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Valdor: Birth of the Imperium


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#26
MegaVolt87

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Probably something along the lines of "wow, this just sounds like he's reciting that book God Delusion by Richard Dawkins"?

Sorry, not a fan of Last Church, just sounded like fanfic of some new teen atheist. Instead of going into the actual reasons for the Imperial Truth (there are powers out there that use religion for their own nefarious purposes, by denying them worship we weaken them), the Emperor just parrots the usual "but you can't prove God exists therefore he doesn't, checkmate theists!"


Yes it was lazy writing. It tried to attach itself to nu atheism which was all the rage at the time. I’m not generally a fan of my fiction trying to reflect today’s political trends.

 

 

I didn't see it that way but its a good point. I saw it more as him not wanting to even really hint at individual sentient powers even as a possibility to people who don't know how the warp/ chaos works. Those that do either he recruits them if they are not corrupted or just destroys them if they are/ likely to fall later. Otherwise, using other understood established concepts to debate/ explain makes sense. Also I think Valdor is switched on enough to work out why psykers aren't in the custodes, so we won't see much there. 


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#27
Lord_Caerolion

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I mean, you're not wrong, it's just that the story comes across as like something written by a kid who just found out about Dawkins. It's exactly the same old tired cliches, with the priest there as nothing more than to give the most feeble of arguments for the Emperor to respond back with "yes, but you can't prove it, therefore religion is stupid and you're wrong, because science". It's basically nothing more than the Cliff-notes of The God Delusion.


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#28
Angel_of_Blood

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Started reading it, not too far in but already come across my first new lore tidbit that’s very interesting.

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#29
Marshal Loss

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Can't say I'm too fond of that. Look forward to getting my hands on this down the road though


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#30
MegaVolt87

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Sounds like the Emperor just had the organization in mind, minus the ideal forces involved. Good base, bad parts evidently. 


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#31
MegaVolt87

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I mean, you're not wrong, it's just that the story comes across as like something written by a kid who just found out about Dawkins. It's exactly the same old tired cliches, with the priest there as nothing more than to give the most feeble of arguments for the Emperor to respond back with "yes, but you can't prove it, therefore religion is stupid and you're wrong, because science". It's basically nothing more than the Cliff-notes of The God Delusion.

 

The Emperor kinda always modulated himself based off to whom he was speaking, he never voluntarily tips his true hand/ thoughts unless he is in a corner is how I saw it. Maybe he was purposefully doing it in a blase way in the hopes the priest actually knew about the warp and chaos proper, thus outing himself. Even then, the Emperor was still interested in the man regardless, hence the offer. I still get where you are coming from though, I am probably over analyzing at this point. 


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#32
mc warhammer

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I mean, you're not wrong, it's just that the story comes across as like something written by a kid who just found out about Dawkins. It's exactly the same old tired cliches, with the priest there as nothing more than to give the most feeble of arguments for the Emperor to respond back with "yes, but you can't prove it, therefore religion is stupid and you're wrong, because science". It's basically nothing more than the Cliff-notes of The God Delusion.


not that i dont agree, but bottom line science/atheism essentially just boils down to that, doesn’t it?

Sounds like the Emperor just had the organization in mind, minus the ideal forces involved. Good base, bad parts evidently.


could have been his test run for the eventual real deal. how does this mix work?

it’d be interesting to know if there were similar issues played out with the test
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#33
MegaVolt87

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Sounds like the Emperor just had the organization in mind, minus the ideal forces involved. Good base, bad parts evidently.


could have been his test run for the eventual real deal. how does this mix work?

it’d be interesting to know if there were similar issues played out with the test

 

 

I think it might come down to what the thunder warriors actually are- proto astartes or knock off build custodes. Current combat power level is what, Custodes > Thunder Warrior > Astartes ? I always felt their prowess near a Custodes, plus the Custodes likely did most of the culling, Legionaries mainly perimeter security instead. I don't recall any Terran vets remembering killing Thunder Warriors at that time in the books. The unique legion functions maybe exclusively due to limited combat style adjustments, ie thunder warriors only being smart enough to do one very well. Legionaries being mentally stable enough to be flexible in combat, though Emperor still sees value in "signature warfare" of individualized legions. 


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#34
mc warhammer

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Sounds like the Emperor just had the organization in mind, minus the ideal forces involved. Good base, bad parts evidently.

could have been his test run for the eventual real deal. how does this mix work?

it’d be interesting to know if there were similar issues played out with the test

I think it might come down to what the thunder warriors actually are- proto astartes or knock off build custodes. Current combat power level is what, Custodes > Thunder Warrior > Astartes ? I always felt their prowess near a Custodes, plus the Custodes likely did most of the culling, Legionaries mainly perimeter security instead. I don't recall any Terran vets remembering killing Thunder Warriors at that time in the books. The unique legion functions maybe exclusively due to limited combat style adjustments, ie thunder warriors only being smart enough to do one very well. Legionaries being mentally stable enough to be flexible in combat, though Emperor still sees value in "signature warfare" of individualized legions.

it could go any way, though i think i’d prefer thunder warriors to be their own thing

the prowess is an afterthought for me. and once you’re at that trans human level it seems a bit silly to have too many tiers. though i like the astartes being “superior” in a “jack of all trades” kinda way

are thunder warriors not mentally enhanced as well? i know the guys in tOD were struggling somewhat mentally but i thought that was due to deteriorating not that they were brutes. the leader was confident he could work with gene seed after all

as far as i recall, i think warhounds are the only recorded astartes who hunted thunderwarriors
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#35
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I think the very fact thunder warriors deteriorate like that mentally at all seems to further support they can't attain a jack of all trades mastery of warfare, hence the necessity of specializing. Also confidence and intelligence are not necessarily mutually exclusive/ linked either in regards to mental capacity. eg the confident idiot/ brave fool, the guarded intellectual etc. 


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#36
mc warhammer

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no doubt, dunning krugers exist

but deterioration after some period of time doesn’t mean they couldn’t have been exceptional at their peak
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#37
Angel_of_Blood

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Well finished it. Expanded thoughts later, but to address some of the above.

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#38
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Well finished it. Expanded thoughts later, but to address some of the above.

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#39
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#40
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dang
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#41
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Mind blown. I must read this.
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#42
b1soul

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@ Angel of Blood

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#43
Kelborn

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Is it just about what you've posted or does it focus on the Imperium itself, politics, state, outfleshing the era, etc.?

Edited by Kelborn, 31 October 2019 - 06:10 AM.

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#44
Sandlemad

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The idea of

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#45
Angel_of_Blood

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@ Angel of Blood

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Is it just about what you've posted or does it focus on the Imperium itself, politics, state, outfleshing the era, etc.?


That is the end result, but it does through that go into the new politics of the Imperium. There's a good bit of world building for what Terra is like at that time and what it was like.

Edited by Kelborn, 31 October 2019 - 12:57 PM.

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#46
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#47
Angel_of_Blood

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#48
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#49
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#50
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