Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Codex Supplement: Salamanders and Imperial Fists Leaks


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
1403 replies to this topic

#76
fire golem

fire golem

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 4,937 posts
  • Location:Gosport, UK
  • Faction: XVth Legion, Loyal Siege force
It’s really not unlike GW to act as though they’re following a pattern and then suddenly going against it with seemingly little rhyme or reason.
  • Dosjetka, Marshal Vespasian, SickSix and 2 others like this

#77
Halandaar

Halandaar

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 4,025 posts
  • Location:Cambridge, UK
  • Faction: Pretty much all of them!

It’s really not unlike GW to act as though they’re following a pattern and then suddenly going against it with seemingly little rhyme or reason.

 

Definitely can't argue with that.


  • Dosjetka likes this

gallery_84244_11417_1545.gifgallery_84244_11417_3775.gifgallery_84244_11417_2850.gifgallery_84244_11417_880.gifgallery_84244_11417_1641.gifgallery_84244_11417_2552.gifgallery_84244_11417_215.png gallery_84244_11417_18892.jpggallery_84244_11417_30096.jpggallery_84244_11417_17741.pnggallery_84244_11417_22884.pnggallery_84244_16660_5008.jpggallery_84244_11417_13552.png


#78
appiah5

appiah5

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 3,160 posts

So maybe Vulkan is not getting a new model (hence oldmarine stats) and the new model is the Primaris Captain?


"Death before dishonor, nothing before coffee!"

gallery_60983_8363_3386.jpg

My Blood Angels Oldmarines

My Imperial Fists Primaris


#79
Aztek

Aztek

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 590 posts
  • Faction: Night Lords

So maybe Vulkan is not getting a new model (hence oldmarine stats) and the new model is the Primaris Captain?

That would be the guess, yeah. Thunderhammer was rumoured to be on the Salamander sprue and now this new captain appears to have a master crafted Thunderhammer. Makes sense to me.


Edited by Aztek, 16 September 2019 - 10:04 AM.


#80
Reinhard

Reinhard

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 4,370 posts

A primaris captain with a 2+ save is way less out of left field than Feirros, who's kind of a techmarine/mof combined with a gravis captain, but with stats that don't perfectly match either.



#81
Panzer

Panzer

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 21,076 posts
  • Location:Germany
  • Faction: Order of Baal, Dal'yth Sept

 

How so? He has the exact statline of a Primaris Captain but with a 2+ save.

 

The statline corresponds perfectly to a Primaris Captain with Artificer armour.

 

So a hypothetical unit with no previous example in the Primaris range? Pretty sure that's what I said.

 

Anyway, you've both tactically dodged the point about Vulkan He'Stan not being upgraded which would be against the pattern of previous releases for the Ultramarines, White Scars and Raven Guard. (Iron Hands don't really count here because they didn't have a previous character to "upgrade").

 

Part of what makes me dubious about a new named Captain is that He'Stan already fills that role for Salamanders. Sure, he goes by "Forgefather" but statwise (and Rites of Battle-wise), he's a Captain. So far we've no prior example of two named characters from the same chapter offering the same rank, stats and buffs. If the new guy was being presented as a Chapter-Master level character, I'd believe it more easily. As it is we've been presented with two variations of the same thing where one makes stuff shoot better and one makes stuff hit better. Is that enough to justify a whole new guy, instead of just doing Primaris He'Stan (who would have the same exact statline as this "leaked" Agatone one)?

 

Furthermore, if we're introducing new characters alongside the old ones, why didn't White Scars get a new one instead of Primaris Kor'Sarro? Where's our new Ultramarines named character? Etc.

 

It basically just breaks the established pattern and overlaps too heavily with the Chapter's existing character to be easily believable, for me. Not saying it won't happen, i'm saying "i'll believe it when I see it". 

 

 

You mean unlike Feirros, Calgar and the Victrix Guard who all got a 2+ armour save? Those examples in the Primaris range?

 

The pattern doesn't matter much. GW is free to shake things up whenever they want to and if they have a reason to not upgrade He'stan instead, they don't have to tell us.


  • Oxydo likes this

gallery_62972_10568_7658.jpgbFk9acX.pnggallery_62972_14467_40478.pnggallery_62972_14467_3819.jpggallery_62972_10568_4118.jpg


#82
Panzer

Panzer

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 21,076 posts
  • Location:Germany
  • Faction: Order of Baal, Dal'yth Sept

So maybe Vulkan is not getting a new model (hence oldmarine stats) and the new model is the Primaris Captain?

 

You can see the keywords for Vulkan He'stan. It's 'confirmed' that he's not getting the Primaris upgrade as far as this leak is concerned.


gallery_62972_10568_7658.jpgbFk9acX.pnggallery_62972_14467_40478.pnggallery_62972_14467_3819.jpggallery_62972_10568_4118.jpg


#83
Hazon Dak'ir

Hazon Dak'ir

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 108 posts
  • Location:Orange County, CA
  • Faction: Salamanders

I'm really not sure how i feel about this potential leak. I'd really have liked a new Vulkan He'Stan model rather than keeping him as a midgety oldmarine for now (he look silly compared to all the new Primaris stuff. I'd rather see Chapter Master Tu'Shan than another Captain become Primaris, as Vulkan kind of has very similar stats to a Captain as-is. 

 

Also, disappointed that they decided to do an entirely new Captain character rather than going for He'katan from the Badab War FW books, as he would have been a great candidate to just make Primaris instead IMO.


"A Fire Will Rise"

#84
Halandaar

Halandaar

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 4,025 posts
  • Location:Cambridge, UK
  • Faction: Pretty much all of them!

You mean unlike Feirros, Calgar and the Victrix Guard who all got a 2+ armour save? Those examples in the Primaris range?

 

My reason for highlighting the 2+ save in Ishagu's comment wasn't to claim that they didn't exist, more to point out that it can't be "the exact statline as a Primaris Captain" if it has a different save value than a Primaris Captain.

 

Anyway, this really is secondary, and my main point remains that this proposed ruleset for Agatone overlaps so much with He'Stan to the point of feeling partially redundant. It's effectively two minor variations on a Captain, where every other chapter with multiple characters has them feel distinct from each other either in terms of role or rank.

 

Also this "leak" gets a minus-1 to it's feasability on account of it being an actually readable image that looks like it was screen-grabbed directly from the actual document. If it was a "proper" leak it would have taken the form of a list of text or a potato-quality image from the book.


  • Hazon Dak'ir likes this

gallery_84244_11417_1545.gifgallery_84244_11417_3775.gifgallery_84244_11417_2850.gifgallery_84244_11417_880.gifgallery_84244_11417_1641.gifgallery_84244_11417_2552.gifgallery_84244_11417_215.png gallery_84244_11417_18892.jpggallery_84244_11417_30096.jpggallery_84244_11417_17741.pnggallery_84244_11417_22884.pnggallery_84244_16660_5008.jpggallery_84244_11417_13552.png


#85
Trevak Dal

Trevak Dal

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 4,337 posts
  • Location:Tennessee
  • Faction: Black Legion (Night Blades)
I thought Vulkan Hestan was a chapter master? His keywords say captain...(I may be mistaken about him being chapter master)

"Our Turn" - Centurion Khârn.

 


#86
Panzer

Panzer

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 21,076 posts
  • Location:Germany
  • Faction: Order of Baal, Dal'yth Sept

 

Also this "leak" gets a minus-1 to it's feasability on account of it being an actually readable image that looks like it was screen-grabbed directly from the actual document. If it was a "proper" leak it would have taken the form of a list of text or a potato-quality image from the book.

 

 

Now that's a really weak argument. We've had actual leaks that were screenshots before already.


  • Juggernut likes this

gallery_62972_10568_7658.jpgbFk9acX.pnggallery_62972_14467_40478.pnggallery_62972_14467_3819.jpggallery_62972_10568_4118.jpg


#87
Hazon Dak'ir

Hazon Dak'ir

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 108 posts
  • Location:Orange County, CA
  • Faction: Salamanders

I thought Vulkan Hestan was a chapter master? His keywords say captain...(I may be mistaken about him being chapter master)

Vulkan He'Stan is kind of a seperate entity from the main Chapter command structure. he has authority and almost complete autonomy in his quest for the sacred relics. The Chapter Master is Tu'Shan. he's been mentioned a number of times in old codices and some novels, but he's never had any rules sadly.....


  • Trevak Dal and Nocturne Noble like this
"A Fire Will Rise"

#88
Panzer

Panzer

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 21,076 posts
  • Location:Germany
  • Faction: Order of Baal, Dal'yth Sept

I thought Vulkan Hestan was a chapter master? His keywords say captain...(I may be mistaken about him being chapter master)

 

He's a Captain. Formerly the Captain of the 4th Company. What makes him special is that he's also the current Forgefather who's tasked with finding Vulkans relics (and is currently wearing 3 of them) and is now independent of the company structure.


Edited by sfPanzer, 16 September 2019 - 11:00 AM.

  • Trevak Dal likes this

gallery_62972_10568_7658.jpgbFk9acX.pnggallery_62972_14467_40478.pnggallery_62972_14467_3819.jpggallery_62972_10568_4118.jpg


#89
Charlo

Charlo

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 21,111 posts
God people really will die on any hill won't they?

Excited for the new stuff :)
  • phoenix01, Juggernut and Zebulon like this

#90
Biscuittzz

Biscuittzz

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 939 posts
  • Faction: Raven Guard/Grey Knights

 

 

Also this "leak" gets a minus-1 to it's feasability on account of it being an actually readable image that looks like it was screen-grabbed directly from the actual document. If it was a "proper" leak it would have taken the form of a list of text or a potato-quality image from the book.

 

 

Now that's a really weak argument. We've had actual leaks that were screenshots before already.

 

 

I think that was sarcasm.


  • mel_danes and Halandaar like this

#91
Reinhard

Reinhard

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 4,370 posts

Honestly my main 'problem' with the leak, specifically related to the new character, is that the image detailing his stats is very carefully cropped compared to He'stan image just below it. I'm not good at spotting doctored images unless they're blatantly obvious but it does make me wonder. Why is the top part with the name removed (because it'd show the PL? guess it lines up with the stricken points values), the keywords have already been mentioned. Then there's a bit where the black line that sepperates the "weapons" section and the "abilities" section becomes oddly thick to the right?

 

Also, what's with the click bait watermark?

 

Anyhow, might be nothing.

 

EDIT: guessing the watermark was added by the guy who posted it, who if the comment section is to believed, also scrubbed the points values. He also alleges he has screen shots of 6 more pages that he says "look legit as hell"


Edited by Reinhard, 16 September 2019 - 11:06 AM.


#92
Hazon Dak'ir

Hazon Dak'ir

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 108 posts
  • Location:Orange County, CA
  • Faction: Salamanders

 

I thought Vulkan Hestan was a chapter master? His keywords say captain...(I may be mistaken about him being chapter master)

 

He's a Captain. Formerly the Captain of the 4th Company. What makes him special is that he's also the current Forgefather who's tasked with finding Vulkans relics (and is currently wearing 3 of them) and is now independent of the company structure.

 

Since when? Where does it say anywhere that he leads any particular company at all. He can requisition any available chapter resources he needs to get something done, so can potentially be leading any of them, but i've never seen it anywhere that it specifically states he runs "x" Company of the Chapter....

 

Edit: k since the original post was edited, i'll add my own. That's exactly what i meant. Vulkan He'Stan - as he currently is in his position as Forgefather of the Salamanders -  is NOT a Captain. Whether he used to be prior to that is irrelevant as it's never had any bearing on how he is and his rules in Codex releases. His role and purpose in the Chapter is completely separate from those of the Line Companies. Stats are the only real similarity.


Edited by Hazon Dak'ir, 16 September 2019 - 11:06 AM.

"A Fire Will Rise"

#93
Ishagu

Ishagu

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 17,615 posts
  • Location:Britannia, Holy Terra
  • Faction: Ultramarines


You mean unlike Feirros, Calgar and the Victrix Guard who all got a 2+ armour save? Those examples in the Primaris range?

My reason for highlighting the 2+ save in Ishagu's comment wasn't to claim that they didn't exist, more to point out that it can't be "the exact statline as a Primaris Captain" if it has a different save value than a Primaris Captain.


Yes, technically. But the stat boost over Vulkan is the same as what a Primaris upgrade would grant a character when looking at existing models.

Of course he has Artifacer Armour, which already exists on models such as the Victrix Guard.

I don't think the new guy is redundant, he boosts close combat.

Edited by Ishagu, 16 September 2019 - 11:10 AM.

-~Ishagu~-


#94
Panzer

Panzer

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 21,076 posts
  • Location:Germany
  • Faction: Order of Baal, Dal'yth Sept

 

 

I thought Vulkan Hestan was a chapter master? His keywords say captain...(I may be mistaken about him being chapter master)

 

He's a Captain. Formerly the Captain of the 4th Company. What makes him special is that he's also the current Forgefather who's tasked with finding Vulkans relics (and is currently wearing 3 of them) and is now independent of the company structure.

 

Since when? Where does it say anywhere that he leads any particular company at all. He can requisition any available chapter resources he needs to get something done, so can potentially be leading any of them, but i've never seen it anywhere that it specifically states he runs "x" Company of the Chapter....

 

Edit: k since the original post was edited, i'll add my own. That's exactly what i meant. Vulkan He'Stan - as he currently is in his position as Forgefather of the Salamanders -  is NOT a Captain. Whether he used to be prior to that is irrelevant as it's never had any bearing on how he is and his rules in Codex releases. His role and purpose in the Chapter is completely separate from those of the Line Companies. Stats are the only real similarity.

 

 

Well I edited my post before you quoted it or else there would've been the edited version quoted. ^^


gallery_62972_10568_7658.jpgbFk9acX.pnggallery_62972_14467_40478.pnggallery_62972_14467_3819.jpggallery_62972_10568_4118.jpg


#95
Hazon Dak'ir

Hazon Dak'ir

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 108 posts
  • Location:Orange County, CA
  • Faction: Salamanders

 

 

 

I thought Vulkan Hestan was a chapter master? His keywords say captain...(I may be mistaken about him being chapter master)

 

He's a Captain. Formerly the Captain of the 4th Company. What makes him special is that he's also the current Forgefather who's tasked with finding Vulkans relics (and is currently wearing 3 of them) and is now independent of the company structure.

 

Since when? Where does it say anywhere that he leads any particular company at all. He can requisition any available chapter resources he needs to get something done, so can potentially be leading any of them, but i've never seen it anywhere that it specifically states he runs "x" Company of the Chapter....

 

Edit: k since the original post was edited, i'll add my own. That's exactly what i meant. Vulkan He'Stan - as he currently is in his position as Forgefather of the Salamanders -  is NOT a Captain. Whether he used to be prior to that is irrelevant as it's never had any bearing on how he is and his rules in Codex releases. His role and purpose in the Chapter is completely separate from those of the Line Companies. Stats are the only real similarity.

 

 

Well I edited my post before you quoted it or else there would've been the edited version quoted. ^^

 

It had to have happened literally right as i clicked the button to reply, and if it did, it didn't show in the text window as such for me when i was typing my response. Really doesn't matter either way, the point still stands. He isn't a Captain in anything other than his stat-line, which is a game + balance decision over any lore points whatsoever.


"A Fire Will Rise"

#96
Biscuittzz

Biscuittzz

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 939 posts
  • Faction: Raven Guard/Grey Knights

Tremendous amount of salt on this rumour. I don't see why if they have the full leak that the new characters keywords are hidden yet they show all of Vulkans.


  • Triszin, Hazon Dak'ir and Halandaar like this

#97
Triszin

Triszin

    ++ INTERFECTOR ROBUSTUS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 6,969 posts
  • Location:Cleveland, Ohio

Tremendous amount of salt on this rumour. I don't see why if they have the full leak that the new characters keywords are hidden yet they show all of Vulkans.

Yep.

I still vote: this is abfan who's taken b rumors and threw pizzaz on them and pretended to know more.
  • Hazon Dak'ir and Biscuittzz like this
banana

#98
Lemondish

Lemondish

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 3,544 posts
We'll know soon enough.

I think they're legit as far as everything is concerned.

#99
Panzer

Panzer

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 21,076 posts
  • Location:Germany
  • Faction: Order of Baal, Dal'yth Sept

 

 

 

 

I thought Vulkan Hestan was a chapter master? His keywords say captain...(I may be mistaken about him being chapter master)

 

He's a Captain. Formerly the Captain of the 4th Company. What makes him special is that he's also the current Forgefather who's tasked with finding Vulkans relics (and is currently wearing 3 of them) and is now independent of the company structure.

 

Since when? Where does it say anywhere that he leads any particular company at all. He can requisition any available chapter resources he needs to get something done, so can potentially be leading any of them, but i've never seen it anywhere that it specifically states he runs "x" Company of the Chapter....

 

Edit: k since the original post was edited, i'll add my own. That's exactly what i meant. Vulkan He'Stan - as he currently is in his position as Forgefather of the Salamanders -  is NOT a Captain. Whether he used to be prior to that is irrelevant as it's never had any bearing on how he is and his rules in Codex releases. His role and purpose in the Chapter is completely separate from those of the Line Companies. Stats are the only real similarity.

 

 

Well I edited my post before you quoted it or else there would've been the edited version quoted. ^^

 

It had to have happened literally right as i clicked the button to reply, and if it did, it didn't show in the text window as such for me when i was typing my response. Really doesn't matter either way, the point still stands. He isn't a Captain in anything other than his stat-line, which is a game + balance decision over any lore points whatsoever.

 

 

According to the timestamps my edit happened two minutes before you made your post and even if you clicked at it the same time it should've shown in the textbox. Anyway as you said it's not like it matters.
However I did say he was formerly leading a company and is now independent of the company structure. He doesn't lose the rank he had before. The Forgefather is just an extension and variation of it as he can lead any company he wishes to in place of a regular Captain.


gallery_62972_10568_7658.jpgbFk9acX.pnggallery_62972_14467_40478.pnggallery_62972_14467_3819.jpggallery_62972_10568_4118.jpg


#100
Stargate_wars

Stargate_wars

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 93 posts
  • Faction: Dragon Lords

Hmmm, i see some issues with the datasheets the right upper corner are using helmets with skulls instead of helmets with wreath halo and white for the helm colour for the right side that all currently released new codex supplements have for most units which you can see in the Raven Guard reviews as well.

The other issue is the lines of between weapons, abilities, faction keyword and keywords are not the same.


  • Hazon Dak'ir likes this




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users