What do we expect to see in our new 'dex?

[Slasher956]

This is not wishlisting  - time for that has past - but with our new codex dropping in slightly over a month what are people expecting to see in the codex?

 

For me:

 

Units from the beta codex + a single mobility HQ (most likely a  jump pack canoness).... and thats it data sheet wise.

more strats, inc. Order specific ones

more relics inc. Order specific ones

AS specific Tacical Objectives

Edited September 23, 2019 by Slasher956

[A.T.]

So far I think the only new stuff we've seen is the condemnor boltgun, eviscerators, and cherubs for the retributors.

 

The new canoness sprue doesn't have any options so here's hoping for another hq. Perhaps that shield bearer from the bulletin is based on something.

[Slasher956]

its rare that new character boxes are anything other than solo setup, so I'm expecting (with more than a dash of hope really tbh) a 2nd Sisters HQ blister /small box....

[taikishi]

I'm expecting disappointment.

 

No new units

No new unit options

Acts of Faith that are still bad, in part because Vessels of the Emperor's Will manages to still exist as a stratagem and is 3CP and still a trap option

Vehicles not benefiting from Order Convictions

Geminae that aren't worth taking because they still are a separate unit from Celestine

No Repressor rules in-codex, leaving it a FW only unit that ends up becoming a Legends unit

Super-bloated Elites choices that don't count toward minimum detachment requirements if you take certain characters

Penitent Engines that still can't make it to your opponent because they get shot to death first

[Slasher956]

I'm expecting disappointment.

 

<snip>

No new unit options

 

<snip>

the first bit I agree with... which is why I'm aiming low in my expectations (with the exception of the mobility HQ).

 

the new unit options, we 'know' we're getting at least 1 thing new - a cherub with the retributors :p

[A.T.]

the new unit options, we 'know' we're getting at least 1 thing new - a cherub with the retributors

 

Retributors only. Once per game, in the shooting phase, one model in the unit may shoot twice. 5 points.

[dracpanzer]

Another lesson in what Hope leads too?

[Dominoris]

I expect to see the beta codex with a few minor changes. 

Acts of Faith require a roll but with modifiers can be made to auto pass. Fewer faith points.  No significant change in power.

Exorcist becomes Heavy 2d6, S 8, AP -4, D d6, +1 to wound vs Chaos

Celestian squads: any Celestian can take a storm bolter.  May re-roll faith tests.

 

I hope for much more.  Like bolter drill, blessed ammo (mortal wound on a 6+), powerful and/or useful Acts of Faith, Shield of Faith saves vs mortal wounds in the psychic phase, Exorcists in squadrons of up to 3.

[ERJAK]

I expect to see the beta codex with a few minor changes.

Acts of Faith require a roll but with modifiers can be made to auto pass. Fewer faith points. No significant change in power.

Exorcist becomes Heavy 2d6, S 8, AP -4, D d6, +1 to wound vs Chaos

Celestian squads: any Celestian can take a storm bolter. May re-roll faith tests.

 

I hope for much more. Like bolter drill, blessed ammo (mortal wound on a 6+), powerful and/or useful Acts of Faith, Shield of Faith saves vs mortal wounds in the psychic phase, Exorcists in squadrons of up to 3.

That exorcist change doesn't make any sense.

 

Other than that, if they did that it would be bad days for the faction. Other armies are just getting stronger and we're moving sideways if you're being VERY generous.

 

My realistic prediction is now no new models (because GW are idiots) and a codex that's actually worse than the beta codex because they :cuss up the AoF rework so even poxwalker horde doesn't work anymore.

 

My optimistic prediction is 2-5 new units (1 new character alongside dual builds for seraphim, celestians, and either/or the exorcist/immolator). Turns out the special box units ARE just monopose pushfit versions of the full kits.

 

AoFs get reworked to be a solid halfway point between the index and the beta codex, allowing us to have some of our mobility back without giving seraphim 30" range sniper meltas again.

 

Geminae get put back with Celestine, healing tears becomes a once per game ability, her built in warlord trait becomes not totally god-awful. Still very strong, not as overwhelming as she was.

 

The 4++ bubble dies in a :cuss and :cuss filled hole.

 

Exorcist gets 'roll 2 dice take the highest if you don't move'.

 

Penitent engines get+2 movement and run+charge (possibly either with a drawback or a points increase)

 

Celestians get totally redesigned, are still utterly pointless. (It's optimistic, not insanity.)

 

Vehicles benefit from Convictions, convictions get buffed to be in line with what SM get without doctrines or angels of death.

 

Basically everything gets a points drop, special mention to Immolators, seraphim, rhinos, and repentia.

 

They add a number of new stratagems, relics, and warlord traits some of which are powerful, some of which are terrible. They also nerf Blessed bolts because of course they do.

 

The book ends up being fine. Some good build options, a couple of neat tricks, nothing too crazy. The faction stays obscure but popular enough that we get meaningfully included in around 1/6th of all campaign books and are eventually given 1 additional new character.

 

That covers the most optimistic take on them listening to community feedback and taking easy, low hanging fruit expansions.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Aqui
Use the :cuss emote.

[ThePenitentOne]

One new named.

Plastic Battle conclave units- while they haven't hinted in BSB, Gotfret and Knosso suggests there are plastic moulds.

AoF will be meaningfully different, though I can't say whether it'll be great.

Celestians might be getting serious attention

 

There also will be one "wow" unit. Could be a flyer or a superheavy, but probably a dedicated scenery piece, as that seems to be a thing GW is starting to do more frequently

 

I think it'll be solid, but not top tier.

[Dominoris]

Just as a reminder, here is what we know from the beta feedback in BSB #2

 

Acts of Faith

The Plan: The rules team are looking to rebuild the Acts of Faith system from the ground up to ensure they are both more reliable, and can be used to impact key moments in the battle – just as acts of divine intervention should. You will be as the Emperor Himself, bestowing blessings on your units as and when they are most needed.

 

Exorcist Missile Launcher

The Plan: The rules team are looking at how we can make this iconic, missile-launching organ a more consistent damage-dealing addition to your army. They have a few ideas already – heretics beware!

(("heretics" link goes to Shadowspear page))

 

Celestian Squads

The Plan: The rules team will look to add a thematic new ability or two to the Celestians to help them have more of an impact on the battlefield without sacrificing their role as sworn guardians of their Order. After all, just because Celestians are protectors first and foremost doesn’t mean they can’t dish out some serious pain!

 

 

I don't expect much more than these 3 changes from the current beta codex.

[ERJAK]

Just as a reminder, here is what we know from the beta feedback in BSB #2

 

Acts of Faith

The Plan: The rules team are looking to rebuild the Acts of Faith system from the ground up to ensure they are both more reliable, and can be used to impact key moments in the battle – just as acts of divine intervention should. You will be as the Emperor Himself, bestowing blessings on your units as and when they are most needed.

 

Exorcist Missile Launcher

The Plan: The rules team are looking at how we can make this iconic, missile-launching organ a more consistent damage-dealing addition to your army. They have a few ideas already – heretics beware!

(("heretics" link goes to Shadowspear page))

 

Celestian Squads

The Plan: The rules team will look to add a thematic new ability or two to the Celestians to help them have more of an impact on the battlefield without sacrificing their role as sworn guardians of their Order. After all, just because Celestians are protectors first and foremost doesn’t mean they can’t dish out some serious pain!

 

 

I don't expect much more than these 3 changes from the current beta codex.

My interpretation of that post is simply that they wanted to address a handful of very common feedback responses while not locking themselves into a corner by promising rules changes they hadn't iterated on yet.

 

Considering how flawed the beta codex was, even bringing AoFs back up to index levels wouldn't be enough to put it into a top 32 level book, let alone top 16. They need to seriously take a look at what the army is supposed to be on the battlefield. Whatever they were originally going for with the army's identity, they ended up in 'poxwalker horde'. Nobody wants another poxwalker horde.

[Mekhitar]

I expect our priests to get faith powers like chaplains / dark apostles.

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if Acts of Faith follow a similar format.

[Jacques Corbin]

I wager they will add dataslates for the Ecclesiarchy characters from Black Stone Fortress. I wonder if they will have order keywords?

 

Perhaps Acts of Faith will be more in line with the prayers of Chaplains and Dark Apostles? Kind of like how all Grey Knight units are psykers, all SoB units are Chaplains. Or maybe there will be a Canticles mechanic like the Ad Mech.

 

I really like the lore about Hospitalers also having the added duty of being interrogators. There should be a rule that is any enemy character is slain in melee, and there is a Hospitaler within 3 inches, you should get a CP, or even d3 CP.

[Atrus]

That rule sounds like the genestealer stratagem where you spend 1cp to gain d3cp if a character is slain nearby.

Think the whole interrogator fluff has been around for a while. I recall Sister Verity mentioning she had been in on several interrogations.

 

What I expect in the codex is at the very least everything we already have. Anything more is a bonus. The rules being good would just be icing.

[Montford]

I actually expect a new unit or two (or a return of old ones not currently in 8th Ed.)

[Ficinus]

Allowing Seraphim to shoot instead of attack when in close combat would be pretty amazing, even if it only applied to the bolt pistols.

[Closet Skeleton]

That rule sounds like the genestealer stratagem where you spend 1cp to gain d3cp if a character is slain nearby.

 

Feeder Tendrils is Genestealers, Lictors or Venomthropes and they have to actually kill a character themselves.

 

Imperial Assassins have a similar stratagem.

[Slasher956]

pure speculation here.... but we have 80 cards (2 more than average)... we have 36 TacObjs

 

So thats 6 Acts of Faith - meaning they've tweeked the power level of what ones are in the beta & hopefully removed the restrictions of 1 attempt per battle round!

6 warlord traits - a few little tweeks on the ones from the beta

 

giving us 32 strats ... thats the 4 basic (3 rule book + 1 CA) any army strats, 1 per Order plus the existing 14 .... & 8 new strats!

[ERJAK]

That rule sounds like the genestealer stratagem where you spend 1cp to gain d3cp if a character is slain nearby.

Think the whole interrogator fluff has been around for a while. I recall Sister Verity mentioning she had been in on several interrogations.

 

What I expect in the codex is at the very least everything we already have. Anything more is a bonus. The rules being good would just be icing.

For me it's the rules being good is the minimum, keeping everything we have would be a bonus, new units is icing.

 

And everyone knows that a cake without icing is terrible.

[Jack Burton]

Unless it's a rum cake.  And the rum is a Jump Canoness.

[Ezr91aeL]

I can recall that in one (or more) bulletin GW said we would get all the old units an some new ones too. I expect these new ones to be the Jump Canoness and the Palatine (the equivalent of the marines lieutenant). After all it's clear the lack of HQ choices for sisters, especially in a edition that requires many HQ to deploy a decent army.

 

There is also a little glimpse of hope for a generic Living Saint (in a bulletin there was a vague hint about that).

 

Other than units I expect to see in the codex several examples of minor orders in a similar way the Marine codex does with successors chapter, expecially considering the greater connection of them with their progenitor orders (a major order Canoness can give orders to sisters from a "successor" minor order of her one)

[Slasher956]

well from the china pictures we know there are some more offical colour schemes (one is pure yellow armour)

 

Now if they are adding extra HQs will they add extra Troops... so we actually have a choice instead of just battle sisters

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by Slasher956

[Ezr91aeL]

well from the china pictures we know there are some more offical colour schemes (one is pure yellow armour)

 

Now if they are adding extra HQs will they add extra Troops... so we actually have a choice instead of just battle sisters

 

I hope too for the second choice of troops.

 

Anyway, on the first page there is a sister with contemptor boltgun (the one with the antipsyker crossbow) and a power mace/maul. Maybe that will be the new Celestians configuration?

[Slasher956]

looking at the model, just as likely to be a sister superior with the condemor still in the ranged weapons wargear list.