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Armour of Shadows plus Stealth Adept.


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7 replies to this topic

#1
Claws and Effect

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Rules interaction question.

If I give a character the Raven Guard relic Armour of Shadows it states that unmodified hit rolls of 1, 2, and 3 always fail.

The Stealth Adept Warlord Trait applies a -1 to hit said character.

Would those 2 things interact so that character could not be hit on less than a natural 5?

The Armour of Shadows essentially makes it so you need a 4 to hit him. Would the -1 applied by Stealth Adept mean you'd need to roll a 5 to get the necessary 4?

It says unmodified hit rolls of 1, 2, or 3 always fail. It doesn't say that modified rolls cannot also fail.

Thoughts?

#2
Dr_Ruminahui

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Basically, the combination gives 2 ways of failing:

 

1.  The warlord is missed on a unmodified hit roll of 1, 2 or 3 due to Stealth Adept; and

2.  The warlord is missed if the modified roll is less than the firer's BS, as that's the way shooting works in 40K.

 

So, no, the combination doesn't mean you need to roll a five to get a 4 - that's a modifed roll, and the Stealth Adept trait doesn't care about modified rolls, only unmodified ones.

 

For example, let's say you have a unit with BS 3+ firing at the warlord.  You roll the dice.

 

First, you remove all dice that show a 1, 2 or 3 on them due to Stealth Adept.

 

Then, for each of the remaining dice, you apply all modifiers and determine if the roll meets or exceeds the firer's BS.  So, in this case, the firer would need a roll of 4 to hit (BS 3+ with a -1 modifier).

 

 

So, at least with BS 3+ and no other modifiers to hit, both rules basically have the same result.  Against BS 2+, Stealth Adept would cause misses that Armour of Shadows would not, while with BS 4+ or 5+, Armour of Shadows would cause misses that Stealth Adept would not.


Edited by Dr_Ruminahui, 09 October 2019 - 03:28 PM.


#3
dode74

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A BS3+ attack on a Armour of Shadows/Stealth Adept character which rolls a 4 would actually still be a hit.  Why?  Because AoS requires an unmodified 3, and the result is a modified 3, which is the required number to hit.  Considering the -1 to hit from the Chapter Tactic as well: a 4 with -2 to hit would miss (result is 2), but a 5 would hit (result is a modified 3).



#4
Claws and Effect

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Okay, so I could take a different Warlord trait and not adversely affect my character's survivability.

Good to know.

#5
McElMcNinja

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What about something like the Puscleaver that wounds on a 2+, which would take precedents?

#6
Dr_Ruminahui

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Well, given that the question is to hit, and a puscleaver is to wound, all 1, 2, 3s would miss, then anything 2+ would wound. tongue.png

 

That said, I think you are referring to a hypothetical as how the rules would interact if they affected the same roll - I think the eldar dark reaper exarch has something like that, but I don't have access to the codex.  Given that such would depend on the exact wording of each power, there isn't much point going into it without that wording in front of us.


Edited by Dr_Ruminahui, 09 October 2019 - 11:13 PM.


#7
Slasher956

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 Q: If a model whose attacks always hit on a specific roll (such as a Vindicare Assassin or Dark Reaper’s ranged attacks) targets a unit that can only be hit on a specific roll (such as a unit under the effects of the Pathfinders Stratagem), which rule takes precedent – the attacking model’s or the target unit’s? A: The attacking model’s ability takes precedence

 

from the MRB FAQ page 8

 

so a Dark Reaper will hit on 3s against AoS



#8
McElMcNinja

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Well, given that the question is to hit, and a puscleaver is to wound, all 1, 2, 3s would miss, then anything 2+ would wound. tongue.png

That said, I think you are referring to a hypothetical as how the rules would interact if they affected the same roll - I think the eldar dark reaper exarch has something like that, but I don't have access to the codex. Given that such would depend on the exact wording of each power, there isn't much point going into it without that wording in front of us.


I was thinking about the stratagem that you don't wound on rolls of 1-3, sorry about that.




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