New player confused about chapter character attack bonus

[Aegisvald]

I am looking at the bonus Raven Guard get for attacking characters, however as I understand it, its very hard to actually target characters because of look out sir. Is this a practical rule or is it only useful if your opponent screws up and puts their character too far away from support? I'm new and still building a collection and have not even bought the raven guard book yet but they appeal to my style. I want to make an educated decision as I invest in a new army.

Are there some units that can target character like eliminators that can be fielded in reasonable numbers. Theme is important to me and while I am not looking for  the most powerful options, I do want the theme of an army to come out on a battlefield or it feels like i might as well choose something else.

 

Ideally I like the idea of well trained soldiers picking their targets tactically rather than a mighty hail of fire going blindly into a dust cloud. 

 

Am I looking in the right direction?

 

Any advice or suggestions are welcome. 

[seriade]

Most knights that you encounter will be characters so there is that.  A unit of stalker intersessors can with a stratagem target characters along with scouts wiht sniper rifles.  The general focus of the faction is to mess with your opponent during your deployment.  You want stuff that will deploy a castle midfield and hold that point from the enemey while your elite units etc push up and remove harder targets while your snipers etc deny them use of auras and command models.

Edited October 1, 2019 by seriade

[Ania Redfang]

It also works in combat I believe, so your captains and the like will have an easier time dueling other heros, and allows Shrike for instance to hit on 2s, wound on 3s with a reroll against other space marine guys/equivalent.

 

Smash captain will wound a knight character on 3s with a hammer as well, making him nearly as good as the blood angel one.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Ania Redfang

[duz_]

Look out sir... There's a USR I haven't heard in a awhile :lol:

 

On the surface the CT seems very limited because of character targeting restrictions. It certainly lends itself to snipers.

 

However it also applies in cc as AR mentioned above.

It also incentives a pay style where you maneuver your units on positions where they are able to target characters directly.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Are there some units that can target character like eliminators that can be fielded in reasonable numbers. 

 

Don't forget Scout Snipers, if you're thinking thematically. You could easily runs some Scouts and large units of Stalker Bolt Rifle Intercessors. On T1 youll be in Devastator Doctrine, so all those weapons will get -1 additional AP. Then on T2 you can shift to tactical and get the anti-character bonus.

 

If you like snipers, ours is the chapter for you. 3x3 Eliminators is shaping up to be mandatory I think.

[Claws and Effect]

Don't forget it also applies in melee combat. It's a lot easier to charge a character than shoot at one.

 

Also, we have rather a lot of redeployment and sneaky movement Strategems. If you catch your opponent napping you can get in position pretty easily.

 

There's also the fact that just the threat of murdering characters can change your opponent's gameplan. If your opponent keeps characters back that he would normally be aggressive with, you've gained an advantage just by existing.

 

We're a more cerebral Chapter than a lot of others. We can put ourselves in position to win games by psyching the other player out and dictate how they play.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Claws and Effect

[Dracos]

Aegisvald, welcome to the Ravenspire. There are some very competitive armies out there that have HQ protection and you will need to plan on how to approach them differently than other armies but that’s okay

 

Master of Ambush and Strike from the Shadows are your friends in against those armies. Pick out the guardians T1 with shooting and/or Deep Strike T2 with Aggressors (or the new meta busting Assault Centurions) and then follow up with Eliminators, Ex Tenebris Phobos Lt and or Stalker Bolt Rifle/strat. By the end of T2 your opponents HQs should be gutted or in a position so remote it has limited effect rest of the game.

 

Again welcome and hey check out the Corax Command painting event. Grab a Primaris Lt and join the celebration of the Raven Guard “Codex”

[Aegisvald]

Most knights that you encounter will be characters so there is that.  A unit of stalker intersessors can with a stratagem target characters along with scouts wiht sniper rifles.  The general focus of the faction is to mess with your opponent during your deployment.  You want stuff that will deploy a castle midfield and hold that point from the enemey while your elite units etc push up and remove harder targets while your snipers etc deny them use of auras and command models.

 

Anyone know the name of the stratagem they mentioned that lets Intercessors target characters? I just got the codexes and there is a lot to wrap my tiny brain around.

[ShinyRhino]

 

 

Most knights that you encounter will be characters so there is that. A unit of stalker intersessors can with a stratagem target characters along with scouts wiht sniper rifles. The general focus of the faction is to mess with your opponent during your deployment. You want stuff that will deploy a castle midfield and hold that point from the enemey while your elite units etc push up and remove harder targets while your snipers etc deny them use of auras and command models.

Anyone know the name of the stratagem they mentioned that lets Intercessors target characters? I just got the codexes and there is a lot to wrap my tiny brain around.

Target Sighted. Only works for Intercessors with Stalker Bolt Rifles.

[Aegisvald]

One more question. So the tactical doctrine is needed for our main ability but I see most of the units that benefit from it use either heavy weapons (snipers) or want to be in combat. It seems like a bit of anti-synergy. What should I be doing to get the most out of the tactical doctrine?

 

Thank you for all the help. I am still buying the army so I would like to make good choices. Currently I have the Shadowspear box only and I plan to buy Stalker Intercessors. I'm looking at eliminators and from there I have no idea. 

[MajorNese]

It doesn't really matter that those weapons are Heavy/Meele and not Rapid Fire or Assault.

 

The doctrine only helps with 1 additional point of AP. Typically, all "good" characters will have an invul, making AP obsolete after a certain number.

A captain (or named equivalent) usually has 2+ or 3+ armour and 4+ or 5+ invul. AP-2 (which most snipers have by default) is enough to decrease the save to the invul, or close to it.

 

Thereby, the RG bonus is better - it means more shots hit, it means more shots wound, and it triggers certain abilities earlier, like the MW on 6+ for snipers turning to 5+.

Weapons become better against every toughness type (even Eliminators against T3 guard characters will wound better by 1), and that's especially effective against targets they were not intended against, like S4 bolters wounding T8 twice as much (5+ instead of 6).

 

So basically, any weapon that can target characters will work in the tac doctrine, even if they are heavy/meele.

"Weak" snipers like the MC Instigator will work better by wounding easier.

Heavy weapons like the Eliminators' get the same hit chance when moving, by the bonus compensating the movement penalty. They usually have enough AP, and still wound better.

CC weapons become more reliable at inflicting wounds on their target, and have better chances taking down the target before it can strike back or fall back.

Take anything that can reach characters by any means, and it will work better in tac doctrine.

 

 

As for unit recommendations, maximum Eliminators with bolt sniper rifle are advisable. I was actually able to swap spare Suppressors for Eliminators with local IH/UM players, that was a damn lot cheaper than the multipart ones. A phobos captain and a (phobos?) lieutenant with Ex Tenebris (conversion) are go-to elements too.

 

Anything with assault weaponry that can reach the enemy in turn 2 with a lot of shots is great too - autobolt intercessors (you can modify pushfits with spare autobolt magazines from the multipart box) and bolter Inceptors (cheap, fast, resilient, a lot of firepower) come to mind, you can get both cheap in one of the smaller starter boxes (Know no Fear?!?) if you trade the DG stuff, that's amazing value and the kind of stuff you need to fill out the army.

Shrike is great if you go for RG rules (and not successor mix-and-match Chapter Tactics), he synergizes perfectly with Inceptors to create pressure.

Edited October 14, 2019 by MajorNese

[Aegisvald]

Thank you, This was similar to my thoughts on the matter. I just thought I might be missing something due to my lack of experience. Your help is very appreciated.

[Dracos]

A lot of good people have been sharing good ideas since the release. Please join in any of the tactical threads that have been started and share your ideas. I’m going to look up who made it after this post but a “new” poster in the forum here has really turned me around on the Phobos Captain due to his flexibility taking Relics that tailor to different opponents.