What if RG had a slightly modified "Super Doctrine"...

[L30n1d4s]

Instead of adding +1 to Hit and to Wound against Characters, what if their rule was modified to give them +1 to Hit and to Wound versus enemy Characters and any enemy units within 3" of an enemy Character. To compensate for this very significant buff, in part at least, RG's tactic would not apply to any Titanic models.

 

The idea behind this is three-fold:

 

1) Make the RG tactic more universally useful and less niche. By making it also apply to units within 3" of Characters, you would make many more units in your opponent's army threatened by this (or force him to spread units away from Characters and so get less use out of their buffs), either way making the RG much more dangerous.

 

2) Fluff-wise, this would represent the RG carrying out carefully planned surgical strikes/ambushes not only against Characters, but also against their bodyguards, advisors, lieutenants, entourage, etc. as well as any units in their immediate vicinity/personal command.

 

3) Gameplay-wise, this would make the RG much more of the "glass cannon" (or glass lightning claw ;) ) that they are supposed to be in the fluff, either annihilating commanders and all nearby units with devastating ambushes or forcing the commanders to isolate themselves from their troops, in turn destroying their ability to support their forces.

 

This would make it so shooting weapons besides Sniper Rifles benefited from their tactic, but also would not make RG the super "anti-Knight" army, which I think was not the original intent of their Doctrine/fluff.

Edited October 3, 2019 by L30n1d4s

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Cool idea in theory, but in practice it just ends up being a "bookkeeping" rule by design - meaning it creates a negative annoyance to the enemy to be vigilant in maintaining a 3" no-go-zone. While GW isn't the best rules writing team out there, from my experience, it is apparent they try to avoid rules that create negative relationships (its why the -1 to Hit army-wide buffs are going away, slowly).

 

For me I wish the rule was just written as +1 to Hit/+1 to Wound regardless of Doctrine, rather than tied to tactical. The super-trait is already restrictive enough, and from a fluff perspective there is no reason why snipers on T1 shouldn't be performing to their full ability.

[Claws and Effect]

 

For me I wish the rule was just written as +1 to Hit/+1 to Wound regardless of Doctrine, rather than tied to tactical. The super-trait is already restrictive enough, and from a fluff perspective there is no reason why snipers on T1 shouldn't be performing to their full ability.

I'm good with not being able to murder all my opponents characters until turn 2.

 

If we had that all the time it would honestly be a little broken. If we got first turn we could slaughter all the opposing characters before they even get to do anything. Fluffy, yes. But we would be very not fun to play against, and I don't want that.

[Gederas]

For me I wish the rule was just written as +1 to Hit/+1 to Wound regardless of Doctrine, rather than tied to tactical. The super-trait is already restrictive enough, and from a fluff perspective there is no reason why snipers on T1 shouldn't be performing to their full ability.

I'm good with not being able to murder all my opponents characters until turn 2.

 

If we had that all the time it would honestly be a little broken. If we got first turn we could slaughter all the opposing characters before they even get to do anything. Fluffy, yes. But we would be very not fun to play against, and I don't want that.

Yeah, I'd rather NOT my mate's Raven Guard Primaris wounding all of my Custodes on 4s (or 2s in the case of the Power Fist sergeants) thank you very much. It was already annoying that a nearly-dead squad was able to kill a FULL-WOUND SHIELD CAPTAIN in one combat phase, I'd rather not have it work on all my models.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Gederas

[Ishagu]

I've had a few games against RG. They are great, especially if they go first.

 

I'm not sure they need a super doctrine. They are a trixy army with amazing board control that can deliver units into optimum ranges.

 

I think they are better than Ultras and WS, personally.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Ishagu

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

 

For me I wish the rule was just written as +1 to Hit/+1 to Wound regardless of Doctrine, rather than tied to tactical. The super-trait is already restrictive enough, and from a fluff perspective there is no reason why snipers on T1 shouldn't be performing to their full ability.

I'm good with not being able to murder all my opponents characters until turn 2.

 

If we had that all the time it would honestly be a little broken. If we got first turn we could slaughter all the opposing characters before they even get to do anything. Fluffy, yes. But we would be very not fun to play against, and I don't want that.

Yeah, I'd rather NOT my mate's Raven Guard Primaris wounding all of my Custodes on 4s (or 2s in the case of the Power Fist sergeants) thank you very much. It was already annoying that a nearly-dead squad was able to kill a FULL-WOUND SHIELD CAPTAIN in one combat phase, I'd rather not have it work on all my models.

 

 

All of your Custodes are characters? I wasn't arguing to remove the character bit, just the restriction to tactical doctrine.

 

+1 to Hit/Wound on T1 doesn't mean you murder all your opponents characters. It's a decent buff but its by no means that polarizing that having it active in all 3 doctrines would be broken.

[Gederas]

For me I wish the rule was just written as +1 to Hit/+1 to Wound regardless of Doctrine, rather than tied to tactical. The super-trait is already restrictive enough, and from a fluff perspective there is no reason why snipers on T1 shouldn't be performing to their full ability.

I'm good with not being able to murder all my opponents characters until turn 2.

 

If we had that all the time it would honestly be a little broken. If we got first turn we could slaughter all the opposing characters before they even get to do anything. Fluffy, yes. But we would be very not fun to play against, and I don't want that.

Yeah, I'd rather NOT my mate's Raven Guard Primaris wounding all of my Custodes on 4s (or 2s in the case of the Power Fist sergeants) thank you very much. It was already annoying that a nearly-dead squad was able to kill a FULL-WOUND SHIELD CAPTAIN in one combat phase, I'd rather not have it work on all my models.

All of your Custodes are characters? I wasn't arguing to remove the character bit, just the restriction to tactical doctrine.

 

+1 to Hit/Wound on T1 doesn't mean you murder all your opponents characters. It's a decent buff but its by no means that polarizing that having it active in all 3 doctrines would be broken.

No, but you left out the "to Characters" when you said "+1 to Hit/+1 to Wound". :P

 

I had two characters in that list, and he was still able to wound on 2s on the Shield-Captain on Bike. Bbecause the Doctrine doesn't have caveats, so the Leviathan Dreadnought was still able to wound him on 2s despite having no melee weapons when I charged it.....

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

 

No, but you left out the "to Characters" when you said "+1 to Hit/+1 to Wound".

 

I had two characters in that list, and he was still able to wound on 2s on the Shield-Captain on Bike. Bbecause the Doctrine doesn't have caveats, so the Leviathan Dreadnought was still able to wound him on 2s despite having no melee weapons when I charged it.....

 

 

Apologies, I made the assumption that it would be obvious I wasn't arguing to have the super-doctrine just give the entire army +1 to Hit/Wound against all targets, all the time.

 

In regards to the second point - You charged a shield captain into a ranged-weapon Leviathan - that is Strength 8 - and because its 3 attacks wounded on 2s instead of 3s (with No AP), that seems powerful? That's like less than a 3% increase in damage potential - lol.

[Gederas]

 

No, but you left out the "to Characters" when you said "+1 to Hit/+1 to Wound".

 

I had two characters in that list, and he was still able to wound on 2s on the Shield-Captain on Bike. Bbecause the Doctrine doesn't have caveats, so the Leviathan Dreadnought was still able to wound him on 2s despite having no melee weapons when I charged it.....

Apologies, I made the assumption that it would be obvious I wasn't arguing to have the super-doctrine just give the entire army +1 to Hit/Wound against all targets, all the time.

 

In regards to the second point - You charged a shield captain into a ranged-weapon Leviathan - that is Strength 8 - and because its 3 attacks wounded on 2s instead of 3s (with No AP), that seems powerful? That's like less than a 3% increase in damage potential - lol.

I mean, it's all I had left seeing as how the Leviathan was able to chew through six of my nine Custodian Guard AND A TELEMON (which it's wounding in FIVES, well aside from the Hunter-Killer Missiles) by itself.  You have to make due with what your tools are. And unfortunately, the new Marines broke mine :lol:

Edited October 3, 2019 by Gederas

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

 

I mean, it's all I had left seeing as how the Leviathan was able to chew through six of my nine Custodian Guard AND A TELEMON (which it's wounding in FIVES, well aside from the Hunter-Killer Missiles) by itself.  You have to make due with what your tools are. And unfortunately, the new Marines broke mine

 

On on this day, Kaphorn Trasyr once again distinguished himself, even in his penumbral years. A Shadow Captain in life, and a continued consummate killer in eternal service.

 

(Yes, I used the RG Name Generator in the Supplement for this)