Thoughts on Grey Knights and the future

[casb1965]

The Psychic Awakening event would be the perfect time to bring out a new GK codex, it ain't going to happen though.

[Sweetcurse]

And armor? Gene seed and primarization are non issues, but armor is a huge one lore wise.

[casb1965]

Why is armour a problem?  Aegis armour exists outside of the Grey Knights' armour so affixing an Aegis suit to Gravis or Phobos armour shouldn't be a problem.

[Brother Tyler]

Armour isn't a problem. If the Grey Knights get Primaris, their Aegis suits will be given the Primaris/Tacticus treatment.

 

The more interesting question is whether or not the Nemesis weapons will get the Primaris treatment, as well as the wrist-mounted storm bolters (and the heavy weapons). And will the baby Bjorn bots get up-sized, too?

[Brother Lunkhead]

Armour isn't a problem. If the Grey Knights get Primaris, their Aegis suits will be given the Primaris/Tacticus treatment.

 

The more interesting question is whether or not the Nemesis weapons will get the Primaris treatment, as well as the wrist-mounted storm bolters (and the heavy weapons). And will the baby Bjorn bots get up-sized, too?

 

I wonder what Primarisized Nemesis weapons will look like other than upsized?...… Wrist mounted SUPER storm bolters and...… wrist mounted mini-psycanons As far as a Primaris baby Bjorn bot goes, they could trick-out a Invictor with Aegis dodads and a big-ol' psycanon or heavy flamer

[casb1965]

 

Armour isn't a problem. If the Grey Knights get Primaris, their Aegis suits will be given the Primaris/Tacticus treatment.

 

The more interesting question is whether or not the Nemesis weapons will get the Primaris treatment, as well as the wrist-mounted storm bolters (and the heavy weapons). And will the baby Bjorn bots get up-sized, too?

 

I wonder what Primarisized Nemesis weapons will look like other than upsized?...… Wrist mounted SUPER storm bolters and...… wrist mounted mini-psycanons As far as a Primaris baby Bjorn bot goes, they could trick-out a Invictor with Aegis dodads and a big-ol' psycanon or heavy flamer

 

 

Incedium cannon replaced by twin heavy incinerator

Ironhail stubber replaced by psycannon

 

Could work well

[Sweetcurse]

Isn’t making new armor heretical?

[casb1965]

Isn’t making new armor heretical?

 

Is it new armour though?  It would just be adding the Aegis to a Mk X chassis.

[Brother Tyler]

Isn’t making new armor heretical?

No.

[Sweetcurse]

I’m pretty sure making any new tech is heretical, at least that’s what I’ve always known about 40k.

[Brother Tyler]

"[Making] any new tech is heretical..." unless it is sanctioned by the Adeptus Mechanicus. If Roboute Guilliman so orders and the Adeptus Mechanicus approves Cawl or someone else doing it, there's no heresy.

 

Also, as we've seen with the Grey Knights in the past, they have been the recipients of the Imperium's/Mechanicum's most advanced technologies (their strike cruisers, the "highly advanced personal teleporter technology" utilized by Interceptor Squads, the Nemesis Dreadknight, etc.).

 

If Cawl can create Mk X armour for the Primaris Adeptus Astartes, he can certainly create a suitable Aegis mark of armour for Primaris Grey Knights.

[Andarius the Red]

Making new tech is not heretical, 'improving' current models is heretical.

[Ichar]

The PA book will be on preorder this week (filthy Eldar...). The description says a full Codex worth of new rules, Exarch abilities, and a whole new psychic table. Does this give anyone besides me hope that maybe, just maybe, when our book does drop that we will get the fixes we need? Cause it sounds like two codexes worth of Xenos filth improvements. Maybe our book will do the same for the GK.

 

Also, since we never seem to get “full” releases, maybe part two, which by all accounts is near Terra with SOB and possibly Black Templar’s, might have us as well since it is near Titan? That and the fact we could really use a boost...

[Bartali]

Primaris really don’t make sense thematically for GK. They were created long after Primaris chronologically, and so there’s no armor that fits them, Aegis type. If we were getting Tacticus armor, we would have it already. Remember, the whole “Primaris were created long ago and buried” lore is meant to justify new armor. That doesn’t gel with the timeline for GK which is why we get excluded from it, makes sense. I think it’s more likely, and I think I prefer this as well, that we get updated models with the same armor like Black Legion did. Not to say that there couldn’t be a ridiculous explanation as to why suddenly there is updated armor for GK, but I feel that would have happened already if that was the case. Seems the lack of Primaris has more to do with armor problems rather than being able to convert marine biology.

 

Fluff generally doesn't inform model ranges. It's just something 'the fluff !' that gets filled in afterwards,

 

GK don't have Primaris as GW haven't got around to doing the model range yet, it's still filling out the generic marine range. GK will get done when GW have finished the generics and turned to the flavour units.

[Phiasco]

I don't see Primaris marines being a thing in the next GK Codex it doesn't fit with the background of them being similar but different to SM chapters.

 

What I'd prefer to see is better psychic phase and better weaponry, for what is supposed to be an elite force the lack of plasma and melta weaponry is baffling.

 

Primaris Marines in general don’t fit the background of the entire 40k storyline. GW had to shoehorn them in so hard that they broke everyone’s ankles in the process. Fully expect primaris marines, and likely some sort of bs fluff about how ‘at long last the grey knights could claim to be truly incorruptible’, or some such nonsense that completely retcons years of fluff in order to try and justify primaris marines at all.

[Watcher]

It seems that the Eldar/Dark Eldar update in this months White Dwarf is a "buffer" release before they drop more the next Space Marine Codex Supplements. I think it would be safe to say given GW's release schedule that we can expect some sort of Codex release in late November/December. I would be overjoyed if it ends up being Grey Knights. Take heart!

 

   In regards to lore, Cawl certainly didn't have access to Grey Knights geneseed, but Primaris geneseed was heavily modified to resist Chaos (I think the lore amounts it to a 98% of resistance to Chaos taint, but I could be wrong) and because of such, its plausible that Grey Knights should have been first on the list to receive reinforcements. However, none of that has weighed on GW's release schedule, which is ok. Patience is a virtue. 

 

 It also may be worth considering that GW might be removing/demoting them as a minor faction. I would imagine with the removal of Wood Elves (minor factions) in AoS could signal a change in the 40k format as well. 

 

 

Food for thought.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Watcher

[Waking Dreamer]

It seems that the Eldar/Dark Eldar update in this months White Dwarf is a "buffer" release before they drop more the next Space Marine Codex Supplements. I think it would be safe to say given GW's release schedule that we can expect some sort of Codex release in late November/December. I would be overjoyed if it ends up being Grey Knights. Take heart!

 

   In regards to lore, Cawl certainly didn't have access to Grey Knights geneseed, but Primaris geneseed was heavily modified to resist Chaos (I think the lore amounts it to a 98% of resistance to Chaos s geneneed, then taint, but I could be wrong) and because of such, its plausible that Grey Knights should have been first on the list to receive reinforcements. However, none of that has weighed on GW's release schedule, which is ok. Patience is a virtue. 

 

 It also may be worth considering that GW might be removing/demoting them as a minor faction. I would imagine with the removal of Wood Elves (minor factions) in AoS could signal a change in the 40k format as well. 

 

 

Food for thought.

If the Chaos resistance was one of the main reasons for the Primaris geneseed implementation, then logically it would be the opposite; and GKs would be a very low priority to get the Primaris upgrade. GKs are already highly, highly, highly resistance to Chaos, so much so we actually physically hurt the bodies of the neverborn, just by them being in our presence (so cool).

 

Also, I'm not sure if other people have noticed, but there is only the GKs landraider left on the forgeworld website. All the GK dreadnought, bonus iconography parts have been discontinued it seems. Make that what you will., it may be a clue to what GW's production plans for GKs in the near future.

[Brother Lunkhead]

 

   In regards to lore, Cawl certainly didn't have access to Grey Knights geneseed, but Primaris geneseed was heavily modified to resist Chaos (I think the lore amounts it to a 98% of resistance to Chaos taint, but I could be wrong) and because of such, its plausible that Grey Knights should have been first on the list to receive reinforcements. However, none of that has weighed on GW's release schedule, which is ok. Patience is a virtue. 

 

 

Not that I doubt you, but what's your reference for "98% of resistance to Chaos taint"? I could be wrong, but I don't recall any reference to Primaris gene-seed having special resistance to Chaos taint

[Watcher]

 

 

   In regards to lore, Cawl certainly didn't have access to Grey Knights geneseed, but Primaris geneseed was heavily modified to resist Chaos (I think the lore amounts it to a 98% of resistance to Chaos taint, but I could be wrong) and because of such, its plausible that Grey Knights should have been first on the list to receive reinforcements. However, none of that has weighed on GW's release schedule, which is ok. Patience is a virtue. 

 

 

Not that I doubt you, but what's your reference for "98% of resistance to Chaos taint"? I could be wrong, but I don't recall any reference to Primaris gene-seed having special resistance to Chaos 

I double checked because it was highly likely I was wrong (I was). I confused the article "their gene-seed is far more stable and only has a 0.001% genetic deviancy per generation, avoiding the severe instability problems seen with Chapters such as the Blood Angels and Space Wolves" found on the Lexicanum and thought it was in regards to Chaos (I had read it a few months ago).

   However, despite that misunderstanding, I did find that Primaris were crafted to fight the forces of Chaos and due to how they are made, are more mentally equipped to deal with the forces of Chaos than your average Space Marine. So at least there's one upside  

[Captain_Krash]

Have we taken into account on if they did Primarize the GK how the entire line we currently would be non playable? Unless they go the whole you can still use small dudes with a datasheet and here are the GK Primaris datasheets. I just don't see this happening with GK.

 

Also the GK models are not the old and hold up incredible well. The biggest inherent issue with GK is basically that Custodes exist as a playable faction...as GK used to be the elite of elite of armies. GK need to get that epic rule feeling like they used too. Only really need a complete codex rewrite. Orrr make an awesome "Armies of the Imperium" book that includes GK and Inquisition much like in 3rd.

 

Krash

Edited October 11, 2019 by Captain_Krash

[casb1965]

The other thing with Primaris marines is that half of them are vanguard marines and GK don't really do the sneaky attack, they are much more deep strike and hit hard. GW haven't brought out any Primaris that do the things that GK do.

[Brother Lunkhead]

The other thing with Primaris marines is that half of them are vanguard marines and GK don't really do the sneaky attack, they are much more deep strike and hit hard. GW haven't brought out any Primaris that do the things that GK do.

 

I don't think that's much of an issue. Vanguard, Intercessor, etc. equate to purpose and mission. Grey Knight Primaris would still be GK's with GK gene-seed, mission, indoctrination, tactics, weapons, etc. Sure, they may (and probably will) get much of the heavy equipment the Primaris have. They may even get some version of the MkX armour, but you can bet it will look very different from regular Primaris MkX versions. Primaris Space Marines are still just Space Marines whereas Grey Knight Primaris will be Grey Knights 

[Trevak Dal]

Armour isn't a problem. If the Grey Knights get Primaris, their Aegis suits will be given the Primaris/Tacticus treatment.

 

The more interesting question is whether or not the Nemesis weapons will get the Primaris treatment, as well as the wrist-mounted storm bolters (and the heavy weapons). And will the baby Bjorn bots get up-sized, too?

In my head...I am imagining Primaris greyknights with dual stormbolters on their wrists, and falcions or halberd in their hands.

 

Can get new Cawl Psilencer that's basically a chaos chain cannon.

 

Can deep strike.

 

It's very infinity looking in my mind's eye. It's awesome.

[momerathe]

All I'd really want from primaris is some durable objective campers, preferably with >24" range. I agree that most of the default primaris don't really "feel" Grey Knights, particularly the phobos stuff. While GW might make new GK specific primaris units, I'm not really holding my breath.

[Plasmablasts]

I can see a number of challenges in terms of codex design for introducing Primaris that are peculiar to Grey Knights. So far, GW has shied away from producing Primaris units that are direct replacements for First-Born units. Grey Knight units are much less diverse than those of other chapters, so there seem to be fewer niches into which Primaris units could be inserted, without the new units ending up looking out of keeping with the existing design. The basic Primaris GK troop would be a Tacticus-armoured marine with a Cawl-pattern storm-bolter (R 30” AP -1) and a Nemesis force-weapon: lose either the wrist-mounted gun or the NFW and you’ve got an Intercessor with silver paint. However, you’ve now got a Strike Squad with 2W and 2A: except we’ve already got that, with the bonus of a 2+/5++ save. We also have to face the numbers problem: a Primaris GK army is likely to have even fewer models on the tabletop than it does now.

 

Some ideas that might be welcome: Inceptors with twin assault psycannons or psilencers; a fire-support Squad with an anti-tank variant of the psycannon; Aggressors with twin incinerators and a heavy daemon-hammer.