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Posted 09 October 2019 - 08:53 PM
Posted 10 October 2019 - 10:04 AM
How well does a mechanized list work. Lots of bikes, some tanks/trucks/grinders, the ridge runner as the core of the army with maybe guard ally tanks supported by mass bodies for shooting or swarming melee?
I´m actually in the process of building / painting a mechanized force due to rule of cool, but my understanding of 40k is: there sems to be no reason to run mechanized GSC.
The question is: what do you try to achieve with a mechanized list?
The vehicles of GSC aren´t really fast (deepstrike shortens the distance much "faster"), aren´t really tough (more bodies seems to be the better option to increase ressilence) and do not offer good shooting (besides Leman Russes, but that hitting on 4+... I´m not too sure).
In addition, vehicles don´t benefit from Cult creeds and all Astra Militarum vehicles don´t even benefit from GSC synergies such as Jackal Alphus +1 to hit.
And last: why would you like to include high Toughness / multiwound units in an army that otherwise is immune to anti tank weaponry?
Posted 11 October 2019 - 03:21 AM
I didn’t read you last point till I posted, but I can say I never though of that angle before.
Posted 11 October 2019 - 08:12 PM
Genestealer Cults are, at its core, an infantry horde army with a focus on meelee and deployment shenanigans.
With 8ed rules, we are faced with a few problems:
- Aura abilities do not work while in vehicles.
- brood brother vehicles are better in an AM detachment.
- disembarking before movement means your transports have to end movement close to the enemy before the unit(s) inside can get out and charge next turn.
- vehicles do not benefit from <cult>s, e.g <twisted helix> doesn't make vehicles stronger.
Now, with that out of the way, let's look at our vehicles and possible synergies:
First thing first - all our vehicles (taken from the GSC odex) have the cult ambush ability, which can be easy to glance over.
We've got some exclusive cult vehicles, which only GSC can use:
- Goliath Truck: open topped transport with autocannons - our basic truck can e.g. provide speed and ablative armour to a squad of neophytes wielding heavy weapons.
- Goliath Rockgrinder: a bit weird in that it's a wheeled vehicle which wants to get into meelee, the rockgrinder can provide some heavy firepower in addition. Can f.e. carry a squad of acolytes into meelee, soaking overwatch for the squad.
- Achilles Ridgerunner: as the name indicates, a fast but squishy vehicle providing heavy weapons fire. Can e.g. sit on the backline with a Jackal Alphus, preferably in cover. Or flank around and hit the enemy from the back/side. Tbh - competes w/Atalan Jackals for the slot.
We also got access to 'brood brother' vehicles, which are *ahem* borrowed from the local astra militarum:
- Cult Chimera: lacking open topped and being slightly more resilient, the chimera is a fire platform bringing 2 weapons like e.g. a multilaser and heavy bolter. Saw some use last edition when it could transport genestealers, lost a lot of use when it lost that ability. Still a lot of dakka.
- Cult Scout/Armoured Sentinel: a heavy weapons team on legs.
- Cult Leman Russ: slow, but rather resilient and provides quite the punch.
All of our brood brother vehicles, while plugging holes in our rooster, suffer a bit from not being proper <cult> vehicles and being better when used in an astra militarum detachment. Astra militarum also gives access to f.e. the other leman russ variants, hydras, wyverns, basilisks, manticores, deathstrikes, hellhounds and valkyries.
A typical fully mechanised GSC list could be e.g. a core of neophytes in trucks, supported by rockgrinders, ridgerunners, atalan jackals and a few cult leman russ.
Having a partly mechanised list supported by ambushing acolytes & aberrants would be more effective though.
Some neophytes or brood brothers to sit on objectives wouldn't hurt too.
Such a list could benefit from certainy synergies:
- Primus: Starting transported, the primus is not on the battlefield, meaning his ability triggers once he leaves the transport. While providing ablative armour, the transport capacity of the transport means the size of the squad riding with the primus is limited, unlike when ambushing. His ability also applies to the transport when it triggers.
- Jackal Alphus: Long ranged sniper providing a to-hit bonus to long ranged vehicles should be pretty obvious tbh. Could also keep up with e.g. flanking ridgerunners and/or jackals.
- Patriarch: Takes up 5 slots in a transport vehicle. Having his own personal overwatch eating sacrificial transport means our bowling ball could skip the 'no overwatch' warlord trait and relic and would be free to take something else instead. And if you do go ths rute, you know which of your vehicles will be a prime target for the enemy.
- Sanctus: firing the sniper rifle out of an open topped transport makes him less vulnerable to enemy snipers. Then again, the same goes for all other characters and he'd be more usefull standing still.
- Magus: can provide protection from psionic attacks to the vehicles, but must footslog to do so and is not fast enough when going on foot.
Nearly forgot - bringing in Leman Russ tanks via Astra Militarum has the advantage that they can be taken as tank commanders as HQ units with better ballistic skill.
Edited by Exilyth, 13 October 2019 - 05:14 AM.
- brother_b likes this
WH40k: Astra Militarum: ~2500 Pts, Space Marines: ~2500 Pts, GSC: ~1000 Pts
"Reduce, recycle, reuse - don't waste your sprues!"
Posted 12 October 2019 - 01:36 AM
That's some good stuff.
Posted 16 October 2019 - 04:18 PM
Things I thought bout:
10 men Neophytes squad with 2 mining lasers in Goliath truck, Bladed Cog. Regarding the FAQ for Codex:Orks it seems to be the case, that embarked units in oppen topped vehicles kep their own shooty rules, ie Bladed Cog Neophytes do not recieve the -1 to hit modifier when moving and shooting heavy weapons.
Now add a Jackal Alphus. He marks a target and all friendly units within 6" get a +1 to hit modifier, which by the rules the Neophytes inside the truck will also get due to oppen topped rule.
=> You´ll get a well protected squad that moves fast and shoots at BS 3+ against certain targets. Sounds nice.
A 10 men Acolythes squad bearing 4 demolition charges in a truck with cache of demolition charges. With 1 cp spend you can throw 5d6 S8 AP-3 D3 damage bombs at your opponent. Then charge. If the vehicle will be destroyed, use Rigged to Blow stratagem to let it explode in the opposing ranks. This might work best on already damaged vehicles therefore Devoted Crew stratagem could be handy.
Something similar can be done with a Rockgrinder.
- Fajita Fan likes this
Posted 19 October 2019 - 06:00 PM
Agree with most of what has been said - Astra type vehicles tend to be better in a Brood Brothers AM detachment.
Bikers best application is all demo charges + Extra Explosives (+Drive By Demolitions) - I frequently field an Outrider Detachment (Rusted Claw creed):
2x 5 Atalan Jackals (all demo bombs & shotgun)
-The bikes usually go into Underground Ambush to use Lying in Wait to appear close and use their bombs to kill something important. A key factor being having appropriate units to clear enemy screens turn 1 (mortar squads, or AM-BB artillery). Occasionally (depending on the deployment situation) - I put them in ambush blips if im expecting enemy scout units close to my zone. The smaller bike squads can easily be kept out of LOS till its your turn to strike.
The Wolfquads arent bad with Incinerators. If using Rusted Claw they can make use of the Mining Lasers (no movement penalty to shooting).
Ive actually come to like Ridgerunners w/ Heavy Mining Laser + Flare Launchers - good value for points, D3 lascannon shots, +6 FNP and being cult can benefit from the Jackal Alphus' +1 to hit buff. Moving is still penalized but they're very small vehicles you can easily conceal in good firing spots. Very fast too if they need to relocate and their stat line doesnt degrade if wounded.
Dont overlook Armoured Sentinels - very cheap and tough. Easy route to getting a Brigade detachment in. They wont kill much but they're unlikely to draw fire and can be used to delay enemy units. Cheaper guns are best due to BS4 (Multi-laser or Autocannon). Also easy to keep out of LOS when solo. A sneaky one with a HFlamer is always fun too.
Rockgrinders arent bad if youre including other vehicles - you just cant expect to hurl them towards a shooty enemy army and survive. Use terrain to expose them to minimal fire. That said - great counter punch unit. The Incinerator pairs well with the grinder. Good candidate for the Nexos strategic blip relocation to intercept aggressive enemy units.
Goliath trucks I dont get a lot of use out of - primarily because anything thats worth transporting in GSC is generally better off ambushing from underground. There is the old suicide bomb truck trick for laughs but the Atalan Jackals can do it much cheaper.
GSC are undoubtedly best in infantry horde format but some vehicles can work.
Posted 21 October 2019 - 09:29 AM
I´m actually going to try a more mechanized army apporach as I want to spice it up a bit. Still plenty of ambushing units but I tihnk it will come to a surpise for some people to meet more mech then just bodies.
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