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Eldar in the 31st Millennium


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#1
Thyam

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So I’m spitballing ideas of running some Eldar Corsairs as Heresy-era Eldar.

One thing I want to know is whether the Aspect Shrines were running at that point?

Also, they had their ‘Lords according to Fulgrim but the Infinity Circuit was not created until the 33rd Millennium. For that logic then I imagine that most dead would be interred into Wraith constructs until then, in the same way as dreadnoughts.

If either of these are answerable that would be awesome.

Thanks

#2
Brother Tyler

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If they had Phoenix Lords (I'm assuming that's what "'Lords" means), then they had Aspect Warrior shrines.

 

However, the Eldar Corsairs and the Craftworlds are distinct entities. Are you running Craftworlds as Corsairs? Or are you doing something different?

 

Assuming you're using the Craftworld rules to represent Corsairs, then I don't think that worrying about the existence of the Aspect Warrior shrines or the existence (or non-existence) of the Infinity Circuit is even necessary. Aspect Warriors might simply represent more exotic Corsairs, and (perhaps) your force simply includes more wraith constructs than normal for some reason.


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#3
Thyam

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Sorry, when I meant ‘Lords I meant of the Wraith variety. As Eldrad’s bodyguard consisted of a Wraithlord during his meeting with Fulgrim.

But as the book has little else of the Eldar variety it’s hard to assume what was available.

#4
Karhedron

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This is a tricky one. The HH novels depict M31 Eldar as pretty much the same as M41 version despite things like the Infinity Circuit not being developed until M33. Also the Aspect Shrines must have spread extremely quickly after The Fall. Asurmen needed to train the first generation of Asurya, Ahra fell and turned on them. The various Pheonix Lords then travelled the webway, establishing Aspect Shrines as they went.

 

If you want fluff background, we have definitely seen Aspect Warriors in "Fulgrim". Howling Banshees were established on Ulthwe by the outbreak of the Heresy (~200 years post-Fall). The main question is what faction of Eldar you want to represent.


Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.

#5
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can anyone remember when the Eldar first started returning to the croneworlds to harvest the stones?

 

As without them there would be no wraithlords


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#6
Beren

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Wraith units inhabited by aeldari souls are definitely present in the Heresy era (see the Witch-Idol of Magc'Sithraal).

 

The fan interpretation of 30k eldar rules/fluff posted in http://www.bolterand...5-xenos-in-30k/  has aspect shrines as clearly present but being far more limited than in modern eldar craftworlds, as well as automaton wraiths being present.


Edited by Beren, 16 October 2019 - 05:26 PM.


#7
Trokair

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This is not strictly 30k but I always understood that the Eldar had Wraith Constructs during the War in Heaven. The 100 Swords that Vaul forged (well 99) were taken into battle against the C’tan by Wraith Constructs. Also Spirit Stones originate from the Isha if memory serves.



#8
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Wraith units inhabited by aeldari souls are definitely present in the Heresy era (see the Witch-Idol of Magc'Sithraal).

 

The fan interpretation of 30k eldar rules/fluff posted in http://www.bolterand...5-xenos-in-30k/  has aspect shrines as clearly present but being far more limited than in modern eldar craftworlds, as well as automaton wraiths being present.

I would be interested to see what a Burn Them All-minded Eldar army would be like.


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#9
simison

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This is not strictly 30k but I always understood that the Eldar had Wraith Constructs during the War in Heaven. The 100 Swords that Vaul forged (well 99) were taken into battle against the C’tan by Wraith Constructs. Also Spirit Stones originate from the Isha if memory serves.

 

Source?

 

As someone who has done some research, this is a particular headache of mine. Mostly because of *Fulgrim*. As someone else noted, the Eldar are treated as almost no difference to 40k Eldar, which doesn't make sense given there's only 200 years past the Fall and other sources giving contradicting information on level of technology. As someone noted, the Infinity Circuit isn't supposed to be around, until M33 and soulstones are a Fall side effect.

Yet, we have Wraith constructs running around without any explanation for how that's possible. 

As far as Aspect Shrines, Asurmen is confirmed to be the first and the originator. So, Dire Avengers are usually around with 200 years being enough time (probably) for them to have a presence on half of the Craftworlds. After Asurmen, Jain Zar is noted for being the most well-traveled Phoenix Lord. That would place the Howling Banshees as the second most accessible Aspect after the Dire Avengers. Everyone after these two are fair game. (Though one might make an argument the Scorpions should take the longest given the betrayal.)


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#10
Trokair

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This is not strictly 30k but I always understood that the Eldar had Wraith Constructs during the War in Heaven. The 100 Swords that Vaul forged (well 99) were taken into battle against the C’tan by Wraith Constructs. Also Spirit Stones originate from the Isha if memory serves.

 

Source?

 

3rd Edition codex I think or maybe a WD article. I will try to dig out my copies from back then at the weekend. I defiantly remember reading something long ago that made me think that it was referring to some form of early Wraitlords that fought for the elder against the necrons.



#11
Lord_Caerolion

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I think it may have been the Necron codex.


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#12
Beren

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It occurs to me that, if I remember Doom of Mymeara correctly, the Shadow Spectres shrine was associated with the Wraith constructs prior to their decline and that it's possible that their duties as such - whatever those may have been - were no longer required after the creation of the Infinity Circuit.

#13
Lord_Caerolion

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My personal interpretation is that Wraith technology has long been a thing for the Eldar before the Fall, but that their creation was singular, in that they had to be specifically chosen to have their soul kept, as we know there were both precursor Wraith constructs, and we know that soul-stones have long been a thing for the Eldar, as Eldar myth states that they were first created by Isha when Asuryan separated the Eldar from the Gods in the precursor to the first War in Heaven.

After the Fall, they probably started using the soul tech to rescue each Eldar, but they lacked the Infinity Circuit into which to deposit these rescued souls.


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#14
Karhedron

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This is not strictly 30k but I always understood that the Eldar had Wraith Constructs during the War in Heaven. The 100 Swords that Vaul forged (well 99) were taken into battle against the C’tan by Wraith Constructs. Also Spirit Stones originate from the Isha if memory serves.


You are mostly right but you are conflating 2 pieces of fluff slightly. White Dwarf 273 (UK edition) gives a lot of background to the War in Heaven from the Eldar's POV, albeit expressing it in mythical terms.

The 100 (or 99) swords that Vaul forged for Khaine were used in his battle against the Nightbringer. However they were wielded by mortal warriors (devotees of Khaine, they could perhaps be seen as the precursors of Exarchs). They fought in a perfect circle with the swords granting strength and endurance to the warriors wielding them. However the "fake" sword let them down. The warrior wielding it grew weary and its edge grew blunt. When he fell, the circle broke and the Nightbringer attacked.

The Wraithguard (and later Wraithlords) were created by Vaul and Morai Hag to fight against the Necrons allied to the Void Dragon. They were the most advanced of their kind and were all fitted with Lightning Fields that took a terrible toll on mortal Eldar fighting them. Morai Hag caught the souls of the dying Eldar in the first spirit stones and Vaul fashioned new bodies for them to fight on with that were far tougher, even than the Necrons they were facing. This was not the endgame however. These early Wraith units were designed to act as a bulwark for the Eldar while Vaul created weapons that could challenge the Void Dragon itself. These "Talismans of Vaul" (later named the Blackstone Fortresses by the Imperium) could channel huge amounts of Warp Energy. Individually they were destructive but when combined, they had the power the drive a star supernova. Vaul located the Void Dragon while it was feeding on a star to recharge itself and set out to do battle with it.
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Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.

#15
Karhedron

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As someone noted, the Infinity Circuit isn't supposed to be around, until M33 and soulstones are a Fall side effect.


Whilst the Infinity Circuit dates from M33 (according to the 6th edition Iyanden Codex), Soulstones predate the Fall. They are formed from areas of warp-realspace overlap and are crystalised warp energy. They can be harvested in small quantities from around webway gates. Also there were other areas of Warp/realspace overlap prior to the Fall. The Maelstrom is supposed to be older than the Eye of Terror I believe.

Presumably, most Eldar would not have bothered with Soulstones prior to the Fall as they would simply be reincarnated upon death. Coming back in a brand new body was probably far prefferable to a twilight existence as a Wraith. After the fall, I would guess that securing supplies of Soulstones probably became an overriding priority, necessitating the visits to the crone worlds to harvest them. I guess that "occupied" Waystones were stored and cared for prior to the development of the Infinity Circuit which allowed the departed souls a way to exist and interact together.
Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.

#16
Trokair

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Thanks Karhedron, what I remembered was all so long ago that I am not surprised that I mixed things up a little.



#17
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Loving all this. Definitely story time for me haha.


So *cough*.... Continue

#18
MegaVolt87

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Wasn't the point of the infinity circuit to have basically a closed  (server) soul network for dead eldar as they ran out of (SSD's) spirit stones for soul storage? I always thought as long as you had spirit stones, you could make constructs, as bonesingers seemed to always be a thing from the beginning. 


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#19
Lord_Caerolion

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That definitely seems to be the case. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if being in a Wraith-construct or spirit stone was regarded as a punishment before the Fall, instead of a death penalty. After all, it's not as much of a punishment if you have definitive proof that they just get a new body afterwards, presumably with the same memories. It's basically the Eldar version of those arcs in zombie stories where a prison gets used as a base of operations, so has to be refitted to have the proper facilities.

 

As an aside, Bonesingers aren't just tied to Wraith constructs, but rather wraithbone, and potentially psychoplastics in general.


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