Primaris All Infantry

[Marshal van Trapp]

So with the last supplements on the cusp of release, I've been taken to trying to figure out exactly what tactics/doctrine buff would benefit an all infantry primaris army.

 

First the founding chapter tactics and doctrine:

 

Ultramarines: the pro here is you get bolter Discipline from turn 2 even if you move, and your aggressors can double shoot as long as they dont advance. The drawback here is the chapter tactic isnt the strongest but can still be of benefit against armies that like to get up in your face and try to tie up all your units.

 

White Scars: if you wanted to go with a hyper aggressive list this chapter could be very strong. Although the doctrine does take until turn 3 to get going, the tactic is fantastic for mobility!

 

Iron Hands: while this army has been proven to be powerful even after the nerfs, I dont think the tactic OR the doctrine buff really helps an all infantry army. Although the nasty 5+ overwatch and 6+++ could be of benefit for a masses bolter army

EDIT: As pointed out the doctrine does help some of the heavy weapon wielding primaris so that should be taken into account especially for stalker intercessors and eliminators

 

Ravenguard: now this is a good chapter for an all infantry army! They benefit from both parts of their chapter tactic and under the right circumstances their doctrine buff can be brutal (las fusil eliminators vs characters knights being a big one) I cant honestly see a better option except for maybe...

 

Imperial Fists: bolter spam, bolter spam, BOLTER SPAM! I can see IF being the defacto go to army for infantry armies because of the exploding 6s, then pop the +1D buff on top of that and you'll be using bolters to mow down infantry AND tanks (although heavy bolter spam is better for killing vehicles)

 

Addendum: crimson fists- not much to add here beside trading off the ignoring of cover for a +1 to hit against any units with 5+ more models than their unit. Could be good against horde armies but will likely be just as effective against vehicles, maybe even less so since IF can ignore cover (which a few select vehicles can have)

 

Salamanders: I think these guys are going to be in a weird spot, from the combos I've seen people think they will be nigh unkillable under the right circumstances. But their tactics and doctrine are not the best for a primaris army, the doctrine buff only really helps aggressors right now since there are no primaris flamer or melta marines.

 

Overall I think IF or RG are the strongest for an all Infantry army (primaris or otherwise) but I'd love to hear everyone else's thoughts. Also you'll note that I didnt mention either BT or the custom tactics because I really dont have a grasp on the latter and the former I'm not sure if it will get access to the IF doctrine buff or not.

 

What are all of your thoughts? How would you run all primaris infantry? First Founding or Successor Tactics?

Edited October 23, 2019 by Marshal van Trapp

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

Raven Guard. Raaaaaaaaaaven Guard. RaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaven Guard. Fluffy for Phobos, easy to paint and really good right now.

 

I felt this also applied here. Raven Guard are phenomenal right now, it's fluffy for them to run all infantry (especially Phobos infantry) and they're super easy to paint but can be done well.

[General Strike]

I slightly disagree on Iron Hands doctrine not helping an all infantry army, cause it helps Eliminators and Stalker Intercessors, both are great Primaris units.

[Marshal van Trapp]

I slightly disagree on Iron Hands doctrine not helping an all infantry army, cause it helps Eliminators and Stalker Intercessors, both are great Primaris units.

You know what that is fair, I was thinking about it and the free reroll is super nice for units that dont want to crowd around a captain. That said I do firmly believe that the 6+++, move and shoot with heavy weapons, and the double wounds for wound table units greatly benefit a more mixed/mechanized force than just a pure infantry army

[General Strike]

Totally agree, and to get the most of the doctrine and chapter tactic you really have to build for it in Iron Hands, but with the others not so much.

[Daigo Cannon]

On all Primaris infranty I will say UM have an upper hand not the best of them all but you will be able to move and double tap your opponents intercessors will be more efficient than your enemies counter part, agressors are short range and you want to position them where they do the most damage. Move and still double tap or not suffer -1 from heavy weapons give room to play with the distance between you and your enemy with a higher output of shoots.

 

IF needs to be stationary in order to equalize the UM output, but I believe their startagems are better.

 

WS can flank a squad of 6 of 6 aggressors, give them no overwatch and +2 to charge, that is an awafeul combo if you are on the receiveing end.

 

RG have a lot of options, from shooting from afar using the terrain to start on your face with an all phobos army.

 

[USNCenturion]

Ultramarines and Raven Guard also have named chapter masters, while the others do not, for whatever that’s worth.

[Exilyth]

The biggest problem I see with an all-primaris all-infantry list is the limited antitank options:

hellblasters, las-fusil eliminators.

Maybe a power fist? But good luck delivering that without vehicles.

 

 

edit: IF could maybe skip AT if they bring enough bolt-weapons.

Edited October 24, 2019 by Exilyth

[Trevak Dal]

What would be a good choice for spamming combat squads?

 

Like running 6 10 man intecessor squads, (30 with rifles, 20 with autoguns and 10 with stalkers) 2 10 man hellPlasma guys with some pods and fun boys in them waiting to drop and give somebody some good news (magnetized Veteran Marines with special weapons)?

 

 

 

The idea being to just combat squad all of the units (just because I can't do it in my other armies and it is cool to me)

[Lemondish]

What would be a good choice for spamming combat squads?

 

Like running 6 10 man intecessor squads, (30 with rifles, 20 with autoguns and 10 with stalkers) 2 10 man hellPlasma guys with some pods and fun boys in them waiting to drop and give somebody some good news (magnetized Veteran Marines with special weapons)?

 

 

 

The idea being to just combat squad all of the units (just because I can't do it in my other armies and it is cool to me)

Deathwatch can help you get the most out of combat squadding, but the biggest issue is that you're giving up the chance at more CP by running multiple battalions, the Sarge weapon option, the Sarge ld, and making them less efficient when you use Stratagems on them. Hellblasters can probably get away with it if you don't intend to or don't have strats to use for them routinely.

 

Honestly, combat squadding would be awesome if it could also go the other way. If two 5 man squads could link up on deployment, you'd see that 90% of the time, I think.

[durdle-durdle]

I really disagree with fists being great for all infantry. Their uber tactic only affects heavy weapons and only against vehicles. In a primaris army, that's heavy hellblaster, Las fussils , and stalker bolters.

 

 

If you shoot stalkers at a rush, you're wasting shots with their s 4. The las fusils are too small to build around with a max of 9 in any list, which means you'll have to spam heavy hellblasters.

 

Ultramarines on the other hand can move and shoot their heavy weapons without penalty, and can move to combat and still shoot bolters to full range with intercessors or whatever. Ultramarines are good for most units where the others only benefit a few types.

 

Now with classic marines, I think fists are better because of how much easier it is to spam heavy bolters.

[Marshal van Trapp]

I really disagree with fists being great for all infantry. Their uber tactic only affects heavy weapons and only against vehicles. In a primaris army, that's heavy hellblaster, Las fussils , and stalker bolters.

 

 

If you shoot stalkers at a rush, you're wasting shots with their s 4. The las fusils are too small to build around with a max of 9 in any list, which means you'll have to spam heavy hellblasters.

 

Ultramarines on the other hand can move and shoot their heavy weapons without penalty, and can move to combat and still shoot bolters to full range with intercessors or whatever. Ultramarines are good for most units where the others only benefit a few types.

 

Now with classic marines, I think fists are better because of how much easier it is to spam heavy bolters.

While their doctrine buff only effects heavy weapons the explosive 6s and ignore cover from their chapter tactic is nothing to scoff at, especially when you consider how many primaris weapons fit within the "bolt weapon" category

 

Also you forgot suppressor, yeah their buff is only good against infantry but they're by far the cheapest autocannon platform available.

 

I'm still not convinced on Heavy Bolter spam either, it looks strong on paper but there are some much better marine builds (like IH still are)

[RandomMarine]

Tbh I quite like a IH horde list built around stalker intercessors,Heavy hellblasters,feirros, gravis chapter master and 12 aggressors. Its surprisingly mobile with the gravis units acting as the hammer, the gravis units alone is something like 32 T5 3+ 5++ 6+++ wounds and a ton of shots at bs2 rerolling all hits and god help anything it charges

[Lemondish]

Tbh I quite like a IH horde list built around stalker intercessors,Heavy hellblasters,feirros, gravis chapter master and 12 aggressors. Its surprisingly mobile with the gravis units acting as the hammer, the gravis units alone is something like 32 T5 3+ 5++ 6+++ wounds and a ton of shots at bs2 rerolling all hits and god help anything it charges

What is giving all these units BS2?

[Slips]

 

Tbh I quite like a IH horde list built around stalker intercessors,Heavy hellblasters,feirros, gravis chapter master and 12 aggressors. Its surprisingly mobile with the gravis units acting as the hammer, the gravis units alone is something like 32 T5 3+ 5++ 6+++ wounds and a ton of shots at bs2 rerolling all hits and god help anything it charges

What is giving all these units BS2?

Feirros, much like Tor Garadon, has a Signum Ability allowing one nearby unit to shoot at BS2+

[Aothaine]

Lets say you wanted to build an infantry army around bolters and primaris. Primaris have a huge range to select from now and can fill a lot of roles. But as has been said, you'll need to find a way to makeup for the lack of heavy weapons. Every chapter will have it's own spin on this for sure.

[Lemondish]

 

 

Tbh I quite like a IH horde list built around stalker intercessors,Heavy hellblasters,feirros, gravis chapter master and 12 aggressors. Its surprisingly mobile with the gravis units acting as the hammer, the gravis units alone is something like 32 T5 3+ 5++ 6+++ wounds and a ton of shots at bs2 rerolling all hits and god help anything it charges

What is giving all these units BS2?

Feirros, much like Tor Garadon, has a Signum Ability allowing one nearby unit to shoot at BS2+

That's only one unit though. Where are these 32(wouldn't it be 36?) T5 durable wounds with every unit getting BS2?

[SallyForth]

I’m running an all primaris*, all infantry brigade. 2k points. *(except a squad of five assault terminators). Salamanders.

 

I’ve got 2 games in with them so far and it is working well. It has heavy firepower and durability.

 

Adrax, Chaplain, librarian

 

2x five man veteran intercessors, assault bolters and thunder hammer

1x eight man infiltrators

3x five man intercessors

 

3x three man flame aggressors

1x five man assault terminators w/ storm shields and TH

 

3x three man suppressor squad

 

2x three man sniper eliminators

1x three man las fusil eliminators

 

If you’re going primaris infantry brigade, eliminators and suppressors are essentially just takes as they are thecheapest options to fill out three heavies and three fast attacks.

 

The infiltrators are used with self sacrifice, put them in concealed positions ahead of the central force, and give them every buff available to keep them absorbing fire for the rest of the army. They are extremely durable in cover, with smoke popped for -1 to hit, and spells for +1 T and -1 to hit. They can also benefit from the salamanders 6+++ relic if it’s nearby. This is how I march my flame aggressors up the board.

 

No matter what chapter you take, you need aggressors. I’ve used the bolter versions and they have always been all stars. Being salamanders and having access to lots of cool strats, I’m giving the flamers a fair shake and so far they have been AMAZING.

 

Veteran intercessors with thunder hammers and assault bolters get places pretty quick, and hit hard as hell. I have had good luck using gene wrought might on them, as I get a ton of attacks on the charge and I can still use my Forged in Battle chapter tactic on the rest of the rolls.

 

The eliminators chip sounds off nasty characters or outright kill weaker ones in the back lines. The las fusil ones punch very hard but will be the first target so I hide them then pop out first turn to shoot.

 

Suppressors continue to be a favorite unit of mine. The range of their guns let’s you shoot things that can’t shoot you back, and doing 2 damage at ap-3 in Devastator Doctrine is awesome. Towards the end of the game their 12” move is great for grabbing late objectives.

 

I am happy with my army and I feel primaris finally have enough to be as strong as I wanted them to be.

[Mandragola]

I think it's significant that Iron Hands suppressors are so great. They're a very good pick for a fast attack slot in a brigade, which you might well want to take. That pushes the army overall up somewhat.

 

For Crimson Fists there's Pedro. He's not Primaris, but I'm making myself a Primaris one based on Calgar. He gives really great buffs to an infantry-heavy force, especially to things like aggressors and intercessors. His aura got improved so it now affects everyone in a unit within 6" (not just models within 6") so it has far greater coverage. 

 

I tend to think Fists will be the best all-round army. The main thing is that they bring some anti-tank, which is otherwise severely lacking in Primaris infantry. The alternative would be to play WS or RG and try to beat up tanks in melee, using aggressors.

[RandomMarine]

 

 

 

Tbh I quite like a IH horde list built around stalker intercessors,Heavy hellblasters,feirros, gravis chapter master and 12 aggressors. Its surprisingly mobile with the gravis units acting as the hammer, the gravis units alone is something like 32 T5 3+ 5++ 6+++ wounds and a ton of shots at bs2 rerolling all hits and god help anything it charges

What is giving all these units BS2?

Feirros, much like Tor Garadon, has a Signum Ability allowing one nearby unit to shoot at BS2+

That's only one unit though. Where are these 32(wouldn't it be 36?) T5 durable wounds with every unit getting BS2?

A single 6 man aggressors squad + ferrios is a butt ton of shots, but I didn't word it very well so I get the misunderstanding

[Lemondish]

 

 

 

 

Tbh I quite like a IH horde list built around stalker intercessors,Heavy hellblasters,feirros, gravis chapter master and 12 aggressors. Its surprisingly mobile with the gravis units acting as the hammer, the gravis units alone is something like 32 T5 3+ 5++ 6+++ wounds and a ton of shots at bs2 rerolling all hits and god help anything it charges

What is giving all these units BS2?

Feirros, much like Tor Garadon, has a Signum Ability allowing one nearby unit to shoot at BS2+

That's only one unit though. Where are these 32(wouldn't it be 36?) T5 durable wounds with every unit getting BS2?

A single 6 man aggressors squad + ferrios is a butt ton of shots, but I didn't word it very well so I get the misunderstanding

Ah, yes, that is certainly true. I'm eager to do the same with Tor where it's even more shots thanks to exploding 6s!

[RandomMarine]

4 + tor in a dakka replulsor will be solid

[Riddlesworth]

I've been playing around with this. I think the choices are between an IF gunline and a more mobile UM force. if you're not taking a bunch of vehicles with the IH tech available, it feels like a waste of the supplement, whereas for pure primaris infantry, UM and IF offer more.

 

IF:

• Assault/Rapid fire intercessors, Aggressors and bolter Inceptors generate a LOT of hits to drown an enemy in dakka as a forward moving or screening force. The volume of hits may even be enough to overcome the lack of AP for not being in Tactical doctrine
• Suppressors (S7, AP-3, 3D) and Fusil eliminators (S8, AP-4, 4D) become very effective tank killers in Devestator doctrine (with secondary stalker bolter intercessors)
• Your army gets into position under the covering fire of suppressors and eliminators, then attempts to win the shooting battle while in Devestator doctrine, moving into Tactical doctrine later in the game when the vehicles are dead.
• You are locked into the IF chapter tactic as exploding 6s on bolters is not available to successors.

 

UM:

• Tactical doctrine increases effective threat range of rapid fire intercessors and aggressors. Force tends to be more mobile with less hits but higher AP. Also allows suppressors to take advantage of their mobility to reposition on cover heavy boards without losing fire output
• Stratagems make flexing inbetween doctrines for individual squads for the right tool at the right time (in Tactical doctrine? put your suppressors or eliminators in Devestator for the turn). Also makes the use of Plasma Inceptors powerful due to Sons of Guilliman. In a pure primaris infantry army, inceptors are probably the best delivery mechanism for plasma as hellblasters will get shot and die before reaching rapid fire without transports
• Defensive focus is an outstanding stratagem
• Best if you want to do a successor chapter with custom traits as the UM chapter trait is merely OK.  

 

IF doctrine helps fill the anti tank hole in the primaris infantry arsenal. UM gives you more flexibility but you'll struggle a bit more at range against the vehicle stacked armies. Its worth mentioning that with the custom traits, you get access to things like stealthy and stalwart which are both great for primarily infantry armies.

 

The constant unit solid choices across the 2 armies are intercessors (rapid fire for UM, assault for IF), aggressors, suppressors (better in IF, more mobile in UM), inceptors (bolters for IF, plasma for UM)

 

One trait that closes the gap for UM successors is bolter fusilade. re-rolling 1s doesn't quite catch up to exploding 6s, but UM primaris like to live in the Tactical doctrine, so the higher AP pushes more wounds through, dependant on cover.

 

On the flip side, its also worth considering CF instead of IF because primaris are more likely to be run MSU, which will generate better hit rolls, which negates something like bolter fusilade.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Riddlesworth

[Marshal van Trapp]

So in regards to that, I was thinking CF because the ignoring cover doesn't really make a huge difference but I feel like the +1 to hit against any units with 5+ more models would really help out against horde style armies

[Riddlesworth]

So in regards to that, I was thinking CF because the ignoring cover doesn't really make a huge difference but I feel like the +1 to hit against any units with 5+ more models would really help out against horde style armies

 

I think I prefer CF over IF. They get the same stratagems and doctrines and nothing in the relics or special characters blows me out of the water as a must have.

 

I'm still on the fence between CF and UM. If you're including all the units that can tote assault cannons, heavy bolters, autocannons etc. (centurions being the one that comes up most often), I think CF wins out, because when you hit that tyranid or ork horde, you've packed in so much multi shot weaponry you'll be fine. If you're going pure primaris the decision is less clear for me. While suppressors and las fusil eliminators are KILLER against profiles primaris traditionally have a little issue with, when you do get that infantry horde, or nids, you don't have the massed heavy bolter type fire. The ability to pack in custom chapter tactics tips me over the edge - bolter fusilade and stealthy has been a good balance for me so far. I do need to playtest the CF tactics though, but my favourite plasma inceptors will probably not make the cut in favour of suppressors and eliminators