New Mephiston/Psychic awakening p3

[Panzer]

 

The new PA2 preview is up, and it also contains stratagems for upgrading the generic characters, e.g. a Librarian to a Chief Librarian:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/11/faith-fury-a-first-lookgw-homepage-post-3/

 

Could be a likely thing to be included as extra stratagems in Blood of Baal.

Possibly but it would be odd in that we already have our Chief Librarian and Master Chaplain as named characters. In the same way that we don't get a Chapter Master stratagem.

 

 

That really should be no issue at all. Firstly our Codex is not just for the parent chapter and secondly you can't use Mephiston etc. in a narrative scenario that's set before Mephiston existed etc.

[Wassa]

So if "Chief Librarian" becomes a real thing, and ours is already a "Chief Librarian", will that make his new datasheet even more powerful?

Though I suppose we pay for it via points, rather than via the CP stratagem.

[SnorriSnorrison]

 

Becoming primaris would be a walk in the park for him. I bet he was awake for the whole process on a couch eating ice cream and watching Marvel movies.

 

 

Probably performed the surgery on himself.

 

Strange that he's in exactly the same armour, while all other Mango Juiced Marines grow a lot larger and need antirely new armour.

Yeah, that armour doesn’t look like the regular Tacticus X(sp?) armour, doesn’t even have the ankle balls that other embiggened characters/troops have.

I guess the sentiment will be that he’s still wearing artificer armour, which back in the day could look nothing like regular mark VII powerarmour, despite being embiggened. No armour can hold Mephiston’s awesomeness though. B)

[Blindhamster]

More likely the cover art is prior to the rubicon as it sounded like the Rubicon comes after the campaign in the thousand sons area

[SnorriSnorrison]

More likely the cover art is prior to the rubicon as it sounded like the Rubicon comes after the campaign in the thousand sons area

 

Good call, that would make sense.

 

Man, I just want that model RIGHT THE EMPEROR NOW!

[Spagunk]

So if "Chief Librarian" becomes a real thing, and ours is already a "Chief Librarian", will that make his new datasheet even more powerful?

Though I suppose we pay for it via points, rather than via the CP stratagem.

Honestly I think it would be a very good idea to provide Mephiston with the chief librarian trait intrinsically rather than tie it to a strat.

[Frater Antodeniel]

It is not everyday that someone can quote himself, but since GW offered me the possibility...It may not be directly on the topic, but who can blame me to share such information.^^

 

I think that one of the main problem of the Blood Angels lore is that to explain one character, you must also explain all the other major characters.

 

Lemartes novel explored Lemartes point of view of the Black Rage, and how he experienced the flashbacks, while it also depicted how the Red Thirst affected those that fell to it (most of the 3rd company).

 

Mephiston Novels, those from Darius Hinks, it explore the character that Mephiston is and how it behave while also exploring shards of his past experiences to explain the nature of the being he has become.

 

Dante by Guy Haley, depict how Dante became a Blood Angels, and his experience of the Red Thirst, the fear of it, and the later rejection/abstinence of blood consumption from "living" being. In Dante, the Black Rage appears as a secondary, more distant yet deadly curse, while it is mostly the Red Thirst that is explored by Guy Haley in the book. On the other side of coin, in Devastation of Baal, it is the Black Rage that in the end appear to be the last trial of the character, when Dante fight against it, wishing to remain sain to the very end, fighting as Dante and not as Sanguinius. (In this regard, Dante acted like Lemartes did, fighting to keep the head out of the water that is the Black Rage.)

 

But two important Characters remains unexplored :

 

Astorath and Corbulo, each also exploring both the Black Rage and the Red Thirst.

 

Those two character are as much important as the three others, and are also important to explain the twin curses.

 

So there are still plenty of holes in the Lore to be filled.

 

--------------------------------------

 

 

 

Astorath: Angel of Mercy :

 

[Spyros]

 

So if "Chief Librarian" becomes a real thing, and ours is already a "Chief Librarian", will that make his new datasheet even more powerful?

Though I suppose we pay for it via points, rather than via the CP stratagem.

Honestly I think it would be a very good idea to provide Mephiston with the chief librarian trait intrinsically rather than tie it to a strat.

 

 

Based on new codexes, Chief Librarian Tigurius has exactly the same stats as the Primaris Librarian.

The differences are that primaris casts 2, denies 1, knows smite +2 from Librarius,

while Tigurius casts 2, denies 2, knows smite +3 from Librarius or +3 from Indomitus. Tigurius also has Librarian and Chief Librarian keywords.

 

The revealed warlord trait just allows to know powers from multiple disciplines simultaneously.

I don't know how the (unknown) stratagem for librarians will work, but, the revealed chaplain stratagem makes him know 1 more litany and cast 1 more litany.

[Spagunk]

 

 

 

Based on new codexes, Chief Librarian Tigurius has exactly the same stats as the Primaris Librarian.

The differences are that primaris casts 2, denies 1, knows smite +2 from Librarius,

while Tigurius casts 2, denies 2, knows smite +3 from Librarius or +3 from Indomitus. Tigurius also has Librarian and Chief Librarian keywords.

 

The revealed warlord trait just allows to know powers from multiple disciplines simultaneously.

I don't know how the (unknown) stratagem for librarians will work, but, the revealed chaplain stratagem makes him know 1 more litany and cast 1 more litany.

 

But with no access to anything from C: SM, The BA's CHIEF librarian is just a beefier "normal" librarian. I argue as the chief librarian, he should also be able to pick spells from multiple disciplines, not just the sanguinary one. This would assume that we will continue to NOT have access to similar stratagems until an eventual codex update.

 

So bascially:

 

+1w +1a for Primaris upgrade

+Multi-discipline for Chief Librarian.

 

Please note that these new C: SM strats are newer things they've added since C: SM which may be why it wasn't included as an option initially: to separate the events from PA with the codex updates. Honestly have no idea what they were thinking other than "Different Teams" type of thing.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Spagunk

[Pathstrider]

Note that the “take multiple disciplines” isn’t the stratagem - it’s a warlord trait if your warlord also has chief librarian.

 

I expect the librarian stratagem will be an additional denial and power known. So in line with what Mephiston has today?

Edited November 11, 2019 by Pathstrider

[Spagunk]

"Not only do these Stratagems grant your Characters powerful new abilities, but they also unlock access to bespoke Warlord Traits."

This reads that you only get access to the warlord trait through the strats. Ergo, strat "Chief Librarian" give access to Warlord trait "High Scholar of the Librarius" and thus my comment about Mephy.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Spagunk

[Charlo]

 

 

 

 

Becoming primaris would be a walk in the park for him. I bet he was awake for the whole process on a couch eating ice cream and watching Marvel movies.

Probably performed the surgery on himself.

 

Strange that he's in exactly the same armour, while all other Mango Juiced Marines grow a lot larger and need antirely new armour.

Those collar pillars with skulls on top look just as terrible as they did in the 90s too.. I can't believe they retained them..

You mean his iconic Psychic hood? One of his defining design traits?

 

Yeah, nah! They were never going.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

 

The new PA2 preview is up, and it also contains stratagems for upgrading the generic characters, e.g. a Librarian to a Chief Librarian:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/11/faith-fury-a-first-lookgw-homepage-post-3/

 

Could be a likely thing to be included as extra stratagems in Blood of Baal.

Possibly but it would be odd in that we already have our Chief Librarian and Master Chaplain as named characters. In the same way that we don't get a Chapter Master stratagem.

 

The new PA2 preview is up, and it also contains stratagems for upgrading the generic characters, e.g. a Librarian to a Chief Librarian:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/11/faith-fury-a-first-lookgw-homepage-post-3/

 

Could be a likely thing to be included as extra stratagems in Blood of Baal.

Possibly but it would be odd in that we already have our Chief Librarian and Master Chaplain as named characters. In the same way that we don't get a Chapter Master stratagem.

 

The new PA2 preview is up, and it also contains stratagems for upgrading the generic characters, e.g. a Librarian to a Chief Librarian:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/11/faith-fury-a-first-lookgw-homepage-post-3/

 

Could be a likely thing to be included as extra stratagems in Blood of Baal.

Possibly but it would be odd in that we already have our Chief Librarian and Master Chaplain as named characters. In the same way that we don't get a Chapter Master stratagem.

Successors want these things! I'm curious how much of the DIY stuff translates over to the "non compliant" chapters.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Dont-Be-Haten

[Panzer]

Found this on the discord:

 

 

Awesome to see that Fleshtearers will get some love but it also suggests that there will be nothing for successor chapters in PA3 unfortunately.

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

Flesh Tearers getting the IA treatment is cool. As far as Dante crossing the Rubicon, the biggest concern I’ll have is that they bork up the way he looks and give some stupid looking variant of Mk10 armour. I hope when/if they primarisize him he gets his own bespoke armour. Also he could very well be the RG/Abbadon-esque miniature for the BA. He himself doesn’t have to be as large as the other two, they. Outdoor take question from Celestine and that Sigmar character I can’t recall the name of and include all sorts of flowing parchment and basing elements to fill the model out with. A couple of special snow flake Snaguinary Guard but not Sanguinary Guard models to go to battle along side him would be cool too. As for Mephy, definite buy for me. The fact he can “Wings of Sanguinius” to keep up with the army makes all the difference in my decision.

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

Flesh Tearers getting the IA treatment is cool. As far as Dante crossing the Rubicon, the biggest concern I’ll have is that they bork up the way he looks and give some stupid looking variant of Mk10 armour. I hope when/if they primarisize him he gets his own bespoke armour. Also he could very well be the RG/Abbadon-esque miniature for the BA. He himself doesn’t have to be as large as the other two, they. Could take que from Celestine and that Sigmar character I can’t recall the name of and include all sorts of flowing parchment and basing elements to fill the model out with. A couple of special snow flake Snaguinary Guard but not Sanguinary Guard models to go to battle along side him would be cool too. As for Mephy, definite buy for me. The fact he can “Wings of Sanguinius” to keep up with the army makes all the difference in my decision.

[Panzer]

For Dante I'd love to get something like the new Katakros model from AoS (just less static as he'd be in the middle of the fight with his Jump Pack, Axe and Inferno Pistol obviously).

 

 

The rules they gave Katakros are great too. Basically at full health all his attendands fight and he only contributes a little. When he loses wounds one after another attendand falls away but he contributes more until he finally uses all of his attacks and also uses his shield.

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

For Dante I'd love to get something like the new Katakros model from AoS (just less static as he'd be in the middle of the fight with his Jump Pack, Axe and Inferno Pistol obviously).

 

 

The rules they gave Katakros are great too. Basically at full health all his attendands fight and he only contributes a little. When he loses wounds one after another attendand falls away but he contributes more until he finally uses all of his attacks and also uses his shield.

That would be cool, have him on a base with a couple of Sang Guard-esque adjutants who possible give out their own Audra buffs and contribute to comabat and as they die off, Dante himself starts to fight harder, motivated by the fall of his comrades. Would be a cool way to do a LoW/Primarchs-esque model for BA. I just hope they don’t make him look like :cuss , like Shrike.

[Panzer]

I like the new Shrike. His base is super underwhelming but the rest is awesome and fitting imo.

[Pathstrider]

"Not only do these Stratagems grant your Characters powerful new abilities, but they also unlock access to bespoke Warlord Traits."

 

This reads that you only get access to the warlord trait through the strats. Ergo, strat "Chief Librarian" give access to Warlord trait "High Scholar of the Librarius" and thus my comment about Mephy.

My point was that not all generic chief librarians will have high scholar (some will have other warlord traits or not be warlord) so it’s not something intrinsic to being chief librarian (that’s the as yet unknown ability from the stratagem, probably the extra deny and power)

 

Mephiston, as a special character, will probably still have a fixed warlord trait - and already gets the extra deny. So no need for a chief librarian keyword.

[Panzer]

 

"Not only do these Stratagems grant your Characters powerful new abilities, but they also unlock access to bespoke Warlord Traits."

 

This reads that you only get access to the warlord trait through the strats. Ergo, strat "Chief Librarian" give access to Warlord trait "High Scholar of the Librarius" and thus my comment about Mephy.

My point was that not all generic chief librarians will have high scholar (some will have other warlord traits or not be warlord) so it’s not something intrinsic to being chief librarian (that’s the as yet unknown ability from the stratagem, probably the extra deny and power)

 

Mephiston, as a special character, will probably still have a fixed warlord trait - and already gets the extra deny. So no need for a chief librarian keyword.

 

 

Or he could get the chief librarian keyword for completeness sake and to avoid having two chief librarians from the same chapter in the army (if we get such a stratagem too). But yeah he most likely won't be able to benefit from that Warlord trait just like Tigerius doesn't. It's something for non-named chief librarians.

[SnorriSnorrison]

If Mephiston just gets his former warlord trait as a standard rule and a bespoke trait just for him, I’d be down with that. I find it a bit lackluster that our special characters share our common WL traits.

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

I like the new Shrike. His base is super underwhelming but the rest is awesome and fitting imo.

Hence why I clipped mine off.

[Karhedron]

Well, they need to give us something for the doctrines we are missing...

Black Templars have received a Combat Doctrine in PA2 (6s to-hit in melee automatically wound). This makes me slightly more hopeful that we will get one too in PA3. Whether we get the Devastaor/Tactical/Assault doctrines as well remains to be seen.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Karhedron

[Spagunk]

 

 

My point was that not all generic chief librarians will have high scholar (some will have other warlord traits or not be warlord) so it’s not something intrinsic to being chief librarian (that’s the as yet unknown ability from the stratagem, probably the extra deny and power)

 

Mephiston, as a special character, will probably still have a fixed warlord trait - and already gets the extra deny. So no need for a chief librarian keyword.

Or he could get the chief librarian keyword for completeness sake and to avoid having two chief librarians from the same chapter in the army (if we get such a stratagem too). But yeah he most likely won't be able to benefit from that Warlord trait just like Tigerius doesn't. It's something for non-named chief librarians.

And I hypothesize that tigurius didn't get it not by design but by unfortunate timing. Most of the time, books are iterative so they could have had a change in design philosophy later or they intended PA to be the catalyst for enhanced librarians.

 

It's important to note that for all intents and purposes, codexes and suppliments are setup and designed more or less "in a vacuum". They've gotten better but GW dedicates teams to work on certain books and don't usually have writing teams mingle directly unless it's with the design team or for research purposes. It's gotten better but their teams are still more or less self contained.

 

 

Edit: Quick clarification. The rules team works under a head writer assigned to a given book. There is no guarantee that one writer/rules team that worked on one book worked on another. You do see some rules team overlap but given all of the dev talks and their release cadence, that is probably not possible. This is standard codex writing and not to be confused with their Black Library team.

 

Furthermore, the teams do talk with the model designers so they can write the rules for models. But GW has stated multiple times that models come first, rules second. So they likely saw primaris tigurius and wrote rules for him with little context of what was going to be written next in PA.

 

My iterative comment was more about they usually take what was already written and modify/improve or add to it. So my point being that it is possible that when they started writing PA, their thought wasn't "Oh, the primaris upgrade for tigurius was X so we should maintain parity" but is more like "How does this PA affect this unit directly?" so they end up adding or iterating on previous ideas: "Well this is what a Primaris Librarian/Character looks like so add PA effects to this other unit we are writing".

 

It's one of the ways people cry about codex creep, even if GW has seemed to level it off a bit lately.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Spagunk