Claws and Effect Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 As the title states. My plan for next year is to build and play the nastiest, tricksiest, sneaky beakiest Raven Guard list I can muster up and take a real stab at becoming a solid tournament player. Anything goes in this thread. List suggestions, relic/trait combos, strat usage, the optimal trajectory for a Fire Raptor to ensure it connects with my opponents nose. Anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluflash Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) Happy to help, but I do need at least a little framing on intent: Limited to RG specifically or successors as well?Preferred tournament format? Any general list traits preferred or excluded? E.g. Primaris only, heavy shooty, no FW, etc? Edited October 17, 2019 by Bluflash Archon_77 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 Happy to help, but I do need at least a little framing on intent: Limited to RG specifically or successors as well? Preferred tournament format? Any general list traits preferred or excluded? E.g. Primaris only, heavy shooty, no FW, etc? RG specifically. No preference on format, but ITC performance should be taken into account since it's the most prevalent. Heavy on Primaris, but not exclusively. I have FW stuff I'd like to include where it makes sense. Grav Levi, lascannon equipped Fire Raptor, Relic Contemptor with Kheres and fist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 I’ll add a couple questions. Preferred style of point gathering? Kill More Take More and have you thought about best ways to gather Secondary Points? For instance I prefer infantry and Take More. I can game plan for Taking but feel we aren’t suited for Kill More. Not that I won’t try mine you. As far as Secondaries ... I feel we need to try to use our deployment and movement abilities in tandem with the Efforts to Take More. For others it might mean vehicles, for me it’s infantry and all infantry because I want any heavy weapons overkill wasted as much as possible. Though I handicap myself with Primaris (and maybe Centurions but potatoe patatoe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluflash Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Kill more can be aided by knocking down a support character or two a turn :)But yeah, some framing helps.I've built my list around low-volume high quality shooting, deployment tricks, and ITC Secondary denial. One strategy to help develop is post your current list. That shows us where your head is at, and then a few hundred of us poke holes in your game plan. :) Brom MKIV 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 A few of the units/combos I've found spiciest, with obvious repeats from other threads, but consolidated for a list in no particular order. TLLC Mortis Contemptor(s). Always perform well. All trim and no points bloat. SftS Hellblasters. RF outside 12" intercept stratagems. Always get one full round of shooting as best they can. Turn two they arrive with surgical strikes and can slag things like character knights with no risk of overheat. SftS'ing a relic banner keeps them shooting for maximum action economy. False Flight prevents chump blocking. Probably the most dangerous combo we have. The other Version being Ambushing them. For /mydues/ I'm taking 20 of them to do both. Phobos Librarian with Shadowmaster and Spectral Blade. Can be hidden an d jump out or T1 assault something and slowly eat up a flank. Ghost weave+Transhuman makes it so you can't wound him on better than a 5+. Umbral form grants a 4++. Concealed+Infiltrators+Ravens Blade makes(If needed) sure he gets there. CP intensive but no joke. Could also add a regular Libby and Master of Ambush up null zone. Eliminators. Finding it hard to not bring them, especially in ITC. In objective heavy games they can hide out of LoS and still shoot. If against a squishy character heavy army will milk secondary points. Can even bracket thing in a pinch with the +1 the sarge grants if needed for mortals. More so on character knights. Phobos Cap with Korvidari bolts. Have yet to use him with Marksmen Honours specifically yet but obliviously just good. Can hide out of LoS to deny warlord and score points while always being relevant. Trifold path him to get Echos to shunt if needed to avoid things like BA DC pregame moves (But does he die instantly after turn 3+?). Plus he can never be charged out of deepstrike save for Banshees thanks to his scrambler. Infiltrators. Expensive but blocked Da Jump many times. Smoke grenades stack with Unseen for -2. Marksman bolters can help fish for bracketing or final wounds on big things. Scouts have been a staple for me sine I started. My second purchase ever was these guys. Troops that synergize with Surgical Strikes or early game objective grabbers to get an early lead in ITC. Been using Deadly Prize to make the midfield more dangerous. Storm Talon. Another unit that is efficient. More than once I put it in a corner and then zoomed it next to a fast character and sniped them. Usually dies; one of those units that work better in triples. Devastators(10man) with Lascannons next to an Apothecary with the Fearless aura WLT. If they're in cover they're hard to shift. Transhuman for bonus points. Noxnoctis22 and Brom MKIV 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 I don't have a set list, but here's some of the stuff that tends to find it's way into most of my games: - Phobos Captain - Shrike - Phobos Libby - Jump Libby w/sword and pistol of choice (usually plasma, but if points are tight I go bolt) - Jump Chaplain - Eliminators (1 squad done, second just primed today) - Twin grav Leviathan - Fire Raptor with lascannons and heavy bolters (I don't use it often but I like it) - Stormhawk with Las-talon and missiles - Infiltrators - Suppressors - 1 squad of Intercessors (leaning more toward Phobos guys these days) - 2 Devastator squads (1 4xplasma 1 3 Las 1ML) - Venerable dread with autocannons - Relic Contemptor - Aggressors As far as Kill More/Take More goes, I'd like to be reasonably flexible to be able to do both. I've played in a couple RTTs, but never as mono RG. So basically I'm a blank slate right now. One of my plans in the near future is to game with some of the local players and tell them to bring their nastiest list. One guy plays Orks and Custodes, so he can help with both horde and elite game plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 I did see someone Ambush 10 Vetercessors and the Rapid Fire and assault something first turn in a batrep. Can't discount that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluflash Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 I'd like to add tossing a 2 point sniper rifle onto all of your scout squads Sargent's. He can still carry a Bolter, and from turn 2 on can fish for those MWs on 5s against visible characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted October 19, 2019 Author Share Posted October 19, 2019 I'd like to add tossing a 2 point sniper rifle onto all of your scout squads Sargent's. He can still carry a Bolter, and from turn 2 on can fish for those MWs on 5s against visible characters. Hadn't planned on using any Scouts this time around, but that's an interesting idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Had a game where I SftS two eliminator units and an Ex Tenebris LT. Mind you, I had Bolter Fusillade and Artisans as I was Raptors. They deepstruck turn two and between Surgical Strikes and the Sarge buff hit on 2+s and MW's on 4+(That I fished for) and the three units killed a shadowfield Archon. So if you play on a board with little terrain and/or your opponent ignores cover you can still have them come down and be effective. Brom MKIV 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 As the title states. My plan for next year is to build and play the nastiest, tricksiest, sneaky beakiest Raven Guard list I can muster up and take a real stab at becoming a solid tournament player. Anything goes in this thread. List suggestions, relic/trait combos, strat usage, the optimal trajectory for a Fire Raptor to ensure it connects with my opponents nose. Anything. Going to Bugeater next year claws? Midwest conquest in KC is one of my favourites but dunno if I can make it next year :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 As the title states. My plan for next year is to build and play the nastiest, tricksiest, sneaky beakiest Raven Guard list I can muster up and take a real stab at becoming a solid tournament player. Anything goes in this thread. List suggestions, relic/trait combos, strat usage, the optimal trajectory for a Fire Raptor to ensure it connects with my opponents nose. Anything. Going to Bugeater next year claws? Midwest conquest in KC is one of my favourites but dunno if I can make it next year :( Going to try. It should be noted that my local meta is absolutely BRUTAL, with one of the top 10 ITC teams playing at my local shops...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) Here's what I'm looking at right now. I'm 6 models away from having this list ready to go. At a bit of a loss on what to do with the remaining 206 points. I need more anti tank and have a couple Devastator squads and a Stormhawk available, but I'm not sure what to go with. I have no tanks at all. ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [31 PL, -1CP, 618pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + **Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard + HQ + Captain in Phobos Armour [5 PL, 99pts]: Camo cloak, Master-crafted instigator bolt carbine Librarian [6 PL, -1CP, 116pts]: 2) Enveloping Darkness, 3) Spectral Blade, Bolt pistol, Force sword, Jump Pack, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, The Imperium's Sword Librarian in Phobos Armour [5 PL, 101pts]: Camo cloak, Force sword + Troops + Infiltrator Squad [5 PL, 110pts]: 4x Infilltrator, Infiltrator Sergeant Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 106pts]: Auto Bolt Rifle . 4x Intercessor . Intercessor Sergeant: Thunder hammer Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 86pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Stalker Bolt Rifle . 4x Intercessor . Intercessor Sergeant ++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [28 PL, 487pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + **Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard + HQ + Chaplain [4 PL, 72pts]: 6. Canticle of Hate, Bolt pistol, Litany of Hate + Heavy Support + Eliminator Squad [4 PL, 72pts] . Eliminator Sergeant: Bolt sniper rifle, Camo cloak . 2x Eliminator with Bolt Sniper: 2x Bolt sniper rifle, 2x Camo cloak Eliminator Squad [4 PL, 72pts] . Eliminator Sergeant: Bolt sniper rifle, Camo cloak . 2x Eliminator with Bolt Sniper: 2x Bolt sniper rifle, 2x Camo cloak Relic Leviathan Dreadnought [16 PL, 271pts]: 2x Heavy flamer . Leviathan siege claw: Meltagun . Leviathan siege claw: Meltagun ++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [39 PL, 689pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + **Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard + HQ + Kayvaan Shrike [8 PL, 130pts] + Elites + Aggressor Squad [5 PL, 111pts]: 2x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant . Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [13 PL, 167pts] . Dreadnought melee weapon: Dreadnought combat weapon, Storm bolter . Kheres assault cannon Vanguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 135pts]: Jump Pack . Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw . Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw . Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw . Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw . Veteran Sergeant: 2x Lightning Claw Venerable Dreadnought [6 PL, 146pts]: Twin autocannon, Twin autocannon ++ Total: [98 PL, -1CP, 1,794pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe Edited October 21, 2019 by Claws and Effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Here's what I'm looking at right now. I'm 6 models away from having this list ready to go. At a bit of a loss on what to do with the remaining 206 points. I need more anti tank and have a couple Devastator squads and a Stormhawk available, but I'm not sure what to go with. I have no tanks at all. ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [31 PL, -1CP, 618pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + **Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard + HQ + Captain in Phobos Armour [5 PL, 99pts]: Camo cloak, Master-crafted instigator bolt carbine Librarian [6 PL, -1CP, 116pts]: 2) Enveloping Darkness, 3) Spectral Blade, Bolt pistol, Force sword, Jump Pack, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, The Imperium's Sword Librarian in Phobos Armour [5 PL, 101pts]: Camo cloak, Force sword + Troops + Infiltrator Squad [5 PL, 110pts]: 4x Infilltrator, Infiltrator Sergeant Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 106pts]: Auto Bolt Rifle . 4x Intercessor . Intercessor Sergeant: Thunder hammer Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 86pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Stalker Bolt Rifle . 4x Intercessor . Intercessor Sergeant ++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [28 PL, 487pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + **Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard + HQ + Chaplain [4 PL, 72pts]: 6. Canticle of Hate, Bolt pistol, Litany of Hate + Heavy Support + Eliminator Squad [4 PL, 72pts] . Eliminator Sergeant: Bolt sniper rifle, Camo cloak . 2x Eliminator with Bolt Sniper: 2x Bolt sniper rifle, 2x Camo cloak Eliminator Squad [4 PL, 72pts] . Eliminator Sergeant: Bolt sniper rifle, Camo cloak . 2x Eliminator with Bolt Sniper: 2x Bolt sniper rifle, 2x Camo cloak Relic Leviathan Dreadnought [16 PL, 271pts]: 2x Heavy flamer . Leviathan siege claw: Meltagun . Leviathan siege claw: Meltagun ++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [39 PL, 689pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + **Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard + HQ + Kayvaan Shrike [8 PL, 130pts] + Elites + Aggressor Squad [5 PL, 111pts]: 2x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant . Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [13 PL, 167pts] . Dreadnought melee weapon: Dreadnought combat weapon, Storm bolter . Kheres assault cannon Vanguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 135pts]: Jump Pack . Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw . Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw . Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw . Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw . Veteran Sergeant: 2x Lightning Claw Venerable Dreadnought [6 PL, 146pts]: Twin autocannon, Twin autocannon ++ Total: [98 PL, -1CP, 1,794pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe How about 3 grav centurion devs? Pretty good with the new grav stratagem+deep strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Add 2 Aggressors. Makes unit more dangerous and survivable. Do you plan on having a screen for the Levi? Do you have a plan for Secondaries with these units? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) Add 2 Aggressors. Makes unit more dangerous and survivable. Do you plan on having a screen for the Levi? Do you have a plan for Secondaries with these units? The Levi is probably going to wander around with the auto bolt rifle Intercessors. No plan for secondaries at all. That's kind of the point of the thread actually. My only ITC experience consisted of me getting mudhole stomped 3 times in a row. I'm trying to improve both my list building and my competition playing. That's my list right now because with a few exceptions that is pretty much everything I have ready to go. I don't feel bad about losing games if I at least make them fight for the win, but I really felt like I just gave my opponents an easy win to move ahead on. Edited October 21, 2019 by Claws and Effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 I'll second the suggestion from Nusquam and suggest to put twin las on the contemptor. It's only a couple points more and gives you 4 las cannon shots and a very good platform. This is also my little plug to track this thread because I too want to get better at the game from competitive standpoint in case I ever decide to roll up into a tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 I'll second the suggestion from Nusquam and suggest to put twin las on the contemptor. It's only a couple points more and gives you 4 las cannon shots and a very good platform. No can do. It's already built and painted. In order to run twin Las I'd have to buy another one and it just isn't in the budget for the foreseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sultansean Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Building off Nusquams post: I think must includes/build around units and combos are: 3 units of eliminators with Instigator bolt carbines, to screen out deep strikers. Alternatively would be 2 units of infiltrators. This really helps out vs GSC, Orks, and the mirror match against marines. Thunderfire cannon. The strats to half movement and shoots twice is just key against combat armies. Winning deployment with the use of Master of Ambush, Infiltrators, and strike from the shadows. Assuming ITC, half the time you will know if you are going first or second with a reasonable degree of accuracy. Depending on the matchup you might still want to deploy conservatively since you still have a 1 in 6 chance of being seized on. The other half of the time I think you have to deploy conservative and plan to go second and leverage strike from the shadows. - Vanguard vets pair nicely with the infiltrators strat. Moving min 13 inches either forward into attack or back in to cover - Hellblasters do well with strike from the shadows - Assault centurions and/or Aggressors pair well with master of ambush. Assault Centurions are in my opinion the strongest unit in the codex, but I think that they are going to go up in price since they really steal the thunder from aggressors. Smash captains are still amazing, I can see the appeal of the sniper captain, but I think that the smash captain just puts out too much raw damage to pass up on. Scouts, potentially with camo cloaks are a great objective holding unit / engineers, and are an auto include for me. CP, marines have lots of amazing strats, so I think minimum double battalion is probably the way to go. Brom MKIV 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 I'll second the suggestion from Nusquam and suggest to put twin las on the contemptor. It's only a couple points more and gives you 4 las cannon shots and a very good platform. No can do. It's already built and painted. In order to run twin Las I'd have to buy another one and it just isn't in the budget for the foreseeable future. Darn, was hoping you might have some magnets in there... so... I have a workaround for you. First get this: https://www.amazon.com/SE-81970SF-Professional-Adjustable-Jewelers/dp/B008CO8JZE Then 2 x of this: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Contemptor-Pattern-Lascannon Then this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-100pcs-3X1mm-Round-Disc-Magnets-Rare-Earth-Neodymium-Magnet-N35/322544491726?hash=item4b19265cce:m:mfXt1wgJka_YtPXsqNgGz3A And your problem is solved. You're welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) This is my preferred vendor for magnets https://www.apexmagnets.com/ Edited October 22, 2019 by duz_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 That's the best pricing I've seen outside of ebay. Have to pay for shipping, but they're a stronger grade that the N35 that is mostly found on ebay. Thanks for the link! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapter master 454 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Don't forget good ol' surprise centurions. While assault are nice, I personally have been finding devastator centurions extremely effective. By using StfS on 2 of them, 12 grav-turions that can appear anywhere with a threat range that most armies will struggle to keep out will level most forces and hey, they still have 3 attacks base so not bad at melee against chaff units as well since we do have a fall back and shoot stratagem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) My shopping list so far: - 1 box of Eliminators - 1 box of Infiltrators/Incursors - 2 Warsuits - 1 more box of Aggressors Oh, and I do have a smash Captain with a combi-melta and hammer. Usually put Ravens Fury on him so he can advance, fire the melta, and charge. Edited October 22, 2019 by Claws and Effect thewarriorhunter, duz_ and Jacques Corbin 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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