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Dreadnought Character (stratagem) interactions

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#1
Rodrick

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what do you guys think?

 

 

we can make one or more dreads a character (stratagem) and bc they are a character we can give them a warlord trait (stratagem) like FNP 5+

 

not sure if a relic is allowed ive read somewhere that vehicles cant have relics.

 

 

for me the obvious pick would be IronClad dread, 4 attacks + 1 double CC choice + 1 shock assault + 1 character stratagem , T8, chainfist, and 8 wounds



#2
casb1965

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IronClad doesn't benefit from the 1/2 degredation that IH do, so an 8 wound CC only dread will get shot to pieces before it gets to where it needs to be even with a 5+++.



#3
Rodrick

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IronClad doesn't benefit from the 1/2 degredation that IH do, so an 8 wound CC only dread will get shot to pieces before it gets to where it needs to be even with a 5+++.

 

you cant target character bro



#4
faithonwings

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not sure it would. it has lower than 10 wounds and is a character therefore can not be targeted if not closest. If you build you'r list with sufficient screening it might be able to make it across.



#5
casb1965

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Oh you most definitely can target characters you just need the right troops msn-wink.gif

 

Either way, to screen him effectively you'll need at least 3 other units which then makes it an expensive bubble just for 7A in CC. There must be better more cost effective ways of getting 7A in to your opponent.


Edited by casb1965, 18 September 2019 - 02:04 PM.


#6
Rodrick

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Oh you most definitely can target characters you just need the right troops msn-wink.gif

 

dude we are not looking for outliers,

 

but even with las fusil eliminators sniping or wtv,,  feirros 5+ invul,  duty eternal, FNP 5+  and maybe that +1dmg relic in a captain ,  "good look targeting with the right troops wink wink"


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#7
BluejayJunior

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I've had plenty of luck using a Librarian Dreadnought with Blood Angels. I'm sure you could make something similar work with IH too. 


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#8
TrawlingCleaner

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Ironclad would still 1/2 damage as well. It has the dreadnought keyword.
IMO ironclad with chainfist is the way to go

#9
9x19 Parabellum

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Can someone explain to me how a las fusil would "Snipe" a character dreadnought?

 

All sniper based weapons that I can see, at least from SM codex, are going to be wounding a dread character, on, at best, 5's.  Then you have to deal with, at worst a 5+ armor save, and the 6+++, and that's before adding in or utilizing any of the defensive stratagems. 


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#10
Rodrick

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Can someone explain to me how a las fusil would "Snipe" a character dreadnought?

 

All sniper based weapons that I can see, at least from SM codex, are going to be wounding a dread character, on, at best, 5's.  Then you have to deal with, at worst a 5+ armor save, and the 6+++, and that's before adding in or utilizing any of the defensive stratagems. 

 

 

i thought that was the best "sniper" weapon lol

 

then my argument is stronger, character T8 is crazy resilient 



#11
casb1965

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Ironclad dreadnought doesn't have a degredation table so all wounds count towards getting from 8 to zero whereas those with degredation tables count the wounds left as double, so the Ironclads will go 8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1-boom.



#12
casb1965

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On the subject of Las Fusils they are str 8  AP -3  D3 so hit on 3+, wound on 4+, giving you a 5++ and 5+++ save.

 

With average dice 5 shots = 3.33333 hits = 1.66666 wounds = 0.74 unsaved wounds per round = 3 damage

 

How many rounds before your Ironclad gets in to combat or you kill the Eliminators firing at him?

 

I'm not saying he's a bad choice just not the unkillable juggernaught you think he might be.



#13
TrawlingCleaner

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Ironclad dreadnought doesn't have a degredation table so all wounds count towards getting from 8 to zero whereas those with degredation tables count the wounds left as double, so the Ironclads will go 8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1-boom.


Ah, apologies. I wasn't on the same page, I thought you were talking about the half damage strat


Can someone explain to me how a las fusil would "Snipe" a character dreadnought?

All sniper based weapons that I can see, at least from SM codex, are going to be wounding a dread character, on, at best, 5's. Then you have to deal with, at worst a 5+ armor save, and the 6+++, and that's before adding in or utilizing any of the defensive stratagems.



i thought that was the best "sniper" weapon lol,

then my argument is stronger, character T8 is crazy resilient

I'm pretty sure fusils can't target characters, the snipers specify that they can so unless I'm missing something?

#14
emperorpants

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Ironclad dreadnought doesn't have a degredation table so all wounds count towards getting from 8 to zero whereas those with degredation tables count the wounds left as double, so the Ironclads will go 8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1-boom.


Ah, apologies. I wasn't on the same page, I thought you were talking about the half damage strat

 

Can someone explain to me how a las fusil would "Snipe" a character dreadnought?

All sniper based weapons that I can see, at least from SM codex, are going to be wounding a dread character, on, at best, 5's. Then you have to deal with, at worst a 5+ armor save, and the 6+++, and that's before adding in or utilizing any of the defensive stratagems.



i thought that was the best "sniper" weapon lol,

then my argument is stronger, character T8 is crazy resilient

I'm pretty sure fusils can't target characters, the snipers specify that they can so unless I'm missing something?

 

Fusils CANNOT target characters.  If they could there would be no reason for the sniper rifle to exist.



#15
casb1965

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They can't. I was just doing the maths.



#16
casb1965

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Back to the OP, who/what would you be sending the IC plus support cover against? and what would you use to shield it from fire? That might also give an idea of it's worth.


Edited by casb1965, 18 September 2019 - 03:31 PM.


#17
Rodrick

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On the subject of Las Fusils they are str 8  AP -3  D3 so hit on 3+, wound on 4+, giving you a 5++ and 5+++ save.

 

With average dice 5 shots = 3.33333 hits = 1.66666 wounds = 0.74 unsaved wounds per round = 3 damage

 

How many rounds before your Ironclad gets in to combat or you kill the Eliminators firing at him?

 

I'm not saying he's a bad choice just not the unkillable juggernaught you think he might be.

 

duty eternal us only 1 cp though..... and warlord trait FNP 5+ (strat hero of the chapter )



#18
Rodrick

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Back to the OP, who/what would you be sending the IC plus support cover against? and what would you use to shield it from fire? That might also give an idea of it's worth.

 

 

i was thinking using storm raven, 1 turn deployed next to Feirros for that 5++, then flies over to opponents zone with ironclad, if Stormraven get destroyed,  with the auto explode strat is 6'' 1d6 mw and ironclad dissembarks

 

best case, opponent cant kill stormraven, ironclad dissembark 2d6 heavy flamer. then charge 7 attacks. something like that

 

just theory hammer


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#19
casb1965

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@ Rodrick, I gave you a 5+ invun and 5+ FNP in the post, that dropped the 1.66 wounds down to 0.74.



#20
casb1965

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Storm Raven and disembark - see context is everything.  If you have him walking across the field it's a different matter.

 

Still think he might be a glass cannon and get shot to pieces once he's cleaned out the opponent's unit, depends on what you're up against and what you hit in CC.



#21
Rodrick

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@ Rodrick, I gave you a 5+ invun and 5+ FNP in the post, that dropped the 1.66 wounds down to 0.74.

 

still, duty eternal is the real trick, also ironclad dread has smoke launchers lol


Edited by Rodrick, 18 September 2019 - 03:40 PM.


#22
casb1965

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@ Rodrick, I gave you a 5+ invun and 5+ FNP in the post, that dropped the 1.66 wounds down to 0.74.

 

still, duty eternal is the real trick, also ironclad dread has smoke launchers lol

 

 

Yeah it does, but can't use it's flamers then.



#23
Token

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How would company veterans work? Taking wounds instead of the dreadnought?

How does it work, what happends if the Dreadnought is hit with a lasercannon and suffors 6 wounds from it? Would it be a good idea to have a apothecary nearby, reviving stuff?

And what happend to Honor guard in the marine codex?

 

Edit: I guess a Dreadnought cant have the increased damage thing and have a d2 big gatling thing or d2/d3 plasma thing?

 

Please excuse grammar, spelling mistakes and such.


Edited by Token, 19 September 2019 - 11:35 AM.


#24
chapter master 454

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Really there are only a few options for the Character Stratagem. The most obvious one is taking 3 ven dreads and giving them long ranged weapons (double twin-autocannons, twin las and missile launcher) and make them all characters at the back of your army so they can't be touched. Leave a squad of pain in the rearguard marines defending them as the last line and let the dreads do their thing without need for a captain (since all their weapons are heavy, re-roll 1s and their BS2+ basically makes it full re-roll), more easily applied and used along with effective.

 

However if you want to get heavy in melee with them, then Ironclads if you want PURE melee but Vens work too if you want some heavy weapon options for when walking across the board. Going for the stormraven drop, same applies really.

However the main thing to remember is you want to make sure to have extra units around to help intercept any shots, by that I mean be closer than the dreadnought. I mean, an Ironclad charging with this I believe would have 6 attacks (because they get +1 attack from the stratagem don't they) and if melee mode then gets raw re-roll 1s to hit. And hey, take the ironclad launcher thing and attempt to get them extra mortal wounds.


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#25
noigrim

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with gorgon's chain and FNP trait/mantle you get 4++ 5+++ -1 wound

add strat for 4+++


Edited by noigrim, 21 September 2019 - 06:41 PM.

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