have nice defensive psychic powers and good stratagems, and there's nice combos on top.

I'm actually someone who runs Aggressors with flamers in a Repulsor, so I do really like the rules - especially the new characters.

If those leaks are true you can also make a Gravis Chapter Master that is Str6 and T7, which makes him into a very powerful character and beatstick with a Str6 Master Carter Sword and a Str12 Power Fist...

Edit:

Just to add, the language on those datasheets looks pretty solid, more so than past fakes we've seen.

Edited by Ishagu, 16 September 2019 - 09:10 AM.

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#68
Captain Smashy Pants

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The tactical doctrine rule doesn’t seem right. Flamer and melta weapons aren’t generally available to Primaris. Seems odd to give a chapter bonus that Primaris can’t use.

The Iron Hands one applies to heavy weapons which Primaris only have few of too. Blood Angels don't have a tactical doctrine bonus or something but have a general melee bonus and a bunch of rules that benefit Jump Pack units which Primaris barely any have of either (hell, even a Stratagem that explicitly states it can't be used on a Primaris character).
Fact is GW sees Marines still as a mixed army and not just Primaris so they'll give us rules that benefit classic Marines too.
It’s not so much the fact that the rule benefits classic marines, it’s that it benefits such a specific and limited selection of wargear that only classic marines can freely equip. The other bonuses from supplements may not be entirely universal but neither are they as niche as this one.

However, I’ve come around to believing it may well be true. It’s just that if it is, it’s a very weak bonus compared to what the other chapters got and is quite disappointing. Here’s hoping there’s more to it :)

Yeah I'll admit it COULD be considered weak unless you play particular units, however if you actually like fielding those particular units, its actually quite STRONG. Things like LRR and Mm devastators are going to be bonkers, especially with He'Stan buffing them, and the other character seems like a beat stick.
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I do find it hilarious that some people were saying the size of newer marine stuff looks great next to regular humans like Cadians, and then GW upsized the humans so they are the same height as marines again :lol: :lol: :lol:


#69
Panzer

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If those leaks are true you can also make a Gravis Chapter Master that is Str6 and T7, which makes him into a very powerful character and beatstick with a Str6 Master Carter Sword and a Str12 Power Fist...

 

Thought about that too. Who needs Dreadnoughts anyway. :D


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#70
CCE1981

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Thinking of giving a Str 6 Tough 6, Jump Pack and Storm Shield Captain the Teeth of Terra.
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#71
Lemondish

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If those leaks are true you can also make a Gravis Chapter Master that is Str6 and T7, which makes him into a very powerful character and beatstick with a Str6 Master Carter Sword and a Str12 Power Fist...


Those guys are already pretty strong - making them ridiculously tough scares me lol
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#72
Halandaar

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Vulkan stays as an oldmarine in total defiance of the trend of the previous supplements?

 

New character has a statline that doesn't correspond to any other Primaris unit released so far?

 

To say I'm dubious would be an understatement.


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#73
Ishagu

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Vulkan stays as an oldmarine in total defiance of the trend of the previous supplements?

New character has a statline that doesn't correspond to any other Primaris unit released so far?

To say I'm dubious would be an understatement.


How so? He has the exact statline of a Primaris Captain but with a 2+ save.

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#74
Lemondish

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Vulkan stays as an oldmarine in total defiance of the trend of the previous supplements?

New character has a statline that doesn't correspond to any other Primaris unit released so far?

To say I'm dubious would be an understatement.


The statline corresponds perfectly to a Primaris Captain with Artificer armour.

#75
Halandaar

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How so? He has the exact statline of a Primaris Captain but with a 2+ save.

 

The statline corresponds perfectly to a Primaris Captain with Artificer armour.

 

So a hypothetical unit with no previous example in the Primaris range? Pretty sure that's what I said.

 

Anyway, you've both tactically dodged the point about Vulkan He'Stan not being upgraded which would be against the pattern of previous releases for the Ultramarines, White Scars and Raven Guard. (Iron Hands don't really count here because they didn't have a previous character to "upgrade").

 

Part of what makes me dubious about a new named Captain is that He'Stan already fills that role for Salamanders. Sure, he goes by "Forgefather" but statwise (and Rites of Battle-wise), he's a Captain. So far we've no prior example of two named characters from the same chapter offering the same rank, stats and buffs. If the new guy was being presented as a Chapter-Master level character, I'd believe it more easily. As it is we've been presented with two variations of the same thing where one makes stuff shoot better and one makes stuff hit better. Is that enough to justify a whole new guy, instead of just doing Primaris He'Stan (who would have the same exact statline as this "leaked" Agatone one)?

 

Furthermore, if we're introducing new characters alongside the old ones, why didn't White Scars get a new one instead of Primaris Kor'Sarro? Where's our new Ultramarines named character? Etc.

 

It basically just breaks the established pattern and overlaps too heavily with the Chapter's existing character to be easily believable, for me. Not saying it won't happen, i'm saying "i'll believe it when I see it". 


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