Current State of Reivers

[ImperialTuba]

The look of Phobos armor has been growing on me recently. I just picked up the Captain from Shadowspear and that got me examining the other Phobos units. I still think Infiltrators are a bit too expensive, despite how nice the models look and the auto-wounds on 6s. That brought me to Reivers, who I'd previously written off as a "meh" choice since I'd last looked at their stats on BattleScribe.

 

Overall, they seemed too expensive and underwhelming. Is this still the general mood? Seems like they got a point reduction, unless I'm mistaken. 80 points for a squad of five without grav chutes or grapnel launchers. And the ability of the shock grenades caught my eye this time around unlike before. Disabling overwatch and subtracting from enemy hit rolls seems like it could make them a useful support tool. 

 

The only thing I'm disappointed about is that the Bolt Carbines didn't make the jump to Assault 3 like the Auto Bolt Rifles did. 

 

How do you use Reivers with your armies, or do you think they're just not worth taking? If so, how do you think they should be changed to make them more useful? 

[SkimaskMohawk]

A lot of the primaris, especially vanguard, units really depend on the chapter tactics and what first founding they're descendants from.

 

From how I've seen reivers talked about, the preferred use is a backline bully unit with carbines. You can plop them down in tactical doctrine and start really pressuring their objective holders. The shock grenades are unfortunately pretty tricky to get to work as you can't use them off deepstrike, so youd need to use it them out of an impulsor where they wouldn't be charging.

 

That being said, raven guard or white scars descendants can really manipulate charge distances and deployment to get good use out of melee equipped reivers, without paying the points to give them grav chutes.

[Mandragola]

To be honest I don't think there's currently a good use for reivers. Bolt carbine ones are kind of just bad ABR intercessors. The melee ones have a problem against any kind of tough melee unit, which will splat them and take minimal damage in reply. Unfortunately there's just always at least one unit that can do everything that reivers do, better.

 

That said, infiltrators and incursors both seem great, if you want more Phobos stuff. I haven't yet used them (I'm waiting for my mini-dex) but I plan to field a couple of squads of infiltrators as my first troop picks from now on. You just shut down armies like GSC, who would otherwise be a really nasty match up.

 

I think people worry a bit too much about the various different weapon options. To me, marine troops are about CPs and screening. None of them really kills that much with shooting. If they get into melee (on purpose at least!) it's generally to either pin a tank or against something like a mortar squad that can't fight back. And the biggest problem for reivers is that they aren't troops. Why would you take a unit that does only half the job?

[Panzer]

Reivers are okay. Not super good so you won't see them in cutthroat competetive lists but if you use them as cheap harassing unit instead of treating them as something they aren't (like a dedicated melee unit for example) then they can pull their weight in friendly and semi-competetive games easly.

 

The combat doctrines help a lot since now it means they can drop either with AP-1 Carbines or a turn later with AP-2 pistols and AP-1 melee attacks. The points drop nice too of course.

Edited September 25, 2019 by sfPanzer

[The Great Squark]

Reivers are an elites unit trying to do a troops job. Space Marines have plenty of S4 shooting/assault with no AP. They really don't need more. They are slowly accumulating a large number of force multipliers, though- Between the Obscuration Discipline and the Space Wolves Stalker pack, you might be able to make something of them. Maybe. Really, though, let them stay with their Lictor Buddies in Kill Team where their prey is plentiful and their predators are few- And where you always have the choice to bench them if someone brought, say, Adeptus Custodes.

 

Infiltrators are priced as high as they are due to their ability to protect key units from reserves. And if your meta is lousy with giant blobs appearing from reserves/reinforcements, they're worth their weight in gold. They're also a source of Concealed Positions for Space Wolves whose scouts lack that ability (as well as Objective Secured, which the Infiltrators have). Or just Concealed Positions with a native 3+ and 2 wounds.

 

Incursors are interesting. They're a cheaper source of Primaris Concealed positions, and their ability to ignore penalties to lets them root out certain otherwise tricky units. There's also some shenanigans going on with stacking as many Melee "Triggers on an unmodified 6 to-hit" abilities as possible. Now if only GW would actually release them.

Edited September 25, 2019 by The Great Squark

[Captain Idaho]

I'd describe them as the equivalent of Assault Marines - small, niche units that run into the problem there are plenty of units out there that do their job better. Pumping more points into them is difficult to justify.

 

Reivers are a harassment unit but really, even 10 of them, just won't last long or really harass many opponents you're up against.

 

Save the points in my view. (though if you like the look of them, add them in. There's no better reason that can contradict that - I always take lists I enjoy with a theme as a priority)

[Dracos]

Use as a screen and drop with Inceptors or a charcter deep striking. After that push into something soft or keep concealed and use as Engineers in ITC style events. Especially useful for this if Raven Guard imo.

 

Other than that a unit I like that should count as Troops and slide Infiltrators/Incursors into the Elite slot, because they just are comparatively.

[Son of Sacrifice]

I wouldn't trade Infiltrator troops for Reiver troops, ever.

[Panzer]

Reivers and Infiltrators/Incursors also have very different jobs. Infiltrators/incursors are a proactive unit you put where you want them during the deployment phase and then have to stick with that decision. Reivers are a reactive unit you put into reserves and drop turn 2-3 where you need them based on how the match evolved. Also the cheapest source of wounds in the Codex.

[Captain Idaho]

The problem with them dropping in where you need them is they won't do anything the turn they drop, except put a few bolter shots on something. If they get a lucky charge then they can swamp something but really, what kind of threat are they really putting out?

 

If you want a powerful reaction force then go for something more powerful. Cheap wounds? Pay the extra points for Intercessors or flood with Scouts that fill your Troops. Distraction force? Drop Pod something that does damage - even 2 5manTactical squads will do the trick over Reivers (4 specials).

 

Reivers are the Primaris Assault Marines - they don't have a place anymore.

[Morticon]

Incursors seem like better reivers :/ Troops too. 

[Panzer]

The problem with them dropping in where you need them is they won't do anything the turn they drop, except put a few bolter shots on something. If they get a lucky charge then they can swamp something but really, what kind of threat are they really putting out?

 

If you want a powerful reaction force then go for something more powerful. Cheap wounds? Pay the extra points for Intercessors or flood with Scouts that fill your Troops. Distraction force? Drop Pod something that does damage - even 2 5manTactical squads will do the trick over Reivers (4 specials).

 

Reivers are the Primaris Assault Marines - they don't have a place anymore.

 

They do often enough something in my games, especially with Carbines, and even if they don't the opponent can't just ignore them because next turn they are bothering his vulnerable units. Forcing him to shoot your cheap wounds instead of shooting your expensive wounds is 'doing something' too.

 

I know it's not a popular opinion, but Reivers often won me games in a way Inceptors and such couldn't have done. Not alone obviously, I usually drop them together with Inceptors, but that's why you don't view units in a vacuum. I'm not claiming they are a unit to put in competetive tournament lists, but they are good enough for friendly semi-competetive games.

[Captain Idaho]

Well I'll have to remain to be convinced.

[Lemondish]

They do often enough something in my games, especially with Carbines, and even if they don't the opponent can't just ignore them because next turn they are bothering his vulnerable units. Forcing him to shoot your cheap wounds instead of shooting your expensive wounds is 'doing something' too.

 

Very well put - that is something I had not fully considered as valuable up to this point. 

[Exilyth]

I've got 3 ETB reivers for kill team, which do ok. But with their current rules in 40k, I don't intend to pick up more.

 

Reivers & Assault squads are probably usefull in urban environments where they can make use of the verticality and blocked LoS - but it's been a while since I last saw a table with a terrain density high enough to be called urban terrain.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Exilyth

[Trevak Dal]

Reivers could be an excellent base for converting Eliminators. Glob on a green stuff cloak, and have them with sufficiently large sniper looking rifles and bobs your uncle.

 

$50 for three go home gw you're drunk.

 

Reivers have mp5k looking Bolters. So there is that.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Trevak Dal

[Lemondish]

Reivers could be an excellent base for converting Eliminators. Glob on a green stuff cloak, and have them with sufficiently large sniper looking rifles and bobs your uncle.

 

$50 for three go home gw you're drunk.

 

Reivers have mp5k looking Bolters. So there is that.

I really wish those carbines could be used in close combat.

 

Or fired at a -1 to hit on the drop in the movement phase, giving them almost fire twice when they land.

 

The rest of their rules don't synergize well with their deployment rules.

 

Those carbines are cool - and with them being unique weapons, there was room to change them without affecting anyone else. Sadly, GW is not yet using the brilliant separation of Primaris units and abilities to its fullest potential.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Lemondish

[Red_Shift]

Looks wise I've seen some good work with the new reiver lieutenant, mostly replacing the knife with a spear or similar. The actual base unit looks ok with a head swap and a chainsword.

 

Table top wise I think the invictor might give them a new lease of life.

[Panzer]

I'd love to take the Reiver Lieutenant if he'd keep his grav-chutes...

[ImperialTuba]

Table top wise I think the invictor might give them a new lease of life.

What makes you say that?

[BrainFireBob]

I'd love to take the Reiver Lieutenant if he'd keep his grav-chutes...

Yep. It'd make their fear aura useful, since he Grant's a -1 on his own

[Panzer]

And he could actually join his Reiver buddies instead of hanging around with the regular guys lol

[Red_Shift]

 

Table top wise I think the invictor might give them a new lease of life.

 

What makes you say that?

I meant impulsor, sorry.

[Cryptix]

And he could actually join his Reiver buddies instead of hanging around with the regular guys lol

Honestly, I might just ask my playgroup if I can houserule and play him with Grav Chutes and CCW/HBP. It's not like it's anywhere near broken, and if I get someone who says no, well my Reivers are part of my Raven Guard Successor chapter so I can just SftS him.

[Jacques Corbin]

Well, as a Raven Guard player, current plan is Grav Chutes and Carbine along with the Grav Chute and Occulus Carbine Lieutenant. Drop them in during Tactical Doctrine. Either drop them onto terrain, and either hold or shelter for a turn, or ideally there will be an exposed character I can drop them behind. In a perfect world, a Librarian will also be able to Shadow Step over a Chaplain for Catechism of Fire.