Aothaine Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Blood Angels aren't really a supplement though, they're a full Codex of their own. Fair point. Still think it is silly to leave them out though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) I rate them very highly but I need more experience against them to really gauge them, and doubly so for the Dark Angels. Edited January 28, 2020 by Ishagu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 They are both a lot better now. jaxom and Ishagu 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waking Dreamer Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Enough of this, let’s get on to the real question. Who has the best psychic doctrine. I only know of the imperial fist one, and I’m not a fan of the fact that our alternate smite can be turned off by not putting a single model on terrain Grey Knights for sure imho. Though there is an argument for Ultramarines. With their new Inner Flame psychic power and a couple of Strats to boost it, one GK character was able to dish out 12 MW to one enemy unit in just one psychic phase. Our psychic minds haven't yet unlocked the full potential of our new abilities but slowly and surely we are beginning to harness this psychic awakening! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Raven Guard successors are better than actual Raven Guard by a pretty wide margin. They only lose access to Shrike and most of the relics, while keeping the Strategems and Surgical Strikes and also being able to trade their easily circumvented Chapter Tactic for ones that work better for them. I'm guessing you'll find that all of them are in similar situations. Archon_77 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Hopefully they can leave the IH supplement alone from here on out and fix the issue when they rewrite the FW Indexes FW is not the problem; the IH supplement is. Still. Special Officer Doofy, Snazzy, Shadow Captain Vyper and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 I have no idea how to rank BT holistically against other supplements. I do think our Super Doctrine is easily one of the weakest, amounting to a 12.5%-25% damage buff on most targets, which only works when charging, on turn 3 or later. The targets where it would be most beneficial are the ones it doesn't work on. I'm also a bit miffed that we are the only Codex: Space Marines chapter without master-crafted weapons or the option to take an extra warlord trait. But overall, I like our supplement. The existing Primaris unit selection, and the fact that melee and transports in general are kind of bad this edition, are bigger issues for BT than the rules in our supplement. not even 12,5 because you must calculate how much of those Auto-wounds would normally wound anyway.... so the Superdoctrine is pretty :cuss. But I think the whole community dont realize how strong the 4++ relic; the "devot push" Stratagem is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 I am of the opinion that the current supplements are one thing above all - fluffy. Every ability, stratagem, unit and relic in the things is fluffy as hell, and it makes for fun gameplay. I've been rocking the Raven Guard supplement rules for the past month, and I'm loving every second because I'm a narrative player. Same thing for me. The Supplements are absolutly great. But in a View of Balance there are very huge problems. The power rating for Iron Hands is soo signifacant over the top... and there are combos which are not fun to play against if you want a fair game. Maybe there should be some nerfs for units in matched play so far. Or GW should make some more differences by the game modus itself. - Open Play - Matched Play - Competitive Play / Tournament Play (where some fluffy combos and some things are just not allowed so far). So nobody loose the main thing why the game is played so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymnblade Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 not even 12,5 because you must calculate how much of those Auto-wounds would normally wound anyway.... so the Superdoctrine is pretty :cuss.Yes, that's where I got 12.5% from. If you hit on 3s and wound on 3s, you'd usually get 12 hits and 8 wounds from 18 attacks, but with the doctrine you get 9 regular hits + 3 auto-wounds, which is 6 wounds + 3 auto-wounds, so you get 9/8=112.5% of the output. If you wound on 4+, it's +25%. If you hit on 4+ or 2+, the math is a bit different, but in the same ballpark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snazzy Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Hopefully they can leave the IH supplement alone from here on out and fix the issue when they rewrite the FW Indexes FW is not the problem; the IH supplement is. Still. Amen. IH are still nasty, even without vehicles. And, are we really going to ignore that they have 3 Chapter Traits? Special Officer Doofy 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 not even 12,5 because you must calculate how much of those Auto-wounds would normally wound anyway.... so the Superdoctrine is pretty .Yes, that's where I got 12.5% from. If you hit on 3s and wound on 3s, you'd usually get 12 hits and 8 wounds from 18 attacks, but with the doctrine you get 9 regular hits + 3 auto-wounds, which is 6 wounds + 3 auto-wounds, so you get 9/8=112.5% of the output. If you wound on 4+, it's +25%. If you hit on 4+ or 2+, the math is a bit different, but in the same ballpark. 1 attack with normal hits on 3+ are 0,5 wounds with doctrine and 0,44 wounds without. That makes just 6 percent in total against T3. So your math is correct but I prefer to calcalate this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymnblade Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Yes,0.5 is 12.5% more than 0.44. Maritn 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 if we compare this to the Blood Angels or Wolves its very annoying - although Scars not that good here but we are always last or on 3rd position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenerationTerrorist Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 In an era of Character Bubble-Buffs and Area-Denial, then Raven Guard are absolutely lethal IMHO. This, linked with the likes of Phobos-Based units and Infiltration Stratagems, makes them an extremely special and fun Codex Chapter to run. I've played a dozen or so 1000pt games with my Raven Guard fluffly list of Shrike + 10th Company, and have only one complaint - Lack of anti-armour. (This will be rectified with the addition of a 2nd Company Vanguard of 2 MM Contemptors, a unit of Centurions and a Smash Captain) Raven Guard are, IMHO, the most tactically flexible of the old Legions in this edition. Lasairiona 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 I have not lost a game yet versus any other SM with my updated Smurf army. tychobi and Aothaine 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 I have not lost a game yet versus any other SM with my updated Smurf army. then try to beat the LVO-winner list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I will indeed bruvha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywrath Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Position of the GK in the meta compared to the other chapters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tychobi Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Position of the GK in the meta compared to the other chapters? Grey Knights are not space marines. But to answer the spirit of your question. Last. Dead last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 Position of the GK in the meta compared to the other chapters?Grey Knights are not space marines. But to answer the spirit of your question. Last. Dead last. Not anymore, definitely not. I've just seen them performing well at a local tournament, and I've been looking at some of the combinations of abilities. I need to look into them more but there are definitely some tasty rules in the new supplement. Waking Dreamer, Skywrath and BLACK BLΠFLY 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waking Dreamer Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Position of the GK in the meta compared to the other chapters?Grey Knights are not space marines. But to answer the spirit of your question. Last. Dead last. Not anymore, definitely not. I've just seen them performing well at a local tournament, and I've been looking at some of the combinations of abilities. I need to look into them more but there are definitely some tasty rules in the new supplement. Grey Knights just got pretty good results at Beachhead Brawl 2020. Lawrence Baker from Tabletop Tactics has managed 6-0 with his mono GK Army at the event: https://www.bestcoas...d=6&embed=false He beat some pretty tough lists including Raven Guard successors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Bakers a great player and fun to watch on the tube. I'm happy to see GK having a good go, but that point system isn't intuitive. It looks like he's ranked 25 in Battle Points but 2nd in ... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waking Dreamer Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Hmm, apparently the Raven Guard Successor included: - 18 Centurions - 3 Thunderfire Cannons - 2 Whirlwinds So...GK could be placed around Raven Guard Successor tier or higher now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 You're going to need a laregr set of data before making any conclusions like that. A Faction has to be judged in enough settings that the factors of a few potentially skewed dice outcomes, or quality of opponents aren't giving you a false read on the Factions true value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Regardless it’s an impressive showing and Spyder is a top player. Kallas 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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