How Much CP is *Just Right*

[Schlitzaf]

Let me put is this way Loyal 32 is 180 points, 3 Hunters are 185. Marine HQ’s are not taxes. There are reasons to take loyal 32, CP is not one of them. Unless you make poor list decisions elsewhere

[jaxom]

If I were thinking about executing CP and stratagems from the ground up then here's what I'd look at:

1. Initial CP pool - the amount an army starts with based on list building factors.
2. CP generation - the amount of CP an army generates at the beginning of a game turn based on HQs and faction rules.
3. Stratagem gating - the amount of CP an army can spend in a single turn based on HQs and faction rules.

Ideally, I would want the three factors to come together to aid the feel of a faction. Custodes, for example, wouldn't have a lot to start with for a turn one blitz, but would generate a steady amount each turn and be able to spend it quickly ('each Custodes is a hero-warrior, etc but they don't really fight together'). Guard would start with a lot, but wouldn't really be able to generate much if any as the game goes on without a Creed. 

 

This would take a lot of iterating and play testing to get right.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

Let me put is this way Loyal 32 is 180 points, 3 Hunters are 185. Marine HQ’s are not taxes. There are reasons to take loyal 32, CP is not one of them. Unless you make poor list decisions elsewhere

 

This is incorrect. Cheap CP are the one and only reason you'd take the Loyal 32. But you take them as part of a greater list to feed that CP into something else. That is why they are called a CP battery, and it can be extremely useful. But even more damning is how you can build an entire guard brigade, fill it full of useful tanks and support units, take 6 troupe choices for holding ground, then still bolt a knight onto the side of that and channel the 15 brigade CP into that knight. You then have a fully functioning guard army, all that guard CP, then a giant war machine to pump it in to for devastating results. That was the most effective battery making the rounds last time I bothered to pay attention. But 180 points worth of Loyal 32 and a super heavy squad of knights wasn't an uncommon list either.

 

Anyway. Point being that not all armies can pull off a double battalion with any grace. My Khorne double battalion requires that I spend at minimum 322 points for the second to have two bloodmasters and 3 squads of bloodletters with no upgrades, and I play an army that starves for CP. If I were wanting to be more competitive I'd bolt on chaos guardsman in a heartbeat to shift those points elsewhere. After all, 3 squads of  10 bloodletters are worse in every way to 3 squads of guard in terms of what I can reasonably do with them, and I can always use another daemon prince worth of points to play with. Even at the most favorable, assuming I can pick only useful HQs that aren't a tax, it'd be a difference of 210 to 180, and the 180 get 2 characters and ranged weapons with almost equal survivability.

Edited October 13, 2019 by Marshal Valkenhayn

[Schlitzaf]

No, you never should take Loyal 32 for CP. Loyal 32 is taken for board control. Because “Move Move Move”. The Brigade Battery was the actual competitive “Loyal 32” which is entirely seperate but instrinictly related discussuin. The premise of Loyal 32 and Rusty 17 is its the cheapest or most efficient method of CP in the game. But that is not the case.

 

Sense you should be taking a minimum 3 Cpts as a Marine competitively, your only paying for either tacticals or Scouts which are now the slightly more expensive, same, or cheaper than a Loyal 32. In those cases it’s not for CP but other reasons.

 

Also, take the disloyal 32 if it’s all about CP, R&H have rules and are about same cost or you can take the disloyal servant. Which is not that much more either.

[Panzer]

No, you take it for both. Primarily it was taken for the CP, the added board control was something people figured out later that made that kind of detachment just even better. If you think it wasn't taken for the CP you are pretty delusional.

[Slasher956]

when a nid /GSC tournament player goes out of his way to build a cult32* purely for the CP i'd say that yeah..... loyal 32 is a CP battery first & foremost

 

*broodbrothers rules

[Schlitzaf]

No, you take it for both. Primarily it was taken for the CP, the added board control was something people figured out later that made that kind of detachment just even better. If you think it wasn't taken for the CP you are pretty delusional.

It’s board control then CP. Espacially in Marines. Once again the CP cost is net same for marines. What you see taken for primary CP is the IG Brigade. 600-900ish points. Which is not something I frankly have much of a problem with.