INKS Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Hi everyone. A long time ago I had and still have a raven wing force partially painted to be Angels of Redemption. I haven't played or collected since 3rd-4th edition. I know we are now in 8th edition (where does the time go). I am already waiting on the new codex to arrive so that I see where my current force stands. If you have any other recommendations for me that would be awesome. I have to dig my old models out but I think I had 3 squads of 5 bikes, with a heavy bike each and 1 squad of Land speeders. But I might be a little off. I never did finish my leader or HQ for the squad, I don't know how many points I am really aiming for right now but anything helps. thanks Inks Edit: So I broke out my models and this is what I have. Squad 2: 1 attack bike with multi melta 1 Land Speeder with Heavy Bolter 1 Sgt with Power sword 2 bikes with Meltas 3 regular bikes Squad 3: 1 Attack Bike with MM 1 LS with Hvy Bolter 1 sgt with power fist 1 bike with flamer 1 bike with melta 2 reg bikes 3 unbuilt and unpainted landspeeders. I need an HQ which I'll do last, how does this look for a start though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtariOnzo Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Multimeltas should put you in good stead. Ravenwing are the strongest of our forces, so you’re entering 8th with the foundations of a solid army. Look at picking up some Ravenwing Knights and a Talonmaster to lead your forces INKS 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 It looks pretty good. Ravenwing is pretty much our best group of units in the current codex, so going heavy on them is not at all a bad idea. As it was suggesed, for HQ choices you should probably look into a Talonmaster. INKS 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INKS Posted October 8, 2019 Author Share Posted October 8, 2019 @UtariOnzo: Thanks for the reply. I'll look into those knights and talon master, I was doing some reading and Knights seem to be super strong. I do have some landspeeders but it seems like no one is taking them. Are they took weak? @Berzul: Thanks for the reply. I'll get that talonmaster going. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Knights are great, but they are serious bullet magnets. Invest in a Darkshroud, if you plan on bringing the knights. The -1 to be hit aura of the shroud is almost a must, in any list, and an absolute must in a list that has knights. INKS and Helias_Tancred 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INKS Posted October 8, 2019 Author Share Posted October 8, 2019 @Berzul: I see, thanks I'll take that into consideration. Getting my HQ squared away will be my first mission. I'll work on that Talonmaster :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 @UtariOnzo: Thanks for the reply. I'll look into those knights and talon master, I was doing some reading and Knights seem to be super strong. I do have some landspeeders but it seems like no one is taking them. Are they took weak? @Berzul: Thanks for the reply. I'll get that talonmaster going. The reason you don't see anyone take them is because they were garbage a long time ago, and most players don't reevaluate their decisions with changing circumstances after they have written off a unit. The truth is that speeders have been getting steadily better every edition. And now in this edition speeders are amazing. If you going with a small force like you listed above, I'd recommend not taking the Talonmaster. And instead taking Sableclaw. Ignoring cover and re-rolling wound rolls of one are great, as is picking your warlord trait and getting a relic. However, the re-roll all hits will result in more damage than ignoring cover and re-rolling wound rolls of 1. Additionally Sableclaw comes with a free relic, and you can still put the relic you would have put on Talonmaster on a different model. Same goes for the warlord trait. Ultimately you'll want to have both Sableclaw and Talonmaster in your collection, but in lower point games, taking both handicaps you because their points are better spent on rank and file units. For example 1 Talonmaster is more points than 2 HB / AC speeders... the 2 speeders have the same damage output, and twice the wounds. And that doesn't even touch on what those points you saved will get you. You can also change the comparison to 2 HB / TML speeders, which are equal cost to the Talonmaster, with significantly higher damage output than the Talonmaster. So I'd build one of the speeders as Sableclaw / Talonmaster, and build the other 2 speeders to squadron with your first speeder. You'll want to build all of your speeders with 2 guns. Take your pick, there are solid arguments for all of them. That said my Squadrons with Assault Cannons generally do more damage than my Squadron with TML. More shots equals more successful hits, more successful hits equals more damage. But I always take that TML squadron because when they are rolling hot, tanks just melt. RW speeder squadrons are different from all other SM speeder squadrons, because they get to take up to 5 instead of limited to 3. Speeder squadrons with 3+ speeders get +4 inches to their movement which is the equivalent to advancing with them every turn, yet still being able to shoot. Viewed another way that means you are getting a free CP every turn that you would have otherwise spent on Speed of the Raven to allow that speeder squadron to advance and shoot. I tend to take squadrons of 4 because it means my opponent has to deal 12 wounds to the unit before they slow down. So unless you are planning on running 6 speeders, you are probably better off running up to 5 as a single squadron. With the 6th speeder switch to 2 squadrons of 3. INKS, Helias_Tancred and Dosjetka 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INKS Posted October 8, 2019 Author Share Posted October 8, 2019 @ValourousHeart: Wow thanks for all the information. I am still waiting on the new codex to arrive, so I have no idea what the options looks like or what the current squads are worth. I started to build this back in 2010 and the rules were a lot different then. I will certainly take all this into consideration. Plan right now is to build and paint the 3 speeders I have sitting around. And then work on an HQ. From there I'll look at expanding things out but that should keep my busy for quite a while. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 A lot of things have changed since the DA codex was released. Be sure to grab all of the relevant FAQ's from GW's website here. You will also want to pick up a copy of Chapter Approved 2019 when it drops. CA2019 will have updated points and rules for DA. They will probably also have updated power levels and options pulled from Codex Space Marines. Since CA2019 is going to drop in the next 6-8 weeks, I'd hold off on picking up CA2018 or CA2017. Depending on what type of hobbyist you are you will either not need them at all because CA2019 reprinted the only info you cared about, or you will want both because certain sections were only printed in one of the earlier books. Also depending on what all is covered in CA2019, you may also be inclined to pick up a copy of codex space marines. C:SM is most likely not needed, but we don't know when DA are getting their 2.0 codex, and as such C:SM is a nice packaging of all of the new and updated units currently missing from C:DA. INKS and Helias_Tancred 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INKS Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 @ValourousHeart: Awesome, thanks. I bookmarked the FAQ's for the updated rules currently. CA2019 isn't out yet but I hear that maybe December? I have the DA codex coming (2017 one). I also have the main Rule Book coming. I'll look into getting the newest C:SM as well. I don't intended to be playing matches real soon (harder for me to get around), as such I can wait a while. Just as a little aside. I don't get to play much even back in the day. I tend to build armies that are legal to play with in case I get to opportunity to play, but for me it's more about having the models and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Well you will be glad to hear that "legal to play" got a revised definition in 8th edition. Everything works if you want to have fun. But some things work better depending upon what you are facing. Be sure to consider all of the detachment options, including the ones on page 244 of the BRB. Take this opportunity to build the list you always wanted to try, no matter how crazy it sounds. It is going to work better than you expect and you'll have a blast too. I really like land speeders, something about the image of gunships zipping around building hunting down rebels is appealing to me. Each time I revised my RW list over the editions I would cut a few bikes and try to fit in a few more speeders. When we got to 8th edition and I saw the outrider detachment I decided to go all out and just build a list that had my full collection of speeders at the core. And it turned out to be the most fun I've had yet. It might also be that I had got back into painting and finally was able to field a fully painted 2000 point list. G8Keeper, Helias_Tancred and INKS 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INKS Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 @ValourousHeart: Well done, they look awesome! I'll take that under advisement on detachments. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INKS Posted October 12, 2019 Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 Is it worth it to take a STD Bearer and or an Apothecary in your command squad? If so at what point value game do these unit become useful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtariOnzo Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 I’d say standards and/or apothecaries are worth it for 1500+ games where the extra shot on death, or saving some wounds, can come in handy. They’re effectively independent characters now though so you can get them individually and put them in the squads you want, great for supporting black knight units, but with individual pricing they’re not so great at being part of a full command squad (it gets expensive real quick with a champion, standard bearer and apothecary to pay for separately at 100+ points each) INKS 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INKS Posted October 12, 2019 Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 I forgot to ask about a Techmarine as well, I am guessing the same situation? It seems like I really need to get my hands on some black knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtariOnzo Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Yeah, techmarine on a bike is there as just ablative wounds for a vehicle you want to make sure gets a few extra chances to live. I’d say treat the techmarine as an expensive upgrade, with a kickback of an extra character model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INKS Posted October 12, 2019 Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 Thanks I appreciate the advice. Working on the two landspeeders now and then I need to address my HQ choice and after that black knights I guess. They seem super popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtariOnzo Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 They’re one of our more efficient units, raining plasma death on enemies. They’re also not bad in combat! Well worth a pick up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 It comes down to the cost of the character(s) vs total army points. Characters are force multipliers, so if you have a bunch of characters and no force for them to multiply, they are going to under perform. Sableclaw,Talonmaster and a Dark Talon are all solid units that really add a lot to the army. However they are a combined total of about 600 points. That is a large percentage of your 1000 point force, but a much smaller percentage of your 2000 point force. Remember what I said before about how the Talonmaster cost more points than 2 HB/AC speeders. Well the RW Apothecary cost 2.5 Black Knights. And the RW Ancient cost 2.9 Black Knights. Both of them work better when paired with a larger squad of Black Knights. Consider the numbers points wise. 8 BK = 3 BK + 1 Apoth + 1 Ancient I'm pretty sure there is a slight favoring for the unit with 3 extra guys. INKS 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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