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Unit of the Week: Incursor Squad

Blood Angels Unit of the Week series Blood Angels tactica

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#1
Jolemai

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Welcome to part two of the Blood Angels Unit of the Week Series!

Following the release of the 8th edition Codex, there is no better time to discuss all the units we have access to. Each week a different unit will appear, with the idea being that we discuss how best to use that model on the battlefield. Where part one will focus on the unique BA units and part two will focus on BA units that are new to this edition of the Codex, part three will discuss how to get the best use the generic units from the past that are still with us (and that many of us have in our armies still).

Note, this isn't to lament any nerfs, etc, from previous editions; the rules are as they are so try to unlock its potential for those who wish to use them all the same. Similarly, this thread is only for using the option being discussed; it matters not if you feel something is a better choice as such comments aren't constructive to the topic and shall be removed.

Without further ado, here's this week's entry:

sml_gallery_62972_10568_1098.jpg Incursor Squad


What are you thoughts here folks? How best would you use an Incursor Squad?

  • To compliment a list, or to build a list around? Will the beta rules affect your list(s)?
  • Will you be running multiple units? MSU or Combat squads?
  • Footslog or transport?
  • Are you taking the Haywire Mine and how are you utilising it?
  • How are you making use of Concealed Positions, Multi-spectrum Array, and Smoke Grenades?
  • Are you buffing this unit? If so, how?
  • Stratagems of note?

Over to you.


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#2
Jolemai

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Should you want your model on display here (or on another thread from the series), then submit a photo here please.


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Blogs Blood Angels | Veritas Vitae | Battle Reports | Terrain | IXth Legion | Miscellaneous Imperials
1000 Scout list W:0 D:0 L:4
1250 Death Company List (jump) W:0 D:0 L:4
1500 Light Mech List W:0 D:0 L:0 Dreadnought List W:1 D:0 L:1
1750 Hybrid List W:1 D:0 L:0
1850 Death Company List (mech) W:0 D:0 L:0
2000 Heavy Mech List W:0 D:0 L:0 Two Towers List W:4 D:0 L:4
Apocalypse W:1 D:0 L:0 | Heresy 2500 Mechanised IXth W:0 D:0 L:0

#3
Neuralshock

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I haven't played any games proxying them yet, but I can't wait for the kit to come out (hoping I can take riever bodies and kitbash effectively)

I think they'll make for an interesting skirmisher unit that can take and hold ground from other infantry units. They'd probably be the best target for the "go fast" phobos power.

The haywire mine is a peculiar gimick, I don't think just one will leave any lasting impact, but 3 in one location could make any unit think twice about soaking 3d3 mortal wounds

#4
Charlo

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I actually think the mine is super powerful. So many armies don't want to take D3 mortal wounds (+1 extra if it's a vehicle).

Something like combat knights will really feel the hurt.

#5
Majkhel

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The mine can potentially have a huge effect on the game - place is right and many oponents will go to great lenghts to avoid it. Couple it with the Drop Pod's terrain denial abilities, infiltrating units and suddenly you can effectively cut out a huge swathe od ground turn 1.

WIP thread - Blood Angels 5th Company "Daemonbanes"
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"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." ~W. Churchill

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#6
Karhedron

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Incursors look like being an offensive alternative to the defensive options offered by Infiltrators. Both units offer a way to get reasonably durable infantry into the mid-field during deployment but Incursors specialise in damaging the enemy directly whereas Infiltrators seem more focused on hampering them.

Their signature ability to ignore negative penalties to hit makes them strong against armies that field such units, particularly infantry who rely on this for protection (Alaitoc are going to hate these guys as are Plague Bearers). Units like Aircraft are going to be less bothered as they are still just packing bolters at the end of the day. Haywire Mines are interesting but your whole army can only prime one Mine per turn which means that trying to hit an enemy unit with multiple Mines is going to be tricky to pull off.

Overall, I think Incursors fall into the same niche as Infiltrators for me. They have some interesting tricks but they tend to be quite situational against particular opponents. In many cases, Intercessors will simply offer better value for your points. A single unit of Incursors is likely to disappoint.

Having said that, using Incursors en-masse (possibly alongside Infiltrators) is an interesting way to get a lot of bodies close to the enemy quickly. Their paired combat blades are not exactly fearsome but means they can get a little extra mileage out of Red Thirst. My current thinking is that in dual-Battalion or Brigade lists, a mix of 2x5 Intercessors, 2x5 Incursors and 2x5 Infiltrators could be a good mix of Troop units. If you are facing armies that like to rush you (e.g. Daemon Bomb, GSC, Jumping Orks etc), use the Infiltrators to screen your army. If your opponent likes their cover, use the Incursors to help winkle them out while the Intercessors hold the backfield. If your opponent is just castling up, both Incursors and Infiltrators can be used to get stuck in quickly and tie up enemy units while your harder hitting units play catch-up or come in from Reserves.

The key to these guys is going to be getting mileage out of them when your opponent does not have special rules that they can counter. When this happens, play like true sons of Sanguinius and run them aggressively or grab mid-field objectives (particularly useful in Maelstrom missions).
  • Indefragable likes this
Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.

#7
Neuralshock

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I think you've pegged it karh. That seems like 2x2x2 would be the best swiss army knife build troopswise. I think stalker bolt rifles would pair well with the other frontline squads with -2 AP 2D.

I think if you wanted to squeeze every ouch of blood out of them utilizing the hobo librarian powers is a good way to do it. Giving one squad "cloud of flies" to sit on an open obby and slingshotting a smoke nadded squad up the board would be an interesting way to grab ground.

Also a classic pick is the standard of sacrifice to make any of those primaris an absolute pill to remove

Edited by Neuralshock, 25 September 2019 - 07:34 PM.


#8
Vermintide

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Their bolters seem pretty meh, but of course, the blades are the talking point for us. Ten of these guys, with shock assault, should get 5 additional attacks on average. It's nothing major, but when you consider that these guys can deploy right in the enemy's face and make a pretty much guaranteed charge, it could work wonders for chaff clearance, which as we all know is a cornerstone of success for Blood Angels. It's vital to clear the way for those elites descending on jump-packs.

I think where they get genuinely interesting is that they have support characters that can infiltrate with them. To my knowledge, that's a first, and it's one thing you can't argue "scouts do the same thing cheaper". First turn charge with re-roll support from a lieutenant or two? No need to waste your Death Company mopping up cultists any more. If you use them as your sole troop choice, you can have nearly your entire army on top of the enemy by turn 2.

Probably not the most tactically prudent decision in a lot of cases, but lots of things will die. Blood for the Blood Go... blet... Ahemmm. msn-wink.gif


"The Black Library is not lore."

 

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#9
sfPanzer

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Their bolters seem pretty meh, but of course, the blades are the talking point for us. Ten of these guys, with shock assault, should get 5 additional attacks on average. It's nothing major, but when you consider that these guys can deploy right in the enemy's face and make a pretty much guaranteed charge, it could work wonders for chaff clearance, which as we all know is a cornerstone of success for Blood Angels. It's vital to clear the way for those elites descending on jump-packs.

I think where they get genuinely interesting is that they have support characters that can infiltrate with them. To my knowledge, that's a first, and it's one thing you can't argue "scouts do the same thing cheaper". First turn charge with re-roll support from a lieutenant or two? No need to waste your Death Company mopping up cultists any more. If you use them as your sole troop choice, you can have nearly your entire army on top of the enemy by turn 2.

Probably not the most tactically prudent decision in a lot of cases, but lots of things will die. Blood for the Blood Go... blet... Ahemmm. msn-wink.gif

 

The support characters can infiltrate together with the Scouts as well though, so that's really not an argument. ^^


Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#10
Captain Smashy Pants

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I think I would use these guys and or infiltrators to provide a landingzone for hard hitters like LC tacticool combat squads, or LC devastators in DP. Another use is provididing a screen to protect Cpt Smash as he forlorn furies his way up the board and to thin out any screens that your opponent might have place to protect their valuable units from Signore Smash. It appears that between all four Phobos units, (those being reivers, infiltrators, incursors, and eliminators) scouts are pretty much obsolite which is a shame, because barring their heads, and some scale issues, they are one of my favourite SM units to look at. Ofcourse, scouts benefit in a couple of ways that the others don't, but this thread is about incursors, not scouts. Out of curiosity ho would people field them from a fluff and paint scheme perspective, as main battle company marines, or in the tenth company along side scouts?
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I do find it hilarious that some people were saying the size of newer marine stuff looks great next to regular humans like Cadians, and then GW upsized the humans so they are the same height as marines again :lol: :lol: :lol:


#11
Vermintide

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Their bolters seem pretty meh, but of course, the blades are the talking point for us. Ten of these guys, with shock assault, should get 5 additional attacks on average. It's nothing major, but when you consider that these guys can deploy right in the enemy's face and make a pretty much guaranteed charge, it could work wonders for chaff clearance, which as we all know is a cornerstone of success for Blood Angels. It's vital to clear the way for those elites descending on jump-packs.

I think where they get genuinely interesting is that they have support characters that can infiltrate with them. To my knowledge, that's a first, and it's one thing you can't argue "scouts do the same thing cheaper". First turn charge with re-roll support from a lieutenant or two? No need to waste your Death Company mopping up cultists any more. If you use them as your sole troop choice, you can have nearly your entire army on top of the enemy by turn 2.

Probably not the most tactically prudent decision in a lot of cases, but lots of things will die. Blood for the Blood Go... blet... Ahemmm. msn-wink.gif


The support characters can infiltrate together with the Scouts as well though, so that's really not an argument. ^^

Yeah, but what I meant is that you get more value out of them alongside other phobos units and their own special rules. Scouts do a different thing cheaper ;)

"The Black Library is not lore."

 

Arch-Magos Mordekai Holatas

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#12
Indefragable

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@karhedron summed it up quite well.

For me, I’m excited about the idea of adding some more teeth to my typical scout spam build (4-5x5 CCW scouts that start as close to the enemy as possible to tie him up), Having 2W 3+ bodies that can do essentially the same thing is just gravy for me, especially if I’m packing 2W Sang Guard and such as well.

The real test will be if their point cost is worth it.
  • Karhedron likes this

Call me Indy. It's less syllables.

 

 

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#13
The Unseen

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I feel they'll have a lot of uses once they get a price drop.
They're pretty absurdly expensive right now.
To the point that scouts are probably just better thanks to diffuse wounds and damage output.
If they were, say, 75% or even 60% cost per wound, they might be good, great even.
But when your paying almost twice a scout per dude, for marginal increase in damage per guy, and a 2nd wound, it's way better to just have two 1 wound dude instead.

Infiltrators at least do something scouts kinda can't, which is totally deny those deep strike charges. I would argue that they're also too expensive for that niche ability, but they do have it.

Incursors don't do anything unique, except ignore cover saves, but, so do melee scouts more or less.
Well, I guess the mine is unique, but I don't think it's good.

Vanilla marines get more out of them currently thanks to doctrines.
Giving ignore cover bolters -1AP and they start to grow some teeth, and they don't have as many ways of assaulting dug in units, so being able to shoot them is more vital.

But I do kinda want to see someone go full ham with their paired blade rule.
Give them unleash rage, Corbulo buff, and Astoraths chant.
Hitting on 2s, 5+ generate 2 additional attacks.
If your swinging against Chaos, make it 3 additional attacks on a 5+.
10 of them put out 41 attacks initially, which generates 27 EXTRA attacks.
And about 65 hits.
At Str5 thanks to Corbulo, they take 10 wounds off a Knight.
Or kill 13 MEQs.
Or 25 Poxwalkers, which is actually a unit where that isn't gratuitous overkill.

"For the Emperor and Sanguinius! Death! DEATH!"

 

 


#14
sfPanzer

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If they were 60% of what they cost now they'd be an auto include and outclass every other Marine Troops choice easily.

 

Incursors don't do anything unique? You mean apart from ignoring hit modifier and being able to place mines? On top of ignoring cover and having exploding 6s in melee?


  • Karhedron and Silas7 like this

Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#15
Karhedron

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Incursors are cheaper than Infiltrators by enough of a margin to make them potentially interesting. For 2ppm more than an Intercessor, you get the ability to set up in your opponent's face to deliver T1 pressure and you can ignore negative to-Hit modifiers and ignore cover. Granted you lose the Ap-1 on their guns but to me, these guys seem more potentially useful than Infiltrators. They do less damage per point than Scouts but are significantly more durable with 2W and a 3+ save (except against 2D weapons). I agree that if they were cheaper than Intercessors, they would be auto-include. I think their points cost is fair for what they bring (although I am surprised Infiltrators still cost 22ppm in the new codex but that is a different subject).

 

They also ignore BS modifiers which (I think) means that still hit units like a Culexus on a 3+. Edge case but potentially useful.


Edited by Karhedron, 30 September 2019 - 08:28 AM.

  • Indefragable and Majkhel like this
Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.

#16
Indefragable

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For me, what makes Incursors interesting (over Infiltrators) is they basically are bolter Scouts + CQC Scouts in the same unit; they can Infiltrate, plink away with bolters, and get a decent volume of attacks when charging things (which they will be able to do if you set them up 9" away from enemy DZ and get first turn).


  • Charlo, Karhedron, Silas7 and 1 other like this

Call me Indy. It's less syllables.

 

 

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#17
Wassa

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The support characters can infiltrate together with the Scouts as well though, so that's really not an argument. ^^

 

 

I've been out of the loop for a while, what characters can infiltrate now?


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#18
sfPanzer

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The support characters can infiltrate together with the Scouts as well though, so that's really not an argument. ^^

 

 

I've been out of the loop for a while, what characters can infiltrate now?

 

 

The Primaris Captain in Phobos armour and the Primaris Librarian in Phobos armour.


  • Wassa likes this

Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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