SyNidus Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 So this is the project log of me rebuilding my Raven Guard. I’ll be posting pictures of what i’ve assembled so far, but here is the list i’m building towards. I’d be happy for any feedback and thoughts you guys might have. Balanced Raven Guard 2000 Battalion: Shrike - 130 Captain - Jump Pack, AoS, TH/SS, Imperium’s Sword, Master of Ambush - 143 Infiltrators - 5 man - 110 Infiltrators - 5 man - 110 Intercessors - 10 man - Bolt rifles, TH - 186 - 679 Spearhead: Phobos Cap - Ex Tenebris/Oppressor’s End - 99 Eliminators - 3 man - 3 Snipers, Sgt w Korvidari Bolts - 72 Eliminators - 3 man - 3 Snipers - 72 Eliminators - 3 man - 3 Snipers - 72 Dev Centurions - 3 man - Gravcannons, Hr. Bolters - 210 - 525 Vanguard: Phobos Lib - Env. Darkness, Shadowstep - 101 Invictor - Incendium - 131 Invictor - Incendium - 131 Aggressors - 6 man - Sgt w Master-crafted Gauntlets - 222 Vanguard Vets - 8 man - 4 TH/SS, 4 DCS - 211 - 796 Total: 2000 Starting CPs: 10 - 4 = 6 Deployment: Vanguard Vets, Intercessors and Grav Cents will be deployed in reserve Infiltrators, Invictors, Phobos Librarian and Phobos Captain will be deployed forward and mid field. Smash Captain with Aggressors will use master of ambush to deploy forward and somewhere in position to do some damage turn 1. If i get first turn, i’ll be more aggressive with where i place them. Otherwise they will be hidden. Shrike will be deployed either centrally or in reserve to come down with the others. Eliminators will hold the back field. Between the three squads i should be able to keep deepstrikers out of my deployment zone. What do you guys think? duz_, Shadow Captain Vyper and Dracos 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Looks great! I look forward to seeing the progress! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) I like the general feel of the list. Its diverse but still pretty densely packed. For input.. I feel like you will want a TFC in there to round it off. Not quite mandatory but between that and the elims you would have a solid oolos presence. Plus it babysits your DZ from deep strikers which for this list I think might be a bit light on screening due to the forward presence. VV could really use more shields otherwise they might force bad decisions onto those hammers. Keeps them kicking longer for almost no cost. Invictors consider ironhail AC instead of the incendiums on at least one chassis. Worse when you get the deployment you want obviously. But these would be for when you don't. Keeping them credible as a threat will draw fire from your allstar elims which is important otherwise that korvidari bolt serg is the first to drop from opposing oolos weaponry. Plus they add some light AT. On that note keep an eye on the serg upgrades. I'd reserve both these for game time decisions personally. My gut says not often worth it but super cool. Anyway track their performance vs CP needed in game and see.. Where to find points if you did take any/some of these suggestions: The smash captain honestly feels less needed with shrike around and the 40 pt hammer cost now. But maybe he's a mainstay for you Idk.. I've been back and forth on what I want from him myself. I feel like VV fill that roll so theres some overlap there one way or the other. Which is also good considering our AT largely comes from CQC. At the least I would trim some investment from him. Warlord + 2 cp is a juicy target and hefty considering the CP you'll start the game with. Plus he will die. Otherwise I would consider cutting a couple bodies from the intercessors. Wont significantly impact their performance. Hammers are ace on these guys I dig it. Lastly I feel like one unit of infiltrators is enough (minimum that is) to protect that key position considering you have the phobos captain. These could become intercessors or even scouts (snipers) to again draw heat from your elims. Also frees up the elims to double as AT vs certain opponents or double down on assassinations. Anyway just some friendly ideas. Look forward to seeing this play out. Edited October 16, 2019 by Brom MKIV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyNidus Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 Thanks for the feedback Brom! That’s a great breakdown. For the infiltrators, i’ll be keeping 2 squads because money is tight so getting a squad of sniper scouts is not possible at the moment. Plus i don’t really want the scouts spoiling the aesthetics of the army. The issue i have with removing the smash captain is that i’ll need 1 more hq to make up the battalion requirements. I’m considering whether to use the burning blade or or teeth of terra to replace his thunderhammer. His role would have to change if that’s the case. Or i don’t have a jump pack captain entirely. I’ll swap him out for a primaris LT to carry ex tenebris and i just have my phobos captain become warlord and carry oppressor’s end. I totally agree with the autocannons on the invictors. I think that would give them more flexibility. Maybe something like this list: Balanced 2000 V4 Battalion: Shrike - 130 Primaris Lt - Ex Tenebris - 70 Infiltrators - 5 man - 110 Infiltrators - 5 man - 110 Intercessors - 8 man - Bolt rifles, TH - 152 - 572 Spearhead: Phobos Cap - Oppressor’s End - Master of Ambush, Echo of Ravenspire - 99 Eliminators - 3 man - 3 Snipers - 72 Eliminators - 3 man - 3 Snipers - 72 Eliminators - 3 man - 3 Snipers - 72 Dev Centurions - 3 man - Gravcannons, Hr. Bolters - 210 TFC - 92 - 617 Vanguard: Phobos Lib - Env. Darkness, Shadowstep - 101 Invictor - Autocannon - 136 Invictor - Autocannon - 136 Aggressors - 6 man - 222 Vanguard Vets - 8 man - 4 TH/SS, 2 CS/SS, 2 DCS - 215 810 Total: 1999 Starting CPs: 10 - 2 = 8 Brom MKIV 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) Fair enough on the scouts, I think they bring vulnerability anyway and infiltrators area denial is strong. One option you could consider is a MC fist I recently posted about. This is a perfect example of when it's a good alternative to a hammer captain. Anyway this is an excellent list from my perspective. I'm struggling to get to something I like that looks as good and includes the units I want. Very well done. Edited October 17, 2019 by Brom MKIV Dracos and SyNidus 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyNidus Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) That’s a great suggestion. Also i realised i’ve overcosted my vanguard vets. So i’ve got more space. I’ve changed the Phobos Cap for a Phobos Lt and replaced the normal LT with a captain.This is the list now:Balanced 2000 V4Battalion:Shrike - Shadowmaster (Hero of The Chapter) - 130Cap - JP, MCPFist/SS - Master of Ambush, Imperium’s Sword - 112Infiltrators - 5 man - 110Infiltrators - 5 man - 110Intercessors - 7 man - Bolt rifles, TH - 135- 597 Spearhead:Phobos Lt - Ex Tenebris - 81Eliminators - 3 man - 3 Snipers - 72Eliminators - 3 man - 3 Snipers - 72Eliminators - 3 man - 3 Snipers - 72Dev Centurions - 3 man - Gravcannons, Hr. Bolters - 210TFC - 92- 599 Vanguard:Phobos Lib - Env. Darkness, Shadowstep - 101Invictor - Autocannon - 136Invictor - Autocannon - 136Aggressors - 6 man - 222Vanguard Vets - 8 man - 4 TH, 4 CS/SS - 208803 Total: 1999Starting CPs: 10 - 3 = 7 Also, the Master-Crafted Power Fist gives me a great idea for modelling my jump captain. The idea is that his power fist is called the Fist of Shadows. Using kiavahran tech, the Raven Guard have an artificer powerfist that doesn't exude the usual lightning-based disruption field, but rather weaponises dark matter so that it looks like the wielder's fist is wreathed in flowing shadows. I'll be using the Reiver LT and green stuff to model his right hand surrounded in flowing wisps of shadows. Edited October 17, 2019 by SyNidus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Dammit thats awesome! Mine is just a blood angels PF on a phobos armoured dude. I built him yersterday but yours sound cooler man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Wait what! I only came here for the pics! Definitely a lack off... <_< Looks like if you can split a few Shadowspear boxes (if they're still around?) you're off to a good start :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyNidus Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 Ask and you shall receive!This is my rendition of Shrike. Just gave him a helmet, and i didn't like him balancing on the wall like some rooster. Overall I really love the new Shrike model! And here is Shrike with the first batch of my army What do you guys think? Brom MKIV, Shadow Captain Vyper, Hiroitchi and 4 others 7 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Awesome! :woot: Now paint!! :lol: Hiroitchi 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiroitchi Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Can’t wait to see you slap some paint on these guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinalCookie Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Every time I see someone post Primaris Shrike with the headswap and not standing on the concrete wall, I have to fight myself not to buy the model. Excellent conversion work! What basing scheme are you going to go with for this force? Urban? As to your list, it looks very solid. It seems as though you have an answer for just about everything. One question though about the Grav-Centurions; you mentioned they will be held in reserve. I'm assuming the infiltration strat is what you are going for? Is there any reason you would choose that over SftS? I would think making sure they can shoot on first turn while the Dev doctrine is active would be a nice boost to the output of the cannons. I've used them myself to great effect in the 3 games I've gotten in since the new codex, albeit with the Master of Ambush WT to put them right up in people's faces. They absolutely delete everything I've pointed them at. duz_ 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyNidus Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) Every time I see someone post Primaris Shrike with the headswap and not standing on the concrete wall, I have to fight myself not to buy the model. Excellent conversion work! What basing scheme are you going to go with for this force? Urban? As to your list, it looks very solid. It seems as though you have an answer for just about everything. One question though about the Grav-Centurions; you mentioned they will be held in reserve. I'm assuming the infiltration strat is what you are going for? Is there any reason you would choose that over SftS? I would think making sure they can shoot on first turn while the Dev doctrine is active would be a nice boost to the output of the cannons. I've used them myself to great effect in the 3 games I've gotten in since the new codex, albeit with the Master of Ambush WT to put them right up in people's faces. They absolutely delete everything I've pointed them at. Finalcookie, you should totally grab Shrike. He's a gorgeous model, especially once you get the beaky off his belt and onto his neck. As for basing, i haven't thought about it yet. I'm thinking of going with martian red base to contrast all the black. The Grav-centurions, i was thinking of using SftS over infiltrate because:- 1) i don't think they need the extra AP. 2) They are protected from enemy fire, so they can come in at full strength + surgical strikes would be active. 3) i can use turn 1 to get rid of screens so that i can make sure they can come in and be in range for the target that I need them to target. I've got enough on the field to hold the ground and force my opponent to deal with myriad threats. These guys are the magic bullet, the insurance policy to make sure that even turn 2 when the opponent thinks they've got a chance, i can delete a problem unit and hopefully regain the initiative. After some thoughts and feedback, here is the latest version of my list. Also probably the most stable form. Balanced 2000 V4 Battalion: Shrike - Shadowmaster (Hero of The Chapter) - 130 Cap - JP, MCPFist/SS - Master of Ambush, Imperium’s Sword - 112 Infiltrators - 5 man - 110 Infiltrators - 5 man - 110 Intercessors - 7 man - Bolt rifles, PFist - 128 - 590 Spearhead: Phobos Lt - Ex Tenebris - 81 Eliminators - 3 man - 3 Snipers - 72 Eliminators - 3 man - 3 Snipers - 72 Eliminators - 3 man - 3 Snipers - 72 Dev Centurions - 3 man - Gravcannons, Hr. Bolters - 210 TFC - 92 - 599 Vanguard: Phobos Lib - Env. Darkness, Shadowstep - 101 Invictor - Autocannon - 136 Invictor - Autocannon - 136 Aggressors - 6 man - 222 Vanguard Vets - 8 man - 4 TH/SS, 4 CS/SS - 216 811 Total: 2000 Starting CPs: 10 - 3 = 7 Edited October 23, 2019 by SyNidus Shadow Captain Vyper 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 It's looking real tight SyN, good stuff. As you play more games with it, I look forward to your thoughts on the current build versus double battalion. Does 7 CP feel like enough? 3 Troops? That sort of thing. I imagine as you continue to play it against multiple opponents, you'll get a more meta feel for those sorts of things and your evaluation of them. If I could add anything at all to this list it would be a Thunderfire Cannon, simply for the double tapping half movement shenanigans, but I suppose that comes down to your local meta at the end of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyNidus Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 Hey Vyper, thanks for your feedback. I actually have a thunderfire cannon in there. I am worried about not having enough CPs, but i'm conflicted because I like the tools i have with this list vs a double battalion. We'll see how it works out. Anyway, slow progress because of RL work, but i've assembled my Phobos Captain and Phobos Librarian. Here's the picture! MithrilForge, Hiroitchi, thewarriorhunter and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Wow, im blind. TFC = my brain is dead. Looking good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 After some thoughts and feedback, here is the latest version of my list. Also probably the most stable form. Balanced 2000 V4 Battalion: Shrike - Shadowmaster (Hero of The Chapter) - 130 Cap - JP, MCPFist/SS - Master of Ambush, Imperium’s Sword - 112 Infiltrators - 5 man - 110 Infiltrators - 5 man - 110 Intercessors - 7 man - Bolt rifles, PFist - 128 - 590 Spearhead: Phobos Lt - Ex Tenebris - 81 Eliminators - 3 man - 3 Snipers - 72 Eliminators - 3 man - 3 Snipers - 72 Eliminators - 3 man - 3 Snipers - 72 Dev Centurions - 3 man - Gravcannons, Hr. Bolters - 210 TFC - 92 - 599 Vanguard: Phobos Lib - Env. Darkness, Shadowstep - 101 Invictor - Autocannon - 136 Invictor - Autocannon - 136 Aggressors - 6 man - 222 Vanguard Vets - 8 man - 4 TH/SS, 4 CS/SS - 216 811 Total: 2000 Starting CPs: 10 - 3 = 7 What are your thoughts on Scouts vs Infiltrators? Do you find you need to use the Infiltrators a lot? Would you consider 2x5 Scouts and 1x5 Infiltrators? (Or do you find the infiltrators much better?) Would you consider changing the Intercessor Bolt Rifles to Stalkers? With the ability (pricey though it may be) to nuke a hidden character, its a really strong option. Great for marines, too. I would consider losing at least one hammers and picking up 2 fists instead - have a nice spread of high S, low AP attacks. I think it's really strong, and if you were going first, i think the enemy is in for a hell of a time. Difficulties lie in how you can manage going second. I assume the centurians and the aggressors will be in reserve -maybe even with the VVs. Would love to hear how it plays. Long range support fire is missing, but mitigated by RG movement a little. I would STRONGLY consider a chaplain instead of the Phobos Lt. (sexy as Ex Tenebris is) - mainly because litany of Hate + shadowstep is a game changer for reserve play. SyNidus 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyNidus Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) Thanks Morti!I love your suggestion to swap some hammers for fists and the Lt for a chaplain. I'll have to figure out how to use the Chaplain though. With the phobos libby deploying mid-field, i'd either have to use infiltrate to give my Chappy a pre-game move, or make sure they are close enough so that i can move the chaplain up and launch him forward with shadowstep.Regarding Infiltrators vs Scouts, this choice is mostly aesthetic because i'm trying to at least make the army look primaris (all my non-primaris units will be using primaris units, except for the centurions). But I also do like the ability to screen out deepstrikers.The stalker bolters is something I was considering as well, but that would change the role to backfield camper. I was actually planning to use them as mid-late game reinforcements. Something that can wipe out a unit when they come in or at least charge in to steal an objective out from under the opponent's nose. And the 3 cps is kinda steep for my list. Balanced 2000 V5 Battalion: Shrike - Shadowmaster (Hero of The Chapter) - 130 Cap - JP, MCPFist/SS - Master of Ambush, Imperium’s Sword - 112 Infiltrators - 5 man - 110 Infiltrators - 5 man - 110 Intercessors - 7 man - Bolt rifles, PFist - 128 - 590 Spearhead: Chaplain - JP, Benediction of Fury, Canticles of Hate - 90 Eliminators - 3 man - 3 Snipers - 72 Eliminators - 3 man - 3 Snipers - 72 Eliminators - 3 man - 3 Snipers - 72 Dev Centurions - 3 man - Gravcannons, Hr. Bolters - 210 TFC - 92 - 608 Vanguard: Phobos Lib - Env. Darkness, Shadowstep - 101 Invictor - Autocannon - 136 Invictor - Autocannon - 136 Aggressors - 6 man - 222 Vanguard Vets - 8 man - 6 PF/SS, 4 CS/SS - 206 - 801 Total: 1999 Starting CPs: 10 - 3 = 7I'm still building the army, so i haven't had the chance to run it yet. All the synergies and tactics are just in my head and based on my experience from well over a year ago. Yeah, going second is actually something i'm trying to build/plan for. So if on the off-chance I get first turn, it'll be a boost rather than being a disadvantage when I go second. Edited December 2, 2019 by SyNidus duz_ and Dracos 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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