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Anti armor

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#1
WickedJester1013

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Mainly TSons(but daemons as well) what are our answers for tanks and various other armored units?

#2
WarriorFish

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Are you after a particular type of AT? As a shooting army long ranged AT is better for Sons, but unfortunately there's not a great deal of choice. Helbrutes and Predators with lascannons will do good work, and Contemptors if you have access to them. You'll need a few though as one or two might fall victim to your opponent's AT before they can do their work.

 

Daemon engines can add some combat prowess, but probably more effective in a counter-assault role so it depends on the type of armour your opponents field. When in doubt, go for ranged AT :tu:


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#3
Prot

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Smite spam, mortal wounds. Some sprinkles of real anti tank to assist... a lascannon, a helbrute, etc. Tactics like bumping vehicles is huge. And finally the good ol' Daemon Prince in close combat.


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#4
WickedJester1013

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General advice for anti armor. My buddy is finally getting fire prisms and was curious what the best answer was for them

#5
SickSix

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What do you think about a Spearhead detachment to bring in Havocs?

#6
WickedJester1013

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I like the idea because the new havocs look good, but you kinda have to get a lot of heavy when you do that because you have to bring 2 more heavy supports and another hq right? What would be the points on 3 havoc squads and a reroll hq?

#7
WickedJester1013

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Do you lose anything taking the fiends or drakes in a chaos spear head over tSons? I plan on always taking 1 fiend or drake and will try to take two. Would also love any reason the get a lord discordant and make him look like a son of Magnus

#8
SickSix

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I like the idea because the new havocs look good, but you kinda have to get a lot of heavy when you do that because you have to bring 2 more heavy supports and another hq right? What would be the points on 3 havoc squads and a reroll hq?


So a Spearhead with Sorcerer, two min size Havoc squads and a defiled is 550 points. That is what I have on one of my theoretical Thousand Sons lists.

#9
GreaterChickenofTzeentch

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Do you lose anything taking the fiends or drakes in a chaos spear head over tSons? I plan on always taking 1 fiend or drake and will try to take two. Would also love any reason the get a lord discordant and make him look like a son of Magnus

Yes, you lose the ability to heal them with Temporal Manipulation or buff them with Glamour of Tzeentch or Weaver of Fates. If the Chaos Spearhead is Tzeentch you can still use Flickering Flames, Prescience, etc.



#10
CrystalSeer

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I like the idea because the new havocs look good, but you kinda have to get a lot of heavy when you do that because you have to bring 2 more heavy supports and another hq right? What would be the points on 3 havoc squads and a reroll hq?

 

You can do this with the specialist detachment from Vigilus. Gives you the ability to re-roll 1's to wound, and a strategem to allow you to fire in your opponents first turn if you don't go first.



#11
Quixus

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What do you think about a Spearhead detachment to bring in Havocs?

Good idea but not a (pure) Thousand Sons army anymore. It is a Tzeentch soup then.



#12
WarriorFish

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Indeed, it may be a solution but not a Thousand Sons one confused.gif A sign of the difficulty unfortunately.

 

I'm off to WHW tomorrow, I think I'll be picking up a Contemptor to add to my Sons. Lascannons and a fist for double duty on what Sons are lacking in! He can play big brother to the Helbrute or two I'll likely get for more AT.

 

Of course the problem here is that all of my AT eggs are in AT priority baskets... ermm.gif


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#13
Prot

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Still this is a good idea imho. It presents a target to take heat off of other units, yet can't be ignored. 

 

I often bounce between Dual Las arms for a Contemptor, or my old go to which is fists, with Soul burner's embedded in the fists!  (Mortal wounds makes me feel like my Thousand Sons dread are shooting magic bullets.)

 

The nice thing about the lesser used Decimator is these are heal-able I believe and are more interactive with the Thousand Sons psychics. 


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#14
Quixus

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I often bounce between Dual Las arms for a Contemptor, or my old go to which is fists, with Soul burner's embedded in the fists!  (Mortal wounds makes me feel like my Thousand Sons dread are shooting magic bullets.)

Do you get enough shots out of the dual las? four does not seem nearly enough.

 

How does the fist/soulburner Contemptor perform? I am thinking about using two Contemptors one with claws and soulburners, another with dual butcher cannons.



#15
Sonoftherubric21

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I use Forgefiends, Predators with Las sponsons (Pred autocannon is solid, but Twin-Las is also good), and Contemptors with Butcher cannons, sometimes skyfires en-masse to plink wounds off weaker vehicles, and the ever-present Daemon Prince. I also tend to take Maulers and Defilers and if they get to the enemy can wreck a vehicle pretty quick for what they bring.... assuming they get to the opponent of course! 

 

If it needs to be *RANGED* anti armor specifically I don't disagree with the Twin-Las on the Contemptors and I have gotten solid mileage from Predators though I know it may very depending on Meta. Base Helbrutes with Twin Las / Rocket isn't bad either and relatively cheap points wise. 

 

Funny story, I actually like using Rubricae in a mild anti-tank roll when applicable. Vets of the Long War + Inferno Shells on a large unit of Rubrics I have destroyed a good number of (Note: NOT T8!) vehicles that way. Works fairly well if you are getting double-tap from my personal experience though it is not ideal obviously!  Scarab drop also works a charm with that tactic especially given Bolter Discipline.

 

As a rule of thumb I saw it quoted here and I tend to agree with this when talking about 8th edition 40k: "1 equals none. 2 equals one. 3 equals some" when talking about a given unit. One anti-tank choice is not going to cut it. For frame of reference my standard list for 2k always includes 3-4 solid anti-tank pulled from Engines, Walkers (both FW and regular variety) and Tanks. 


Edited by Sonoftherubric21, 16 October 2019 - 04:10 PM.


#16
The Blood Raven

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I found dual butcher cannons of limited utility in an anti-armor role due to their -1 ap allowing most Vehicle saves to work.

#17
WarriorFish

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The hitting power of Helbrutes and Contemptors is something I prefer not to miss out on so I like a DCCW :) More so on the latter thanks to the ability to gobble up wounds in combat biggrin.png For Sons who are lacking in combat power a strong counter assault element will be useful I reckon, especially against vehicles. Plus I'd be concerned that a mortis pattern will be painting a huge target on it more than normal, as well as be a bit boring tongue.png

 

Butcher Cannons are decent, I consider them a versatile "medium" AT weapon as they do good work against infantry also but I would spring for the lascannons if you can for that extra hitting power. Given the general capability of Sons (such as the VotLW trick) more so.


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#18
GreaterChickenofTzeentch

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I wouldn't look askance at Vindicators now either. D6 shots per pull of the trigger now, cheap for a T8 chassis and they can be upgunned with Havoc Launchers, etc. They can also be healed with Temporal Manipulation and use Gaze of Fate for rerolls on shot count for one tank per turn. Linebreaker Bombardment really isn't necessary with the shot count now but the threat of it can affect target priority. You can also use Smite and Warpflame Gargoyles to clear enemy tarpits off of them so they can't be tied up reliably.

 

Also, since our range for Death Hex is 18 inches, it pairs fairly well with Vindis and an opponent will certainly start to sweat when it goes off. Mutaliths are another cool threat at the same range to synergize a bit and split enemy targeting.


Edited by GreaterChickenofTzeentch, 16 October 2019 - 10:42 PM.


#19
GreaterChickenofTzeentch

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One more thing: If you're willing to shell out the bucks, a Land Raider Achilles can be downright horrifying for TSons. Ranged mortal wounds plus a boatload of Multi-Melta shots and a 4++, which can of course be complemented by Weaver of Fates and Glamour of Tzeentch. Once it gets hungry, hit it with Diabolic Strength or Prescience and Warp Time it into enemy lines to wreak havoc. It even has a 6 man transport capacity for a min Rubric squad and a character. smile.png

 

It helps that they were one of the first Legions that the Imperial Fists gave them to during the Crusade.


Edited by GreaterChickenofTzeentch, 16 October 2019 - 10:47 PM.

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#20
MegaVolt87

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Get a devastation battery with 12 lascannons using the Tzeench renegades from Vigilus ablaze. 


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#21
GreaterChickenofTzeentch

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Get a devastation battery with 12 lascannons using the Tzeench renegades from Vigilus ablaze. 

Yeah, if you're willing to go Scourged, that can put a serious crimp in someone's plans, especially with the reroll ability and the stratagem where you can murder deep strikers within 12 in. You could possibly even shoot the same enemy unit twice during their turn before they get to fire if they do something like Veil of Darkness/Gate of Infinity/Drop Pod. LOL.

 

Tzeentch Obliterators with Flickering Flames from a TS Daemon Prince can be hilarious too, especially from that Renegade Chapter.

 

Mmmmm.....Tzeentch Soup. Always serve flaming hot.....and do your self a favor by not looking in the mirror afterward. smile.png


Edited by GreaterChickenofTzeentch, 16 October 2019 - 11:08 PM.

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