New Mephiston/Psychic awakening p3

[Panzer]

The point is that successor chapters can only take from the SIW unless they use the Stratagem to gain access to the parent chapters relics. Also vehicles can't take SIW (sorry, no Sv2+/5++ Libby Dread or Libby Dread with Quake Bolts).

[Djangomatic82]

The point is that successor chapters can only take from the SIW unless they use the Stratagem to gain access to the parent chapters relics. Also vehicles can't take SIW (sorry, no Sv2+/5++ Libby Dread or Libby Dread with Quake Bolts).

I can see the vehicle exclusion as RAI. A 2+/5++ Libby Dread would be pretty auto include for me.

[Panzer]

 

The point is that successor chapters can only take from the SIW unless they use the Stratagem to gain access to the parent chapters relics. Also vehicles can't take SIW (sorry, no Sv2+/5++ Libby Dread or Libby Dread with Quake Bolts).

I can see the vehicle exclusion as RAI. A 2+/5++ Libby Dread would be pretty auto include for me.

 

 

Well yeah it's definitely intended. It explicitly says no vehicles lol

[Djangomatic82]

 

 

The point is that successor chapters can only take from the SIW unless they use the Stratagem to gain access to the parent chapters relics. Also vehicles can't take SIW (sorry, no Sv2+/5++ Libby Dread or Libby Dread with Quake Bolts).

I can see the vehicle exclusion as RAI. A 2+/5++ Libby Dread would be pretty auto include for me.

 

 

Well yeah it's definitely intended. It explicitly says no vehicles lol

 

yeah, but I could also have seen GW adding a <DREADNAUGHT> exception incredibly easily and with lots of precendent. It also falls in line with the type of mistake the rules writers often make, so i can see people making the argument and GW FAQ'ing it in a few weeks.

[Morticon]

The point is that successor chapters can only take from the SIW unless they use the Stratagem to gain access to the parent chapters relics. Also vehicles can't take SIW (sorry, no Sv2+/5++ Libby Dread or Libby Dread with Quake Bolts).

Small clarification here - Successors can only take *core relics* if they use a stratagem (at least this is how it works in all the existing supplements). 

 

They can take one Special Issue Wargear for free. 

[Archaeinox]

I desperately want Blood of Baal in case I get into my BA again but more importantly I want it for the shelf and the tasty spoilers within. I've seen youtube videos on rules content within BoB, but not much on lore. Do ya'll have a good youtuber you can share for that?

Edited December 8, 2019 by Archaeinox

[Indefragable]

Any specific spoilers you looking for?

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

I desperately want Blood of Baal in case I get into my BA again but more importantly I want it for the shelf and the tasty spoilers within. I've seen youtube videos on rules content within BoB, but not much on lore. Do ya'll have a good youtuber you can share for that?

Not much overall.

General lines are that Dante organizes the push back against the nids and creates the Angel's Halo which will be our launching point for future campaigns. 3 key locations from which to attack from, require three strike forces to reclaim for the imperium.

Then a 2 pager on what is happening in the Psychic awakening through veiled hints and such.

And a reference to the fact that becoming Primaris is not Mephiston's "final form".

[Panzer]

I desperately want Blood of Baal in case I get into my BA again but more importantly I want it for the shelf and the tasty spoilers within. I've seen youtube videos on rules content within BoB, but not much on lore. Do ya'll have a good youtuber you can share for that?

The Psychic Awakening books are pretty tame lore-wise. If you are mostly interested in that psrt of the hobby then you'll enjoy Darkness in the Blood much much more.

[Blindhamster]

i have the special ed version, which is supposedly a bit chunkier for lore, but not read it yet (been very busy, have started darkness in the blood though)

[appiah4]

 

I desperately want Blood of Baal in case I get into my BA again but more importantly I want it for the shelf and the tasty spoilers within. I've seen youtube videos on rules content within BoB, but not much on lore. Do ya'll have a good youtuber you can share for that?

Not much overall.

General lines are that Dante organizes the push back against the nids and creates the Angel's Halo which will be our launching point for future campaigns. 3 key locations from which to attack from, require three strike forces to reclaim for the imperium.

Then a 2 pager on what is happening in the Psychic awakening through veiled hints and such.

And a reference to the fact that becoming Primaris is not Mephiston's "final form".

 

Of course it's not.

Edited December 11, 2019 by appiah5

[Majkhel]

Almost there ;)

[Jolemai]

Closer to Raziel imo, especially as he already has a version of the Soulreaver Blade.

[Indefragable]

Lore-wise, I wasn't impressed with Blood of Baal, but I mean that in a neutral way. There was really not anything special in it, IMO, but that's saying it was perfectly satisfactory...just nothing in particular to rave about. And for me, to a certain degree I kinda liked the fact that Leviathan is far from over. Just because the Allies won at D-Day, does not mean the war ended right there, you know? For once I actually think GW injected a bit of realism in that sense into such a built-up storyline.

 

In short, Devastation of Baal was like the battle of Vienna against the Mongols back in the day: a cataclysmic engagement in and of itself, but nothing compared to the full might of Genghis' hordes in the big picture. In essence, Leviathan is SO BIG (in a good, 40k way) that the combined weight of all the present BA+Sucucessor chapters basically fought it to a stalemate*, with the opening of the rift and the appearance of Ka-Bhanda tilting things in the Imperium's favor, but by no means over. Guilliman's arrival was just push needed to be able to finally wipe Baal and its two moons fully clean of all remnants (its implied that this was a very long and tedious process) before G-man moved on. The next step was to gain even more breathing room in the immediate Baal sector before branching out fully into the Red Scar (sector of space where Baal is) which has essentially been entirely attacked by Leviathan on all fronts. At once. Yes, Leviathan is big enough to be an entire sector of space itself.

 

Dante's plan is to keep extending the cordon around Baal by aggressively attacking, eradicating, fortifying, next target, etc... so that the Red Scar can become the bastion of Imperial might and !hope! that Imperium Nihilus desperately needs. Once the Red Scar is satisfactorily secure, the BA can then be the lead elements in providing aid to the rest of the Dark imperium on that side of the Rift.

 

What's kinda talked about but not in great depth is the fact that Leviathan presents thorny problem for Dante: the good news is that its is spread out across the entire sector while the bad news is that it is spread out across the entire sector. The Alamo strategy Dante pulled on Baal proper was a double edged sword, creating a setpiece battle of such scale that it was an all-or-nothing way for both sides to cause maximum devastation. Now, it's a much more spread out and sporadic fight which means in theory it will be easier for the Imperium to reclaim...but the issue is that things are so dispersed, mopping up operations could take generations and, most vitally, Dante does not feel they have the time needed to fully secure the Red Scar: in typical 40k fashion, there are way too many threats and desperate stands going on throughout the Imperium Nihilus that he can't afford to secure the Red Scar as much as he'd like. Thus, his strategy is a bit bloody compared to what it could be.

 

That's what I took away from it, anyways.

 

 

*so depending on your perspective, the BA "won" without the help of Ka'Bhanda or Guilliman...even if it was the BA's 50.1 vs the 'Nids 49.9, the narrative leaves it just open enough that folks like me can claim "victory" for the BA on their own......but it's also pretty clear that it would have very likely been a Pyrrhic victory without outside help. Everyone can have their cake and eat it too, apparently. And everything is cake to the Tyranids, so I guess they can be happy as well?

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Indefragable

[Gingerninja]

One thing I am curious about is whether BA plus successors will start to operate more as a Legion again. With Dante having command authority over all the successor chapters, since most of them probably is hanging around after the Devestation of Baal.

 

What are your thoughts regarding this?

[Indefragable]

One thing I am curious about is whether BA plus successors will start to operate more as a Legion again. With Dante having command authority over all the successor chapters, since most of them probably is hanging around after the Devestation of Baal.

 

What are your thoughts regarding this?

Well it’s more informal/a favor more than formal authority. At least as “Legion” status goes. Dante could now command them as Warden, but that’s more if they happen to be operating in his theatre of command.

 

In the lead up to Dev of Baal, Dante’s recruitment technique was more of asking favors and pulling on heartstrings than any formal authority. Successors who agreed that the soil their genesire grew up on was worth dying to defend came, as did those who recognized that Leviathan was just a dire enough threat that only combined forces could defeat it. Then there were those who recognized Dante himself as the legendary leader that he is and came at his request. Point being, no one was obligated to show up as that lovable Seth was sure to vocalize.

 

I do think that BA Successors, especially those that operate somewhat similarly to the BA themselves, will be Dante’s go-to forces for a lot of things, but how formally the command structure becomes will be left to be seen. Dark Angels, Black Templars, and Space Wolves* we are not.

 

In a bigger picture sense I do think GW is pushing the Legion angle a bit more, for better and worse. Partially b/c  it’s easier to just lump chapters together rather than have so many different dudes, partially since they can follow on FW’s coattails with some of the Legion stuff. It wouldn’t surprise me either if GW makes M42 closer to M30 with chapters combining with their successors. Only Nixon can go to China, only Guilliman and break apart edicts of the Codex Astartes.

 

*funny how the more CQC oriented groups all tend to function as Legions in all but name

Edited December 11, 2019 by Indefragable

[Neuralshock]

 

 

One thing I am curious about is whether BA plus successors will start to operate more as a Legion again. With Dante having command authority over all the successor chapters, since most of them probably is hanging around after the Devestation of Baal.

 

What are your thoughts regarding this?

In the lead up to Dev of Baal, Dante’s recruitment technique was more of asking favors and pulling on heartstrings than any formal authority. Successors who agreed that the soil their genesire grew up on was worth dying to defend came, as did those who recognized that Leviathan was just a dire enough threat that only combined forces could defeat it. Then there were those who recognized Dante himself as the legendary leader that he is and came at his request. Point being, no one was obligated to show up as that lovable Seth was sure to vocalize.

They all showed up except for the Lamenters because, you know, they died...

 

JK I hope they have malakim phoros surfing a carnifex corpse into Baal at some point

[Leonaides]

In my head the lamenters not arriving was one of 2 things- not wanting to bring their curse with them and screw it up for everyone or their inquisition monitors not passing them the message since they didn't think they were worthy of returning to defend baal.

[Panzer]

One thing I am curious about is whether BA plus successors will start to operate more as a Legion again. With Dante having command authority over all the successor chapters, since most of them probably is hanging around after the Devestation of Baal.

 

What are your thoughts regarding this?

 

In Blood of Baal it says that plenty of Successor Chapters assured Dante their support. So not exactly like a Legion but like close allies.

[BluejayJunior]

I think the other Chapter Masters see Dante as more of a "First among equals" rather than as their commander. They give him the respect he deserves from his experience, age, and skills. And they trust him not to abuse his power or assume they are subservient to him as seen in DoB where he calls for a vote for who will be in command of the defense of Baal instead of assuming that everyone will just be okay with following him.

 

I enjoyed the Blood of Baal lore, but it was a little light. To me, it almost felt more like a D&D setting book where it gives you the background and sets up the current timeline, but leaves all these little threads you can use to make your own narrative. 

[Gingerninja]

Well it will be interesting to see the development. I would prefer if they pushed the lore towards a "legion" style BA. BA and successors are clustered in the Red Scar area. Every successor is their own chapter, but that the over all commander of Imperium Nihlus is Dante. I dont know, but I liked the feeling in DoB when, almost, all BA chapters came together and fought for a common cause.

[Panzer]

Well it will be interesting to see the development. I would prefer if they pushed the lore towards a "legion" style BA. BA and successors are clustered in the Red Scar area. Every successor is their own chapter, but that the over all commander of Imperium Nihlus is Dante. I dont know, but I liked the feeling in DoB when, almost, all BA chapters came together and fought for a common cause.

 

Well that's the case basically. Just on a voluntary basis. They follow Dante because they want to but they could say "screw that we do something else" at any time. Just because it's not called Legion and the Chapter Masters aren't forced to follow Dantes command doesn't necessarily make them act differently.

[Majkhel]

Looking at the rules in Blood of Baal, it is clear that in the current game, successors act exactly the same as Blood Angels themselves. Only Flesh Tearers got different rules. This may support the legion-feel.
Howver the lore in the supplement supports the "primus inter pares" position of Dante among other sons of Sanguinius. There are numerous mentions of Dante and his "fellow Chapter Masters".

 

For me it looks more like Dantes new authority as Regent of Imperium Nihilus is more akin to that of a Lord Commander of the Imperium. This would mean that his authority now extends over other numerous branches of the Imperium's organization like the Guard, Navy etc. Of course this means that it also extends over Astartes as well, but again probably more like the authority of a Lord Commander - he may request their presence in a given theatre of war. But Astartes Chapters are very independent.

This may again be supported by the BoB lore, where it says that after DoB, many Chapters left or plan to leave to take care of their own holdings. We may assume that this is known to Dante, but I do not believe he would have the authority to order them to stay.

I do not see a leagion recreated any time soon.

[Panzer]

Looking at the rules in Blood of Baal, it is clear that in the current game, successors act exactly the same as Blood Angels themselves. Only Flesh Tearers got different rules. This may support the legion-feel.

 

 

Well first of all don't make the mistake to interpret rules for something in-universe. That's two different pair of shoes.

 

And secondly. Strictly speaking Successor chapters are different. They can't take the named characters obviously but more importantly, since we didn't get the updated relic Stratagem, RAW successor chapters can only take one single relic (a free SIW one or instead paying 1CP for a parent chapter one via Honoured by Baal) while the parent chapter can take up to three (a free one and 1/2 via Armoury of Baal).

[Majkhel]

 

Looking at the rules in Blood of Baal, it is clear that in the current game, successors act exactly the same as Blood Angels themselves. Only Flesh Tearers got different rules. This may support the legion-feel.

 

 

Well first of all don't make the mistake to interpret rules for something in-universe. That's two different pair of shoes.

 

And secondly. Strictly speaking Successor chapters are different. They can't take the named characters obviously but more importantly, since we didn't get the updated relic Stratagem, RAW successor chapters can only take one single relic (a free SIW one or instead paying 1CP for a parent chapter one via Honoured by Baal) while the parent chapter can take up to three (a free one and 1/2 via Armoury of Baal).

 

 

No worries, I'm not. I was just looking for clues for the future of GW's handling of the Chapters of the Blood. I admit I did erred however with oversimplification of the playstyle. I meant that successors have the same Abilities, so their strengths will be focused similarly.