Raven Guard Retex and tactica

[DreamIsCollapsing]

Ok guyz, Codex is out, so what about putting our thought and experience together to see what we can do with it. 

 

Made my first game today, against ork at 1k5 point. Ork was standard with 2x30 boyz, loota, bike, Bigboss on bike (whatever he is called now), bigboss on foot with noob in a tank, grav-canon and weirdboy. 

My list was Infiltrator, intercessor, Shrike, Librarian in phobos, Lieutenant and Captain in phobos, 3 Eliminator with normal snipe, 6 bike and 1 speeder and one double lascan Dread.  

 

So my thought are : With Angel of Death troop  (intercessor and infiltrator) are pretty good now. Infiltrator were kinda of meh as he didnt have any Deepstrike unit (only Da Jumb but Infiltrator dont work against that). 

 

Supressor are... meeeh. Surely better with other match up, but cancel overwatch when you got an army without CC unit against an army who love CC and with other strat to cancel overwatch (relic, warlord trait, spell). 

 

Eliminator werent great. But i had already so much to snipe his charac, and they are good as anti horde. So they where to redundant and didnt leave point for anti tank or anti horde units. 

So my first conclusion was : dont go heavy on phobos armor. It's redundant with stratagem, warlord trait. Exept Eliminator (wich are great in RG) and Infiltrator/Incursor/Invictus wich seems great, you should want to bring non phobos unit (Hellblaster, Agressor). This way with all the redeployement possibilities, you got the best of two word. 

 

Also the spell who cancel overwatch and give -1 to hit for one entire turn and the corridor are great (saved a Captain surronded by ork). And Shrike in Tactical doctrin phase is a great killer.

 

 

 

So let's hear your first experience with this codex. Also i'm in the middle of building a Repulsor, not the best unit for RG but it's was in the Christmas box so. What will be the best way to equip this one for us ? 

[Nemisor]

Fairly certain Infiltrators can stop da jump mate. you can auspex scan them so its been clarified that they come in as per reinforcements.  

Edited September 22, 2019 by Nemisor

[dode74]

Confirming that Omni-Scrambler *does* work against Da Jump.  From BRB FAQ page 9 (there are a whole list of clarifications which apply to such units):
 

 

Q: What rules apply to units that are removed from the battlefield after deployment (via abilities, Stratagems or psychic powers), and are then set back up again on the battlefield?

 

A: If a rule or ability causes a unit to be removed from the battlefield and subsequently set back up, the following rules apply to that unit:

 

1. Any rules that are triggered by or apply to units that are ‘set up on the battlefield as reinforcements’ are also triggered by and apply to that unit when it is set up on the battlefield.

...

 

Omni-scrambler: Enemy units that are set up on the

battlefield as reinforcements cannot be set up within

12" of this model.

 

So yeah, both Infiltrators and the Phobos Captain limit Da Jump and other "remove and replace" abilities to 12".

[chapter master 454]

Not a mainstay raven guard man but since I like to see what everything can do, there is something I stumbled on, nothing ground shattering but could certainly help.

 

Phobos captain with Marksmen Honour and Special Bolt Round (and add long range marksmen from successor trait too for the heck of it).

 

So when tactical doctrine goes live (I know, it feels an age for turn 2 for all them "TURN 1 IS ALL THAT MATTERS" iron handers out there) you now have a CAPTAIN firing Damage 4 rounds at 39", ignoring LoS, AP3 and you have +1 to hit (so alaitoc doesn't count for squat) and +1 to wound. The big deal here is the 39" bubble of threat he emits to any character, Damage 4 being enough to clear out any support character and leave most others at deaths door (1 shy on an eldar farseer for example). He will not be a ground breaker but the kicker is he never needs to be visible and being a phobos captain lets him stand anywhere he wants from turn 1.

 

Another thing I notice is the sheer amount of mobility you give armies. Centurions become quite scary when you suddenly start deep striking with them or just take the warlord trait and literally dump them on the opponents door turn 1 (even devastator centurions since they can lack range).

The Warlord Trait for a once-per game jump is quite useful as a second trait on your warlord as a fail safe. Opponent gets kingslayer? They about to close the noose? Nope out. Warlord needed else where in the best "my work here is done. But you didn't do anything". Your traits are extremely powerful in that regard, including the vigilance one with a teeth of terra captain boasting whirlwind of rage (even then, he minces pretty much anything at that point).

 

Your Chapter special relics however imo aren't exactly top notch, Ex Tenebris and Ebonclaws really shout as your best goes to there but the others are kind meh. Then again, maybe I missed something and you guys can point it out to me, point of the thread after all.

 

Also I think Deadly Prize is hilarious, both because of how trolly it is and because I am a JoJo fan ("Killer Queen has already touched that objective -chip- -Boom-")

 

Edit: I forgot the phobos captain rifle is actually 30" range I believe.

Also if you are willing to sac doctrines for a callidus, you could with stranglehold make it possible that the opponent would need to spend 2CP extra to use any stratagem.

Edited September 24, 2019 by chapter master 454

[Bluflash]

Marksman's Honors and Corvidie Bolts very likely don't stack, so you would have the choice each round of 30" D4 or 36" D3 No LOS. Still worth testing out, as its one of the few useful traits for a Phobos Cap in the backline.

 

Ex Tenebris is a solid take on a Phobos LT, as it fixes his 3+ BS to 2+, gives him 3 D2 shots at 36" ignoring cover.

 

The pair together giving rerolls to  backline arty/AT/gunlline will still be able to contribute meaningfully to mid-field action, and take full advantage of the doctrine.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Bluflash

[chapter master 454]

Marksman's Honors and Corvidie Bolts very likely don't stack, so you would have the choice each round of 30" D4 or 36" D3 No LOS. Still worth testing out, as its one of the few useful traits for a Phobos Cap in the backline.

 

Ex Tenebris is a solid take on a Phobos LT, as it fixes his 3+ BS to 2+, gives him 3 D2 shots at 36" ignoring cover.

 

The pair together giving rerolls to  backline arty/AT/gulline will still be able to contribute meaningfully to mid-field action, and take full advantage of the doctrine.

 

I would argue it does work. The bolt itself isn't a relic, just adds new traits to the weapon. The warlord trait itself doesn't work on relics (like Ex Tenebris) because they are specifically relic weapons (they have a named profile which denotes their relic status) HOWEVER Korvidari Bolts don't have a unique profile nor change the weapon, it is still a "Master Crafted Instigator Bolt Carbine" and not a relic you are using it on. Again, this is based on how Marksmen Honour says it "doesn't affect relics" however in this instance wheres the relic? No relic here, just a fancy ability the character has to improve their range and ignore LoS (which Korvidari bolts are, you are just gaining an ability with a designated bolt weapon. It doesn't become a relic itself).

[dode74]

The bolt itself isn't a relic

Yes it is.  It's listed as "Special-issue Wargear Relics" in the codex.  That it has an effect on the weapon doesn't make it not a relic.

The warlord trait itself doesn't work on relics (like Ex Tenebris) because they are specifically relic weapons

No, it states it "does not apply to Grenades or Relics" - nothing requires the relic be a weapon for it to not work.

Edited September 25, 2019 by dode74

[Archon_77]

This is a conversation that is going on all over this site and many others.  Let's just wait on the FAQ.  Fingers crossed that we can do the cool thing, but no reason to argue about it now.  (I'm guessing/hoping it will work as a "special ammunition", and thus not count)

[duz_]

I believe this is the second time this discussion has come up. Let's wait for the FAQ and then take it to the OR.

[Nusquam]

I have a tournament Oct 19th I'm prepping for. I wanted to use my DIY chapter but I dont know if Ill have everything painted by then so Im going to practice with Raptors. Im bringing a double battalion and spending 4CP on relics, Ex Tenebris, Korvidari Bolts on a Phobos Cap, Artificer on Phobos Libby, and Silentus pistol. Alongside them are 6 Eliminators and 10 sniper scouts. Im going to try to get a game in this weekend and see if how the new stuff plays with everything to dial up Surgical Strikes.

[Nusquam]

Had two practice games with this list:

 

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [60 PL, 7CP, 1,220pts] ++

 

+ No Force Org Slot +

 

**Chapter Selection**: Bolter Fusillades, Master Artisans, Raptors, Raven Guard Successor

 

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

 

Detachment CP [5CP]

 

Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of extra Relics

 

+ HQ +

 

Captain in Phobos Armour [5 PL, 99pts]: Camo cloak, Echo of the Ravenspire, Korvidari Bolts, Master-crafted instigator bolt carbine, Warlord

 

Lieutenants in Phobos Armor [5 PL, 81pts]

. Lieutenant in Phobos Armour

. . Occulus Bolt Carbine and Bolt Pistol: Grav-chute, Master-crafted occulus bolt rifle

 

+ Troops +

 

Infiltrator Squad [5 PL, 110pts]: 4x Infilltrator, Infiltrator Sergeant

 

Infiltrator Squad [5 PL, 110pts]: 4x Infilltrator, Infiltrator Sergeant

 

Scout Squad [4 PL, 70pts]: 5x Camo cloak

. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

. 4x Scout w/Boltgun

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Suppressor Squad [4 PL, 90pts]

. 2x Suppressor: 2x Accelerator autocannon, 2x Grav-chute

. Suppressor Sergeant: Accelerator autocannon, Grav-chute

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Contemptor Mortis Dreadnought [9 PL, 168pts]

. Two twin lascannons: 2x Twin lascannon

 

+ Flyer +

 

Stormtalon Gunship [8 PL, 194pts]: Twin assault cannon, Two Lascannons

 

+ Dedicated Transport +

 

Repulsor [15 PL, 298pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Auto Launchers, Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Ironhail Heavy Stubber, 2x Krakstorm Grenade Launcher, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Storm bolter, Twin heavy bolter

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [39 PL, 3CP, 780pts] ++

 

+ No Force Org Slot +

 

**Chapter Selection**: Bolter Fusillades, Master Artisans, Raptors, Raven Guard Successor

 

Detachment CP [5CP]

 

Stratagem: Favor of the Ravenspire [-1CP]

 

+ HQ +

 

Librarian in Phobos Armour [5 PL, -1CP, 101pts]: 3) Spectral Blade, 5) The Abyss, Camo cloak, Force sword, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, The Imperium's Sword

 

Primaris Captain [5 PL, 87pts]: Ex Tenebris, Master-crafted stalker bolt rifle, Power sword

 

+ Troops +

 

Scout Squad [4 PL, 80pts]: 5x Camo cloak

. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle

. 4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

 

Scout Squad [4 PL, 98pts]: 5x Camo cloak

. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle

. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher

. 3x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 3x Sniper rifle

 

Scout Squad [4 PL, 74pts]: 5x Camo cloak

. Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Power sword

. 4x Scout w/Boltgun

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Devastator Squad [9 PL, 196pts]: Armorium Cherub

. 2x Space Marine

. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

 

Eliminator Squad [4 PL, 72pts]

. Eliminator Sergeant: Bolt sniper rifle, Camo cloak

. 2x Eliminator with Bolt Sniper: 2x Bolt sniper rifle, 2x Camo cloak

 

Eliminator Squad [4 PL, 72pts]

. Eliminator Sergeant: Bolt sniper rifle, Camo cloak

. 2x Eliminator with Bolt Sniper: 2x Bolt sniper rifle, 2x Camo cloak

 

++ Total: [99 PL, 10CP, 2,000pts] ++

 

 

It was the ITC championship missions.  Choose all the character killing secondaries for game one and swapped one of them for titan killers game two. Wow are our rules great for this format. 

 

Game one was against a double Battalion of orks, bad moons and blood axes.

 

Turn one killed his warlord for for 5VP. By the end of my turn two I was up 10VP before the battle round ended. I forgot to do Strangle Hold and Decapitating Blow but that's ok because my opponent conceded. He spent 8CP turn one I could have gotten more out of had it been closer.

 

Game two was against a Raven Wrathstellan, Castigator, Lancer, Lightning Moirax and Stygies battalion. I brought my opponents warlord Castigator down to one wound and got 4VP from that alone. I got 7 that round to my opponents 4. I sniped a tech priest and scored markers better. He killed my repulsor and talon. He conceded at the end of his turn one when his Lancer failed to charge my Libby. Next turn I would have killed his Warlord and chunked his remaining knights with an umbra form/spectral blade libby and remaining lascannons and probably getting close to the max 12VP total from Secondaries.

 

Had it been eternal war I would not have done as well. This particular set of rules is very good for MSU of concealed position marines and character killing. Had I been smarter I could have used infiltrators better to score all the objectives game two because I killed everything off them.

[Ishagu]

Just dropping in to confirm that Infiltrators do indeed work against DA Jump, as well as the various GSC shenanigans.

 

I have also spoken with the FLG guys in regards to this and it is indeed a clear intent for them to be a counter to those abilities.

[Malakithe]

Battlescribe says for Marksman's Honors: This Warlord trait does not apply to Grenade weapons, but does apply to Chapter Relics. 

 

When I get home ill look at my SM codex 

[SkimaskMohawk]

It explicitly does not apply to relics in the codex

[dode74]

Battlescribe says for Marksman's Honors: This Warlord trait does not apply to Grenade weapons, but does apply to Chapter Relics. 

 

When I get home ill look at my SM codex 

Battlescribe is incorrect for MH.  It still contains rerolls and the ability to use with relics, which is different to codex.  I have reported it.

[Bluflash]

None of the Phobos traits have been updated in BS as of Friday.

[chapter master 454]

So since we are doing some tactica here, thought I would drop that infiltrating centurions is kinda nutty. While not something I can run, I have put together a theory list of Assault Centurions which has the full monty of 18 centurions. All with Hurricane Bolters, one squad has flamers the other two are meltaguns. Using the master of ambush warlord trait to shuffle the flamer centurions up the board while the others infiltrate (somehow...must be them silent materials the invictor is made of). First wave is only 6 centurions but are mainly just chaff clearing for the main show on turn 2 where 12 centurions appear.

The supporting cast is kinda sparse but enough for 2 batttalions, 2 infiltrator squads, 3 scout squads (with HBs) and 1 intercessor squad with 2 captains and 2 lieutenants. On paper seems kinda scary to face, though naturally the Iron Hands Iron Man Dreadnought would be annoying (however that being said, that list seems like a story of old day necron monoliths, ignore the levi).

[MajorNese]

On paper seems kinda scary to face, though naturally the Iron Hands Iron Man Dreadnought would be annoying (however that being said, that list seems like a story of old day necron monoliths, ignore the levi).

The weak point of the IH levis is the fact that they are entirely useless in CC, and can't fire after falling back. Their overwatch is beyond brutal, but the key component of making them invincible is hugging a character with the Ironstone relic - which is a nice entry into CC. Charge that guy, maybe get a single bolt pistol hit in overwatch, then consolidate into the dread. Bonus points for boxing in the dread so it can't leave. And a full squad of assault centurions kills a levi per turn, making it a surprising hard counter if you find a way to get them into CC in the first place.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

So since we are doing some tactica here, thought I would drop that infiltrating centurions is kinda nutty. While not something I can run, I have put together a theory list of Assault Centurions which has the full monty of 18 centurions. All with Hurricane Bolters, one squad has flamers the other two are meltaguns. Using the master of ambush warlord trait to shuffle the flamer centurions up the board while the others infiltrate (somehow...must be them silent materials the invictor is made of). First wave is only 6 centurions but are mainly just chaff clearing for the main show on turn 2 where 12 centurions appear.

The supporting cast is kinda sparse but enough for 2 batttalions, 2 infiltrator squads, 3 scout squads (with HBs) and 1 intercessor squad with 2 captains and 2 lieutenants. On paper seems kinda scary to face, though naturally the Iron Hands Iron Man Dreadnought would be annoying (however that being said, that list seems like a story of old day necron monoliths, ignore the levi).

 

While a wicked thought and neat idea, I think the extent of this strategy ends at one unit of 6 with Flamers/Bolters. Master of Ambush is the superior delivery system, and the next best thing would be SFTS. Infiltrate is unfortunately hard to get a return on with these guys, do to their incredibly slow movement speed (4" plus advance). 

 

Assuming 24" from enemy at game start, pre-game infiltrate move of 4"+3", then move again (assuming you get T1), another 7", still leaves you 10" from your target. Unlikely to get a charge and sadly not in effective range (or at all) with the meltas (on armor) who should be back further and screened.

 

You can however use a chaplain + SFTS to drop more in on T2+ and try to stick 7" charges out of Deep Strike.

[chapter master 454]

To clarify, I say infiltrate but I do mean the teleport strat. Forgot one of the stats was called infiltrate

[Nusquam]

Ideally you'll know the format of the game first, so you would know if it's alternating or switching deployment and plan accordingly.

[chapter master 454]

another thing since my short reply there was on my phone, the main thing about the list is trying to minimise the moving parts. The captains and 1 of the lieutenants are able to get where they need to be thanks to mobility options and for the load-out I do take Successor traits of Whirlwind and Hungry for battle. Building on the go in.

 

Only reason I don't like Chaplains is purely the start of battle round to them. Powerful but can be extremely clunky when using deep strike (I personally think they should get a buff that allows them to recite a litany on entry, would feel thematic for them).

[Dracos]

Going to use Master of Ambush with the Primaris Chaplain and 4 Centurions

[faithonwings]

Going to use Master of Ambush with the Primaris Chaplain and 4 Centurions

Which centurion build? Most wil only deliver if you have first turn

[Dracos]

That’s a good point. To guard against that I’m going to design a set of Warlord Traits (Relics?) and Stratagems based on going First or Second.

 

At the moment I’m focused on First.

 

The point is, for myself, I plan on using my Chaplain and his Shadow Guard (Assault Centurions) together. Preferably start on the board buffed by chappie and Transhuman Physiology if needed, or Striking from the Shadows, depending on the pregame factors. I wouldn’t call it a Distraction Carnifex per se because I plan to give it every opportunity to be effective but if it is focused on my opponent is going to have to spend a ton of resources and frees up the Aggressors, Incursors, and Intercessors (all x2) to control the midfield Objectives.

 

That’s the plan at least.