Let's talk about GW's recent wording with successors

[Marshal Rohr]

EDIT: I should have prefaced this with, I'm playing a super fluffy non competitive list that is nothing but primaris infantry (infiltrators, intercessors, reivers, inceptors, suppressors, hellblasters, eliminators, and a bunch of characters) and I have no intention of power gaming, I play for fun not to win

 

Ok how about my current situation, I want to play either Crimson or Imperial fists (I like how their tactics work even without any kind of crazy doctrine buff) but I do not like painting yellow and I dislike the Crimson Fists general scheme, I can play a DiY chapter but it locks me out of 2 things Special Characters (not that I planned to use them) AND i cant use the crimson fist chapter tactic because it's not a first founding chapter so Inheritors doesnt give me access. So now what are my options?

 

1. paint MY models that I paid for in a color scheme that I dont like just to get access to a specific trait that I think I'll enjoy

 

2. Paint my models however I want and be force to play with either custom tactics or only have access to the IF tactic through inheritors.

 

3. Paint my models however I like and just say they're crimson/imperial fists so I get to use that tactic the way I want

 

 

Why can I not pick option 3 and am forced to pick either 1 or 2, just because some pictures and paragraphs of LORE say so?

There’s a fourth option there you didn’t mention. Find a yellow scheme that easily reproducible across a whole army and play as Imperial Fists. You could do a grey seer basecoat, rattle can army painter yellow, light wetbrush of yriel with a medium layer brush, and then an oil wash. Come back the next day after the oil wash dries and block out the black sections easy enough. Edited October 11, 2019 by Marshal Rohr

[Marshal van Trapp]

There’s a fourth option there you didn’t mention. Find a yellow scheme that easily reproducible across a whole army and play as Imperial Fists. You could do a grey seer basecoat, rattle can army painter yellow, light wetbrush of yriel with a medium layer brush, and then an oil wash. Come back the next day after the oil wash dries and block out the black sections easy enough.

Nope that's part of option 1 (painting my models in a scheme I dont like) I dont like painting yellow because I dont like yellow marines

 

I mean, not to be rude, but this whole game revolves around "you must use specific models to use specific rules". To play Iron Hands I'll still have to use Space Marine models, so no matter how badass that Carnifex looks, I can't call it a Dreadnought, even if I bought it.

So where can I find the ultramarine intercessors on the web store? Or perhaps the White Scar Redemptor Dreadnought? Or the DIY captain model? Of that's right marines are GENERIC and the paint scheme dictates their rules not the models huh Edited October 11, 2019 by Marshal van Trapp

[Marshal Rohr]

 

There’s a fourth option there you didn’t mention. Find a yellow scheme that easily reproducible across a whole army and play as Imperial Fists. You could do a grey seer basecoat, rattle can army painter yellow, light wetbrush of yriel with a medium layer brush, and then an oil wash. Come back the next day after the oil wash dries and block out the black sections easy enough.

Nope that's part of option 1 (painting my models in a scheme I dont like) I dont like painting yellow because I dont like yellow marines

 

I mean, not to be rude, but this whole game revolves around "you must use specific models to use specific rules". To play Iron Hands I'll still have to use Space Marine models, so no matter how badass that Carnifex looks, I can't call it a Dreadnought, even if I bought it.

So where can I find the ultramarine intercessors on the web store? Or perhaps the White Scar Redemptor Dreadnought? Or the DIY captain model? Of that's right marines are GENERIC and the paint scheme dictates their rules not the models huh

 

 

Then you can play an Imperial Fist Successor with Inheritors and just use relics to make your own characters. Perfect fit!

[Marshal van Trapp]

Then you can play an Imperial Fist Successor with Inheritors and just use relics to make your own characters. Perfect fit!

Unless I want to use the CF chapter tactic...

[Lemondish]

 

Then you can play an Imperial Fist Successor with Inheritors and just use relics to make your own characters. Perfect fit!

Unless I want to use the CF chapter tactic...

Inheritors includes No Matter the Odds as an option.

[Marshal van Trapp]

 

 

Then you can play an Imperial Fist Successor with Inheritors and just use relics to make your own characters. Perfect fit!

Unless I want to use the CF chapter tactic...

Inheritors includes No Matter the Odds as an option.

Where:

[Mandragola]

I think the rules have been clarified, which is useful.

 

On the fluff side of things, the consensus seems to be that if your guys are painted a specific scheme, most of us would choose to play with those rules. My Crimson Fists will only play as Crimson Fists and my Taranis knights will only be Taranis... though I have painted the spare armour plates I got from my Styrix in Krast colours.

 

People who create home brew chapters can do whatever they want, in my book, including playing as one of the official chapters.

 

I emailed warhammer world and the guy who replied said this was fine to do even in their tournaments. He then sent me a picture of some of his own ultramarine reivers painted in camouflage that are featured in July’s white dwarf.

 

I think the rules have been clarified, which is useful.

 

On the fluff side of things, the consensus seems to be that if your guys are painted a specific scheme, most of us would choose to play with those rules. My Crimson Fists will only play as Crimson Fists and my Taranis knights will only be Taranis... though I have painted the spare armour plates I got from my Styrix in Krast colours.

 

People who create home brew chapters can do whatever they want, in my book, including playing as one of the official chapters.

 

I emailed warhammer world and the guy who replied said this was fine to do even in their tournaments. He then sent me a picture of some of his own ultramarine reivers painted in camouflage that are featured in July’s white dwarf. They look great.

 

I’d share the image but it’s probably subject to copyright, irritatingly. Check it out though.

[Lord Blackwood]

Amusingly enough  my color scheme came from running my guys as Scouring Era Imperial Fists -> Black Templars  in the HH  

Since I  too hate painting yellow , even the yellow I have painted on  more than 50 thousand points of marines and marine vehicles. 

Now I just have a bunch of marines who are supposedly black with construction yellow as their secondary color. 

Ive run them as Imperial Fists , Iron Hands , and Black Templars on different occasions.  Never had an issue with anyone , mostly cause all my stuff is painted. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Lord Blackwood

[Lemondish]

 

 

 

Then you can play an Imperial Fist Successor with Inheritors and just use relics to make your own characters. Perfect fit!

Unless I want to use the CF chapter tactic...

Inheritors includes No Matter the Odds as an option.

Where:

Oh, I was wrong. I apologize.

 

Looks like you're going to need to play Crimson Fists from a rules perspective. Sorry!

[Trevak Dal]

The lamest excuse I’ve heard so far is that it’s okay coz I’m uber competitive.

Well there is something to be said about an honest try-hard.

 

I don't care how awesome Ironhands are, I don't like their lore lopping off hands and other body parts becoming more and more cyberized when they could presumably regrow the limbs/anatomy, but I got beef with like every chapter and legions background. And there are people who love them and that's awesome.

 

I kinda wish I had that.

Edited October 12, 2019 by Trevak Dal

[Son of Sacrifice]

When has a space marine ever regrown a hand?

[Trevak Dal]

When has a space marine ever regrown a hand?

[Marshal Rohr]

They do have the ability to regrow body parts. They mention in the Iron Hands Heresy lore they choose bionics because it gets them back in the fight faster and their so good at the maintenance and creation of bionics it’s not really a bad option.

[Spinsanity]

No matter how much your Ultramarines Successor likes tanks, it will never be as expert as a chapter descended from the Iron Hands and that is okay.

I’m sure the Praetors of Orpheus would disagree, if we were to consider their 5th ed fluff...

 

“The technological lore of the Praetors of Orpheus is second only to that of the Adeptus Mechanicus.”

[Iron Father Ferrum]

 

No matter how much your Ultramarines Successor likes tanks, it will never be as expert as a chapter descended from the Iron Hands and that is okay.

I’m sure the Praetors of Orpheus would disagree, if we were to consider their 5th ed fluff...

 

“The technological lore of the Praetors of Orpheus is second only to that of the Adeptus Mechanicus.”

...written from an unreliable, in-universe narrator's POV.

[Frostbit3]

Bottom line for me is I don’t care what rules you play as, IF your models are fully painted. I would so very much rather play against a beautifully painted blood angel army counts as space wolves, than play against a bare plastic space wolf army. Bare plastic kills immersion way more than a “incorrect” color scheme.

Are we all really so easily confused that we can’t possibly remember what army we are playing against?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It’s pathetic to do something like play BA as SW especially if only to be more competitive.

[Frostbit3]

You’d rather play a gray plastic army?

[Hellebras]

You’d rather play a gray plastic army?

Strangely enough, I think I would. If nothing else, I've played using unpainted models often enough that I don't think I have a right to complain. Using a painted and themed Blood Angels army as Space Wolves (to continue the example) would bug me more, and I'm not sure I can completely put the reasons why into words. It's implying both a commitment to the army and everything about it, but also saying that the player is willing to toss that aside for momentary advantage. At least with the unpainted plastic they're saying they don't care about any of it, or that they're new and maybe wanted to try the game before sinking hours upon hours of work into it.

 

Maybe it's just that I'm not interested in competitive play anyway, so narrative elements like that hold more inherent importance than ephemeral rules. There's no way I'll be playing my Fists as Iron Hands or whatever the flavor of the week is; the first Space Marines codex I picked up and played as Fists was the 5th edition one, and I've stuck with them through both strong rules and mediocre rules. Anything else would feel wrong to me. But an un-themed army is in many ways a blank slate; if I were doing a DIY chapter I'd probably feel more freedom, though under the current successor rules I'd probably just pick whichever tactics I feel fit best and keep calling them a successor of whichever Chapter I'd picked when putting together the background. So I realize that my perspective is simply different than what someone else may feel, and their view is valid too.

[Frostbit3]

I think you are assuming it is for competitive advantage and not style of play or for fun.

I know what you Mean about it being a visceral thing more something that is easy to put into words.

It’s been talked to death, but I think it’s interesting that because I painted my army in a black and yellow quartered scheme it seems like most would be comfortable with me playing it as about anything I like, but if I painted it blue, suddenly there is a visceral reaction if I’m not ultramarines.

I don’t think anyone is wrong in this as it’s all preference. My preference is that you care for your models enough to paint them then I’m happy.

[Marshal Rohr]

If you painted it Blue and had the Ultramarine symbol on the shoulder*

[Marshal van Trapp]

If you painted it blue with shoulder trim in a proper company color, and a WHITE ultramarines symbol on the left shoulder pad, and proper company markings on the right shoulder pad, also the eye lenses need to be red, and the bolter has to be metallic with a black casing...

 

If you're going to rules lawyer a paint scheme, at least do it right, if your army isnt painted to exactly the standards as GW you cant even play it!

[Lord_Caerolion]

If you painted it blue with shoulder trim in a proper company color, and a WHITE ultramarines symbol on the left shoulder pad, and proper company markings on the right shoulder pad, also the eye lenses need to be red, and the bolter has to be metallic with a black casing...

 

If you're going to rules lawyer a paint scheme, at least do it right, if your army isnt painted to exactly the standards as GW you cant even play it!

 

Red Era Ultramarines disagree with you.

[Marshal van Trapp]

Idk about you but I play in the dark imperium time period exclusively so I require the exact paint schemes as outlined in the 8th edition space marine codex! /s

[Iron Father Ferrum]

There's a famous Supreme Court ruling where the justice writing the opinion said "I know it when I see it."

 

That's how I feel about paint schemes. Even if there's no Eye of Isha anywhere, black & bone Eldar are obviously Ulthwé. Medium-blue Space Marines are not unique to the Ultramarines...but if there are agemos visible, again, I know it when I see it.