Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

What rules updates would you like to see?


  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1
Kaldoth

Kaldoth

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,801 posts
  • Location:Jacksonville, NC
Well, we're closing down on the end of the year, which means Chapter Approved is right around the corner! With the ridiculous amount of new releases, psychic awakening, and a plethora of new rules and abilities in the last few months the game is currently a bit wonky when it comes to balance. It's no secret that some of the older codices aren't quite stacking up anymore to the new flashy stuff that has come out. So, the question is, what do you guys want to see in Chapter Approved and what do you have a strong suspicion might actually be coming?

I know there's a bit of frustration in the Necron community as far as our dex goes, but I think a lot of it can be fixed with minor point and ability score adjustments. There aren't many units I can think of that need a complete overhaul or new rules added in.

The one unit I'd really like to see updated would be the monolith. Giving it a 2+ save, or keeping at a 3+ and giving it quantum shielding would be fantastic. That and the ability to drop an infantry payload the turn it arrives. It's such an iconic unit for Necrons and it's a shame you hardly see them on the table.

So, what about you guys? What would you like to see updated/overhauled/rebalanced? Take this time to vent any frustrations, but let's keep it constructive :lol: Who knows, maybe one of the GW team will stumble across this little thread and take in some ideas from the endless legions ;)

Cheers,
-Kal

Edited by Kaldoth, 20 September 2019 - 11:05 PM.


#2
Captain_Krash

Captain_Krash

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 954 posts
  • Location:Rhode Island USA
  • Faction: Lamenters

I'd really like to see C'tan be more powerful and less random...Monolith needs help badly 100%...

 

Krash


Edited by Captain_Krash, 21 September 2019 - 09:59 AM.

Ad Victoriam

 

For those we cherish, we die in glory!


#3
jgascoine011

jgascoine011

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 118 posts

All gauss weapons wounding vehicles on a hit roll of 6+

Tesla jumping to different units

And immoteks lighting rule being every turn...not once per game

 

The tesla destructor becoming D2 AP-2 so it can actually harm vehicles

The DDA having a minium damage of 3 if it remains stationary, possible even rolling 2D6 and picking the highest when determining the number of shots.

 

The shard powers not being pretty much useless

 

A points drop in warriors but them being BS4 and WS4

A 1 point drop in immortals but becoming WS4

 

A hugh points drop in lynchguard (around 20 is a better point range for them)

 

Triarchs bennifiting from the dynastys

Praetorians having actually decent weapons

 

Crypteks having some sort of psychic powers - more for buffing and debuffing units

And then the c'tans having more offensive, damage causing powers

 

All vehicles except flyers getting quantum shielding, but no invuns

 

Some sort of mortal wound output...something necrons are really lacking in



#4
Vermintide

Vermintide

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 154 posts
  • Location:San Guisaga
  • Faction: Blood Angels, Necrons
Nothing too drastic, it's a pretty nicely internally balanced army, it's just sort of been left behind by power creep and what I feel were probably just unintentional consequences of some of the adjustments made in the transition to 8th.

Reanimation Protocols needs to be addressed, and the best way I see is making it work like the old We'll Be Back.

Failing that something like an army wide invuln. That might be too strong however.

I think the main problem is just that Necrons don't have the resilience to reflect their points and generally intended playstyle. Either of the above are what I'd probably do to fix it.

Giving Crypteks some abilities like the newer Chaplain/Dark Apostles also makes sense and I'd be surprised if we didn't see it in a future update.

Oh also bring back the cheeky anti-tank thing on gauss weapons somehow. Higher damage on wound rolls of 6 or something like that.

Edited by Vermintide, 21 September 2019 - 10:48 AM.

"The Black Library is not lore."

 

Arch-Magos Mordekai Holatas

Bringer of Sacred Light
5113903.M39


#5
Kaldoth

Kaldoth

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,801 posts
  • Location:Jacksonville, NC

Reanimation Protocols needs to be addressed, and the best way I see is making it work like the old We'll Be Back.
Failing that something like an army wide invuln. That might be too strong however.

I couldn't agree more here. With the way shooting works this edition, it's rare I even get to make RP rolls. Immortal squads can get easily wiped in one round of shooting. An idea I had was to change the resurrection orb. Nobody takes them because of how much they cost vs the benefit you get. I think if a res orb could allow a single wiped unit to make RP rolls once per battle people might be willing to shell out the 35 points for them.

Giving Crypteks some abilities like the newer Chaplain/Dark Apostles also makes sense and I'd be surprised if we didn't see it in a future update.

I actually don't want to see this. It's nice that each army gets it's own units with semi-unique abilities. If necrons got a pseudo chaplain/apostle, then I'm sure every other army would follow suit eventually. I'd personally like to se the living metal buff from the cloak become baseline. It didn't make sense to me that Crypteks can buff RP rolls baseline but can't help Canoptek units when fluff-wise that's pretty much their job. I dunno, maybe make the cloak give a reroll to charges for Canoptek units on top of the speed buff for the Cryptek? It would synergize well with the adaptive subroutines stratagem on wraiths and scarabs.

Oh also bring back the cheeky anti-tank thing on gauss weapons somehow. Higher damage on wound rolls of 6 or something like that.

I would love to see this rule come back! Gauss weapons strip things apart at the atomic level, so there's no reason for this rule having been removed. I get that vehicles play very differently from how they used to. I'd love to see like 6s to hit auto wounding regardless of toughness. It's reminiscent of the old Gauss rule without digging into mortal wound territory.

Edited by Kaldoth, 21 September 2019 - 06:01 PM.

  • Vermintide likes this

#6
jgascoine011

jgascoine011

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 118 posts


Reanimation Protocols needs to be addressed, and the best way I see is making it work like the old We'll Be Back.

Failing that something like an army wide invuln. That might be too strong however.

 

Nooo, i really dont want that. I love unique things about each army. Death Guard getting a FNP and Necrons getting Reanimation. Making them the exact same but by a different name would suck. I would suggest changing our current re-rolls on RP stratagem to being able to use RP on a unit that has been destroyed



#7
Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch

Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch

    ++ CRUDIOR ÆTERNO ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 826 posts
  • Location:Crownworld of Seranon
  • Faction: Space Marines, Necrons
I think he’s referring to the really old WBB, where you rolled it for any destroyed model so long as it was within so many inches of another model of the same type of unit, not necessarily its own unit (e.g. destroyed unit of immortals rezzing off of a nearby unit).
That may be incorrect (never played with those rules), but I would like to see that brought back.

Dosjeska: But then again we are Iron Hands, we will use a hammer as a scalpel. Ace Debonair: Loyalists bow to The Emperor, Heretics bow to their Dark Gods, but everybody bows to Captain Semper. Brian Blaire: Bolted for emphasis
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. -anon [][] Laus Alit Artes-Praise Nourishes the Arts
gallery_77459_13226_2824.pnggallery_4664_12529_16642.jpgDawn Blades Iron Gauntlet Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch's Workshop
Dawn Blades: W/L/D: 2/9/1 wh40k 8th 0/0/0 Kill Team
Naculan Dynasty: W/L/D: 0/0/0 wh40k 8th 1/1/0 Kill Team


#8
Bonzi

Bonzi

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 608 posts
After seeing what vanilla marines get for the points they pay for a basic Intercessors...to be honest our infantry and line units need a significant points decrease to even come close to parity. Our reanimation protocols are grossly overcosted in an edition where deleting entire squads in a single round of shooting is nothing difficult. Unless our infantry get a big boost in durability or a big points cut I'm not sure why to field anything more than the minimum to unlock battalion. For reference I'm saying warriors need to be sub 10 points (probably 9). Immortals need to be probably 14 or 15. Again, I'm comparing this against updated Marines and what they pay for an intercessors which out shoot, outfight, and out durabilities our immortals for the same cost and on top of that they get a heap of bonus rules and synergies.

Our quantum shielded vehicles are appropriately costed.

The Monolith need a massive points cut. It's damage output is laughable and it's easy to kill. If you can kill a knight in one turn you can drop a monolith without trying.

The truth is we need a complete overhaul and rules rework to be functional. You can't really fix what is wrong with Necrons with point adjustments. Our Codex is fundamentally broken mostly due to our porting into 8th Ed. We used to do our antitank work with line infantry. As a result we have few heavy weapons platforms or guns (we basically used to have mortal wounds vs vehicles on a 6+). When they took that away and gave us 1 point of AP in its place the cohesion of our units and model line was broken. We can't deal with tanks unless they drastically underprice our units like Doomsday arks, which causes its own problem. And at a fundamental level reanimation protocols are powerful but useless in an edition with such potent shooting. We need a durability buff to go with reanimation to make it work.

Xeno

Necrons

 

Imperium

Astra/Tempestus Militarum - Vostroyans

Blood Angels - Hands of Sacrifice

 

Traitor Legions

Emperors Children - Making Noise Marines Scream


#9
Dread

Dread

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 797 posts
  • Location:West Texas
  • Faction: Grey Knights
My army got smacked hard tonight. Ad mech. They have so many tricks and damage output is harsh. We have nothing much to counter that. Flyers need something like evasive manuveors to help against so much damage from one model firing at it. Our heavy support units are a joke, a bad joke. They have pistols that get 3 to 5 shots each. Holy cow I got schooled hard.

I agree with most everything that all of you have suggested. Warriors need their 3+ save back or a points decrease.

Tesla needs D2 as suggested.

The doomsday cannon should be ready named the not so rainy day cannon or the bubble cannon. Give it 3d or 6d not D6 damage.

So much to go into. Thanks for listening, rant over.
  • Sir_Flinty likes this
gallery-48988-15465-6059.jpg

I have come to kick ass and chew bubble gum! And I'm fresh outta bubble gum.

#10
Vermintide

Vermintide

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 154 posts
  • Location:San Guisaga
  • Faction: Blood Angels, Necrons

 

Reanimation Protocols needs to be addressed, and the best way I see is making it work like the old We'll Be Back.

Failing that something like an army wide invuln. That might be too strong however.

 

Nooo, i really dont want that. I love unique things about each army. Death Guard getting a FNP and Necrons getting Reanimation. Making them the exact same but by a different name would suck. I would suggest changing our current re-rolls on RP stratagem to being able to use RP on a unit that has been destroyed

 

 

That wasn't what I meant, but it does sound real boring you're correct. I wasn't playing during any of the editions it worked like that though.

 

I think he’s referring to the really old WBB, where you rolled it for any destroyed model so long as it was within so many inches of another model of the same type of unit, not necessarily its own unit (e.g. destroyed unit of immortals rezzing off of a nearby unit).
That may be incorrect (never played with those rules), but I would like to see that brought back.

 

Bingo. I meant the original WBB, which was amazing. You didn't remove the model, you just laid it on its side, and then reanimation went off on a 4+ IIRC. However you only got to make it once, compared to RP which you make every turn.

 

It was completely overpowered back in the day, when nobody else had anything like it. I won't deny that biggrin.png It wouldn't be quite as strong now, but it wouldn't have the huge glaring weakness of RP- namely that it's completely worthless when the full unit is destroyed. Necron units are heavily points costed for RP but in reality, against an opponent who knows how to counter it, you never get to use it. It would also mean you don't have to keep track of which casualties were because of morale.


Edited by Vermintide, 22 September 2019 - 05:55 PM.

  • Dread likes this

"The Black Library is not lore."

 

Arch-Magos Mordekai Holatas

Bringer of Sacred Light
5113903.M39


#11
Kaldoth

Kaldoth

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,801 posts
  • Location:Jacksonville, NC
On RP, I think there are two viable ways to fix it. Everyone is correct in saying that it's an army defining rule that just doesn't see the tabletop because of the way shooting works. Replacing the enhanced reanimation protocols stratagem with a stratagem that allows you to roll for wiped units is one fix. However, I feel kind of "meh" about that one. The reason why is because I shouldn't have to burn command points on something that should be baseline in the army, be it through a rule, wargear, or whatever else. The other option would be to change the way resurrection orbs work. Nobody takes them because they're overcosted for what they do. 35 points to allow another round of RP is garbage frankly. If the res orb just gave an aura bubble that allowed wiped squads to reanimated once per battle round within 6 inches, it would give players a reason to actually take res orbs instead of just running bare bones Lords and Overlords.
  • Mechanicus_Adept likes this

#12
Prot

Prot

    ++ EQUES AEDITUUS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 14,158 posts
With the Psychic Awakening event starting I think it’s the perfect opportunity to start up the long forgotten Pariahs. I loved those models and used an 8 man squad. I think this is the perfect event for their comeback considering their history.
  • NTaW likes this

Click to see....
gallery_2760_14273_30255.jpg
Instagram: @Prot40k


#13
Tyriks

Tyriks

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 3,000 posts
  • Location:Ohio
I think RP would be a lot better if you rolled at the end of the phase for each unit slain that phase, regardless of if the unit survived. Then after the phase ends, anything dead stays dead. The exception would be Resurrection Orbs, which would allow you to roll for every dead model in target unit, regardless of when it died. This would preserve the sense that they're dying and getting back up, it is different from other mechanics, but it would be closer to the usefulness of things like Disgustingly Resilient (and we would not be the only army in the game whose army wide rule can be circumvented by the other players choice).
  • Dread, Mechanicus_Adept and NTaW like this

#14
NTaW

NTaW

    ++ SUSPECTAVI VENEFICI ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 1,985 posts
  • Location:Canada

My top three:

 

DDAs having 2d3 shots and damage (at least on high powered).

 

Monoliths and Scythes getting Quantum Shielding.

 

Tesla destructors and spheres switching to 2D.


  • Prot and Tyriks like this

#15
Mechanicus_Adept

Mechanicus_Adept

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 430 posts
  • Faction: codex marines

My top three wish list for necron in this psychic awakening:

 

* monolith and scythes getting quantum shielding or better particle whip

 

* DDA have 2D3 shots and D6 damage (add melta rule to it)

 

* guass weapons auto wounding vehicles on unmodified 6+ to hit roll. (going against IG heavy tank army has been terrible with Necrons for me)

 

 

The RP discussion sounds good. I have been on the losing end where the RP was utterly useless as the opponent knew what to do.


Edited by Mechanicus_Adept, 27 September 2019 - 11:19 PM.

New edition. New strategies. 8th edition.
gallery_51734_7670_46051.png gallery 48988 15465 48576


8th edition legion of damned detachment rules

#16
Emicus

Emicus

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,484 posts
  • Location:Kristiansand, Norway
Return of proper crypteks!
More wargear choices on lords

Monolith being BiS? That'd be something...

#17
Charlo

Charlo

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 20,379 posts

With the Psychic Awakening event starting I think it’s the perfect opportunity to start up the long forgotten Pariahs. I loved those models and used an 8 man squad. I think this is the perfect event for their comeback considering their history.


I seldom come to the 'cron part of the Forum but Prot beat me to exactly what I wanted to say!

New Pariahs, shove in some lore about blackstone and zing! Instant anti-psyker unit.

#18
NTaW

NTaW

    ++ SUSPECTAVI VENEFICI ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 1,985 posts
  • Location:Canada
Given the consistent new approach to dual faction rules and the 'build your own' section in the SM and now first PA book I think it's safe to say Necrons will get that revamped at least.

If we get any models I guess at most we could see an infantry unit plus a character. Pariahs seem to be all-around the only new unit any Necron player at all wants to see across all the internet groups and forums I keep up with so it would be a shame to see them passed over.

#19
Galron

Galron

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,034 posts
  • Location:Orlando FL
  • Faction: main Iron Warriors

I would have less randomness in our shooting. Doomsday ark either set the number of shots or set the number of damage. This goes for any of our anti-tank weapons, set one or the other, but both as it makes them far too inefficient.

 

I don't know that I would change RP much other than give it to Wraiths and make it a 4+ army wide with crypteks adding a +1.


Yes, I am here all the time because this is the last 40k forum I can access from work. You would think they wanted me to do work or something.... EDIT: Now work has banned it too ...


#20
Kaldoth

Kaldoth

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,801 posts
  • Location:Jacksonville, NC

I would have less randomness in our shooting. Doomsday ark either set the number of shots or set the number of damage. This goes for any of our anti-tank weapons, set one or the other, but both as it makes them far too inefficient.
 


Tbh I think this is more of an edition wide issue, not just Necrons. I get having random shots on some heavy weapons with blast templates not being a thing anymore, but heavy weapon damage across all factions is unreliable for the most part. I'd love to see heavy weapons that are D6 damage across the game become 2d3 or d3+3 depending on what weapon it is.

#21
Galron

Galron

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,034 posts
  • Location:Orlando FL
  • Faction: main Iron Warriors

The thing is most factions have multiple sources of AT and multiple reliable sources. I can spam the hell out of plasma with my guard army. One squad of my scions can drop in with an officer and properly equipped can fire 8 plasma shots with exploding 5s and 6s, hitting on 2s rerolling 1s to hit and wound. We have destroyers but my squad is less than 100 points and I use two with that grouping. We have destroyers who are no doubt the best shooting unit in our army and we pay 50 points each for 3 shots and d3 damage at strength 6.

 

Our only true AT are the Doomsday arks Hd6, Dd6, and the Doomscythe which is even less. From forgeworld we have Tesseract Ark which has a more versatile but lesser power D.Ark gun, and the Tomb Sentinel with its 12" gun(think its Hd6, Dd6, all of which take negatives to hit while moving unlike IH marines, Imperial guard, upgraded eldar vehicles....

 

On that note I add they shouldn't suffer negatives to hit while moving, aside from the sentinel they are unearthly smooth flying skimmers  not bouncing across the ground tanks. Most important though is the random shots and damage. We aren't orks, make either one random or the other(or neither).


Yes, I am here all the time because this is the last 40k forum I can access from work. You would think they wanted me to do work or something.... EDIT: Now work has banned it too ...


#22
BaconCouch

BaconCouch

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 9 posts
  • Location:Northern VA

Our troops need to become tougher. I don't want a horde army feel for them. They are literally made of living super-metal. They should be tough as nails.

 
Warriors should go back to a 3+ save
Immortals should get t5

Lychguard and Praetorians should come with a 2+ save
Overlords should come with a 2+ save

***Ghost Arks NEED to be able to carry ANY infantry models.*****

The whole tomb world deployment idea has been a massive disaster this edition, it should be scrapped and treated completely like other embarkations. 

 

Crypteks need their full suite of Wargear back to give us some semblance of utility, and should be functioning like other army's Psykers/buffmonkeys.

If our characters are going to be stuck at 3 or 4 attacks...their weapons should be...useful.
Warscythes should be 3 damage, and be str +3, AP-4
VoidScythes should be 3+d3 damage at str x2 AP-4, -1 to hit

 

Monoliths need working portals, a 40 point drop, a 2+ save, or quantum shielding, and the Particle whip should go to Heavy 6, Str 9, ap-3, d6 damage

Flayed Ones need a bonus to charge out of deep strike, and -1ap, or an extra attack.

 

Ctan are currently such easy to kill push-overs. They need a 3++. And t8.

 

Doomsday Arks on High Powered Mode should have 2d3 shots. Low power mode should be the same, with the same damage profile.

 

My Will Be Done...Its a good buff...but it only touches a single model, and considering how many buffs other armies are stacking now, we need some kind of update to it.

 

We should have some kind of stratagem to revive dead squads, because currently, its very hard for us to ever get a chance to roll Reanimation Protocols. That, or RP should be more likely, since wiping out squads is flatly....easy to do this edition. Perhaps...Res Orbs should fill this niche instead of just allowing another RP roll?

 

We also need significant buffs to our psychic defenses.


40k Armies I Own

 

Necrons (10,000 Points)

Custodes (3000 Points)

Space Marines (3500 Points)


#23
jgascoine011

jgascoine011

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 118 posts

One thing i really really want is a monstrous HQ lord.

 

Something like the skorpion king - half skorpion (construct) and half necron or a giant destroyer lord.

It would be about the size of the lord discrodant

And it would have a giant tesla warscythe - A warscythe that generates extra hits on a 6+ to hit and can also shoot as a tesla destructor.

12W, S7, T6, A7, M12 WS/BS 2+, Sv2+, and qunatum shielding

 

I feel necrons need something that can do well in combat.

 

15737961771_cd59d9d5ab_b.jpg


  • InKaras and Captain_Krash like this

#24
InKaras

InKaras

    ++AQUILA CÆRULEUS++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 5,747 posts
  • Location:Hamilton, ON

That is super cool. 


April 14th / 2010 A New Kidney for me, yeay!

#25
Captain_Krash

Captain_Krash

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 954 posts
  • Location:Rhode Island USA
  • Faction: Lamenters

Great discussion here folks,

 

I really like the idea of a large CC Necron HQ other than a Ctan. Or maybe some sort of larger beefy robotesque CC monster. Maybe like a really big Flayed one or something meat carving machine event horizon stuff.

 

Pariahs seem like such a "no brainer" to be coming with this whole psychic awakening thing going on I feel like this would be the perfect time to re released those grim dark beast Terminators.

 

Krash  


Ad Victoriam

 

For those we cherish, we die in glory!





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users