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Space Wolves Combat Doctrines: What Say You, Vlka?


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86 replies to this topic

#51
Dark Shepherd

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Am hoping we dont get litanies tbh now
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#52
One Two Wolf

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Sagas need to get pumped. It's our thing and it could be absolutely amazing. I really hope it happens and we avoid the doctrines. Start with traits for all characters and let them earn bubbles. Up the wolves.

Considering Broken Hands and some vanilla hook ups it's not op. It's The Way. Litanies be damned (ironic lol) and follow the leaders.

May forever the halls of the fang be filled with the deeds of the emperors wrath, may those who besmirch His name in thought or deed be fed the blade of execution by those true sons of Russ. May with blood and toil and wrath and blood-soaked fury the enemies of light and truth be struck down by the righteous, pitiless, merciless all-consuming fury of tooth and claw, beset on all sides by fur and feilty and Ragnars big F sword.

Up the wolves.
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#53
Dark Shepherd

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If sagas activated when the warlord killed an enemy model or unit thatd be sweet, activation of the best ones (Wolfkin, Majesty) is almost impossible to get off in a meaningful way/timely manner

Sure our warlord traits are probably changing anyway

Sagas for all characters would be brilliant and fluffy, something like if a character kills or charges & kills units within 6' get +1 strength. Already get plus one attack

#54
NatBrannigan

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Hope we get something similar to the Fists where you can give Pack Leaders a mini relic. It's such a small thing, probably not worth it really, but I think it's great fun!

 

Love the all HQ's get an easier saga to earn a bubble thing, that's very wolfy indeed.

 

That and Primaris Wolf Guard and I'll be a happy happy happy man.

 

And again, give Wulfen the damn Primaris Keyword already! Phobos too if I had my way but that's too much :P


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#55
UniWolf

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What I would love is to see TWC be viable again! a points drop would be the obvious thing, or a 12inch movement/Strength 5/ 4 wounds would be a nice start. 


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Sometimes by losing a battle you find a way to win the war

 

 


#56
Dark Shepherd

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What I would love is to see TWC be viable again! a points drop would be the obvious thing, or a 12inch movement/Strength 5/ 4 wounds would be a nice start.


Have a suspicion they wont drop as melee unit have been boosted by shock assault and GW think T5 models with storm shields are scary. They should get reroll failed charges like most beasts

Simplest thing they could do to earn much love is let us take Reivers as troops. Unlikeliest thing would be Primaris in our flyers
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#57
lonewolf81

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Sagas  are good for narrative but a bad mechanic because they force you to always castle around characters (even more than vanilla marines). We need an armywide rule like doctrines unique to wolves  to apply to all units 


Edited by lonewolf81, 23 October 2019 - 05:57 PM.


#58
Karack Blackstone

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Sagas that work like actual Sagas wouldn't hurt.

 

What I mean is, a Saga is a story; it is a previous thing. Maybe a trigger to get an Army Wide buff aura or USR more specifically, would work wonders for the army.

 

The single biggest issue is that the Wolves need some sort of Reiver Troops. I would go with Wraiths, a light skirmisher style Reiver.

- Troops Choice

- 16 PPM, WPL + 4 Wraiths, for starters. May add up to 5 additional Wraiths for 16 points per model.

- Primaris Statline

- Frags and Kraks

- Bolt Carbines base

- Reiver type armor

- Bolt Pistol, Combat Knife

- Can upgrade the BC's to Bolt Rifles, or Stalker Bolt Rifles, or Assault Bolt Rifles, for +1 ppm

 

The unit:

- May take a Grav Chute for +x (1? 2?) Pts each model.

- May take a Grapnel Launcher for +1 Pt. per model?

- May take a Camo Cloak for +1 Pt. per model?

- May take an Auspex Scanner for +1 Pt. per model?

- May take a Sniper Rifle for +1 or +2 Pt.s per model?

- May replace BP's with HBP's, +1 ppm

- May replace CK with Cswd, +1 ppm

- Instead of a Grav Chute, may take an Aggressor Jump Pack, +2 or +4 ppm

 

Things like that.

 

As stated, a light skirmisher Primaris unit.

 

Edit:

 

Added the rest of the basic kit.

 

Edit 2:

 

Added the Bolt Rifle range and listed points cost per model.

 

Also: Citadel Miniatures, A.K.A. Games Workshop, I hereby give permission to use this idea should it prove viable as an option. Base cost is 16 points per model, unless the save changes to 4+ for Reiver type armor, at which point it should be 15 ppm.


Edited by Karack Blackstone, 24 October 2019 - 05:22 PM.


#59
Wishful Thinker

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Movement!
We are a melee army that often fails to make melee, we need to move!
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#60
Karack Blackstone

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Cheaper transports that can move units around more efficiently would help that issue immensely.



#61
Karack Blackstone

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Moved unit ideas to a new thread.

 

What sort of doctrinal method makes sense then for the Wolves?

 

Something to replace it fully but be a flat Apoc of Old style might work.

 

On the Hunt

+1 Move, all times moving

-1 AP to all weapons on the charge

+1 to all Morale tests by foes, -1 to all Morale tests for SW's.

 

This seem alright?



#62
Wishful Thinker

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Combine that with what seems to be happening with non-codex marines and Master of Vanguard warlord trait and I'd be pretty satisfied.

#63
Jorin Helm-splitter

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I wouldn't mind if we just had a stactic set of buffs that didn't change.

For example Karack's movement suggestion, and increase the AP of all weapons by -1 if the target is within 12". It would be harder to get units into position to maximize it but the trade off would be our close combat and mid field units would shine again.
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#64
Dark Shepherd

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I just hope we dont get (our best) assault buff that we have to wait til turn 3 to use/get any real joy from doctrines

#65
Rune Priest Jbickb

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Not like its hurting white scars though
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#66
Jorin Helm-splitter

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I've been using the White Scar rules for my primaris when my friends want to play more competitive games, trust me they benefit alot from the first two doctrines. A buff to all heavies is a big deal on the first turn, and the tactical doctrine effects pratically every other marine unit. Its why I suggested weapons within 12" get improved AP because our buff would need to be really good to make up for the time it takes to engage. 


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#67
bluescope

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Movement!
We are a melee army that often fails to make melee, we need to move!


SW units are slow, fragile and expensive......

Edited by bluescope, 05 November 2019 - 08:54 AM.


#68
Jarl of Wulfen

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The new night lord strat that prevents fall back could easily be copied to wolves
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#69
The Saint Ragnar

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What if we got something like the power from pain table called Seeking a Saga. As the game goes on our units are seeking more and more to make a Saga for themselves. Characters keep their Saga mechanics but now our everything else including them gets buffed as we go. It could have only have maybe 3 stages like:
1. +1 to movement
2. +1 to advance and charge
3. +1 attack

Or have a full 6 more akin to the dark Eldar one. Although I feel like iron hands fans would be pissed if we got a 6+++ turn one and more later

Edited by The Saint Ragnar, 15 November 2019 - 11:45 AM.

For Russ and the AllFather!

Armies Played:

Space Wolves - ~3,000 Points

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#70
UniWolf

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What if we got something like the power from pain table called Seeking a Saga. As the game goes on our units are seeking more and more to make a Saga for themselves. Characters keep their Saga mechanics but now our everything else including them gets buffed as we go. It could have only have maybe 3 stages like:
1. +1 to movement
2. +1 to advance and charge
3. +1 attack

Or have a full 6 more akin to the dark Eldar one. Although I feel like iron hands fans would be pissed if we got a 6+++ turn one and more later

I would like something like a full set of power from pain. Personally I would like:

1. -1 to hit by enemy units if more than 12" away

2. +1 to movement and advance

3. re-roll failed charges 

4. +1 wound when charges, was charged or heroic intervention 

5. 6+++

6. immune to morale

 

I was trying to think of abilities that are a bit fluffy. In first turn, a hunter is stalking his prey so doesn't want to be seen (hence harder to hit). Second, closes in on prey (increased movement). Third, pounces on prey (better chance of making charge). Forth, while stalking the prey the weak points were identified so it is easier to bring down (+1 wound). Fifth, when prey fights back there is the potential to shrug off its attacks. Sixth, accomplishment of a kill means spirits will be high 


Sometimes by losing a battle you find a way to win the war

 

 


#71
Triszin

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Expanding on some random thoughts of mine.

 

No doctrines.

 

Expand Sagas.

 

Each unit now has a saga. (5 base sagas*ish)

 

close support:

Units: Blood claws, Swift claws, Inceptors, sky claws

- Challenge: Succesfully complete a charge

- Squad Bonus: on a charge roll of unmodified 6, add 1 atk to the unit

 

BATTLELINE:  ( HUNTER )

Units: grey Hunters, Intercessors

- Challenge: secure an objective

- Squad Bonus: Move and fire rapid fire bolt weapons as though they havent moved. assault bolt weapons gain +1 to hit

 

VETERAN:

Units: wolf guard, thunder wolves, wolf guard terminators, ancients, aggressors

- Challenge: Successfully pass a moral check.

- squad bonus: This squad can decide to automatically pass or fail moral checks.

 

FIRE SUPPORT:

units: Long fangs, Hellblasters, suppressors

- Challenge: Kill a monster or vehicle

- Squad Bonus: reroll all failed to wound rolls on monsters or vehicles

 

SCOUT:

units: wolf scouts, reivers, incurours, infiltrators, eliminators

- Challenge: Kill a character, monster

- Squad Bonus: generate 1 CP

 

or something like this.

 

thoughts on this?


Edited by Triszin, 15 November 2019 - 03:06 PM.

banana

#72
Harald Fairmane

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if we get the upgradeable apothecary and master of the forge, what about Logan on stomrider supported by a master iron priest and master wolf priest, expensive but they could give him massive heals until he smashes into the enemy lines :D



#73
lonewolf81

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Expanding on some random thoughts of mine.

 

No doctrines.

 

Expand Sagas.

 

Each unit now has a saga. (5 base sagas*ish)

 

close support:

Units: Blood claws, Swift claws, Inceptors, sky claws

- Challenge: Succesfully complete a charge

- Squad Bonus: on a charge roll of unmodified 6, add 1 atk to the unit

 

BATTLELINE:  ( HUNTER )

Units: grey Hunters, Intercessors

- Challenge: secure an objective

- Squad Bonus: Move and fire rapid fire bolt weapons as though they havent moved. assault bolt weapons gain +1 to hit

 

VETERAN:

Units: wolf guard, thunder wolves, wolf guard terminators, ancients, aggressors

- Challenge: Successfully pass a moral check.

- squad bonus: This squad can decide to automatically pass or fail moral checks.

 

FIRE SUPPORT:

units: Long fangs, Hellblasters, suppressors

- Challenge: Kill a monster or vehicle

- Squad Bonus: reroll all failed to wound rolls on monsters or vehicles

 

SCOUT:

units: wolf scouts, reivers, incurours, infiltrators, eliminators

- Challenge: Kill a character, monster

- Squad Bonus: generate 1 CP

 

or something like this.

 

thoughts on this?

 

With the above sagas mechanic you have to complete a situational task to get a mediocre /weak buff, while other chapters get strong buffs activated all the time for all units for free...Sagas mechanic was bad written in the codex....in fact the old warlord traits (before the FAQ) were stronger...wolves are  and were in the bottom of the barrel for all 8th edition...they need to give us something solid this time with psychic awakening... 

 

PS: take a look at the litanies (generic and chapter specific) for vanilla marines and the strats/ relics /demon weapons for chaos... the new PA book must bring wolves in line with those things and provide synergy with primaris marines ..we got zero synergy now....the treatment of our fellow blood angels who are rumored to be next will shed some light on things (they are close combat oriented like us and have zero synergy with primaris too)...


Edited by lonewolf81, 16 November 2019 - 06:14 PM.

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#74
Dark Shepherd

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Thought of this in BA rumours with a little inspiration from Lemondish, to be even more codex non compliant we get a bonus for the earlier we get into CC eg turn 3 we get extra minus one to armour saves in CC turn 2 we get extra minus two etc

#75
TiguriusX

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I've been using the White Scar rules for my primaris when my friends want to play more competitive games, trust me they benefit alot from the first two doctrines. A buff to all heavies is a big deal on the first turn, and the tactical doctrine effects pratically every other marine unit. Its why I suggested weapons within 12" get improved AP because our buff would need to be really good to make up for the time it takes to engage.


i have been playing wolf scars lately as well (successor with access to WS stratagems)

outflanking anything is simply amazing...i usually assign a leviathan the encirclement stratagem

devastator doctrine makes his storm cannons S7 AP3 D2

we need a new codex ASAP
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