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My two strongest Space Marine Lists @2k


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#76
antique_nova

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The reivers are not there to kill, just tie up enemy units, additional road blocks and contest/capture objectives. You need some boots in the mid field when your scouts are dead. They help to also cover smash characters who advance up. Threaten enemy back lines too when they open up by tying up important units.

 

I already have enough artillery and they were overkill. This list doesn't really have any weaknesses and it's pretty strong all around. Me and my gaming buddy expect to see a lot of lists like this very soon. Because people have their eyes on reivers for the LVO.

 

EDIT: I replaced reivers with impulsors, because they are generally harder to kill and block LOS better, don't need to rely on deepstriking to get somewhere and can slow down enemy assaults much better.


Edited by antique_nova, 24 January 2020 - 07:25 AM.

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#77
Marauder112

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I think switching reivers to something else like impulsors is better.

It had a lot of different units and that is always something I like. The only thing I'd prefer would be an extra smash captain (I like having to so I can spread them to guard my whole battle line or let one suicide kill something scary and still have one in reserve :-).

But that personal preference and play style.

I don't own impulors but are 1 or 2 big enough to block the enemies line of sight of the devastator cents?

#78
antique_nova

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Having two smash characters is enough. A 3rd is just a bit excessive. :)

 

Yes they are, providing that the enemy isn't in a building that overlooks the battlefield or is a flyer or is much taller than an impulsor. They generally won't be able to see the centurions behind the impulsors. Also, being able to see someone's feet from underneath a skimmer vehicle doesn't really count, because you'll likely never be able to shoot under there.


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#79
Marauder112

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Two smash captains would be enough indeed. But this list had one. The other is on foot and doesn't bring the same punch. Unless you include the chaplain but I prefer him for smaller targets or for a combined charge.

It's a big plus that the impulsors are good a providing cover. They are also not expensive. If you had the points, would you give them the 4++ against shooting?

#80
antique_nova

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Two smash captains would be enough indeed. But this list had one. The other is on foot and doesn't bring the same punch. Unless you include the chaplain but I prefer him for smaller targets or for a combined charge.

It's a big plus that the impulsors are good a providing cover. They are also not expensive. If you had the points, would you give them the 4++ against shooting?

Actually, I said two smash characters, not two smash captains. msn-wink.gif

 

I'd say that yes if you had the points, but theirs nothing to take the points from that would better for those shields. So, just take them off. Put it this way, if you had anti-tank weapons. What would you rather shoot at if you could draw LOS to all, because if they aren't blocking LOS, they'll be blocking the enemy's DS points or foot paths.

 

EDIT: Oh and I've changed the list slightly, after watching the LVO, because I wanted to have more units holding onto mid table objectives.


Edited by antique_nova, 27 January 2020 - 05:21 AM.

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#81
Marauder112

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I just tried the new 3th list (with a few changes). I had a battle against 2000 Pts of iron Hands.

 

He had:

-Master Tech on a bike with the iron stone

-2 lieutenants with jumppacks

-Chaplain dreadnought (warlord) with targeting protocols and lascannons.

-Thunderfire cannon

-1 mortis dreadnought with 4 lascannons (he made it a character).

-3 invictor warsuits

-1 repulsor executioner with the big laser cannon

-3x 5 scouts

-3 interceptors

 

Like I said I used the 3th list. The only changes I made: I dropped one unit of intercessors for an extra devastator centurion model and switched the chaplain for another captain (with a master crafted fist).

 

He chose the side and deployment en I got the first turn. The first turn was brutal. My thunderfire cannons killed 2 units of scouts (I did had to shoot an extra time to achieve this), The snipers killed one lieutenant. With the rest of my army and the +1 to wound centurions I managed to destroy the 3 interceptors!

Note: I deployed 2 of the 3 suppressors on the board for the extra firepower.

In his first turn his whole army, after seeing what the centurions could do, shot at them. I popped the once a battle extra armour save stratagem and because they were in cover, had a 0+ armour save. This turned out to make a big difference because he only killed 2 models and wounded a thirth (I did CP re-roll one armour save into a succes). His mortis dreadnought also destroyed one impulsor. I used both of my impulors to block the line of sight of some of his models.

 

In my second turn the 3th unit of suppressors came in. In that turn I moved the impulsor forward to block his path and destroyed his 3 warsuits. My snipers wounded his master Tech who was still out of line of sight.

In his turn 2 he took some revenge. He killed 1,5 unit of suppressors, my scouts and 3 of the 4 remaining centurions.

 

In my turn 3 I could target half of his characters and dreadnoughts because I had killed all his warsuits, interceptors and scouts. So I managed to destroy the mortis dreadnougth and his master tech. I also wounded the warlord chaplain dread.

In his turn 3 he marched up and killed all my suppressors, 2 sniper models, my last centurion model. His executioner also killed 1 whirlwind with his main cannon.

 

In my turn 4 I succeded to kill his last lieutenant and kill the wounded chaplain dreadnought. I charged the executioner with my captain that had the master crafted fist. I rolled bad and really missed my whirlwind of rage, He took only 4 wounds off.

In his turn 4 he fell back with the executioner and shot my captain into a bloody pulp. His thunderfire cannon shot down an eliminator a turn (getting a cover save makes a difference).

 

Turn 5 saw my 3 thunderfire cannons rolling hot and destroying the wounded executioner! My remaining eliminators took the last 3 wounds of his cannon techmarine and my whirlwind also decided to roll hot and destroy the thunderfire cannon as well. He had nothing left at this point. I won 11 to 3 VP. We played with the objective cards.

 

What I like about Imperial Fists:

- Not giving cover saves against armies with armour like Space Marines.

- Heavy Bolter devastor centurions are godly with IF. I don't think any other faction can make devastor centurions that good against so many things.

- The extra armour save and the +1 to wound vehicles stratagems. The feel no pain one can be useful to but haven't tried it so far.

- The extra damage from heavy weapon against vehicles is great. Makes so much difference.

 

What I missed:

- Some combat killing power. I had only one captain that could hurt vehicles. The unit of intercessors with a fist sergeant were killed as soon as they stepped out of the impulsor. Nothing else in the army could really hurt him in combat. My other jumppack captain had the teeth of terra which is great but not so much against armour.

- I got used to having units with Master artisians, whirlwind of rage and the big fists assault centurions have. I did missed these elements. Especially Master artisians on my snipers and characters. But you get other things in return so I guess they did a good job here so you have to choose.

I'm playing with the idee of swapping the traditional IF chapter tactics for Master artisians and something else (maybe stealthy?). The ignore cover is good against Space Marines but against other armies they don't add much. The exploding bolter rule they get is the hard part. I like this on the centurions but perhaps they are better with the other benefits. I really have to think about this. What do you think?



#82
antique_nova

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I just tried the new 3th list (with a few changes). I had a battle against 2000 Pts of iron Hands.

 

He had:

-Master Tech on a bike with the iron stone

-2 lieutenants with jumppacks

-Chaplain dreadnought (warlord) with targeting protocols and lascannons.

-Thunderfire cannon

-1 mortis dreadnought with 4 lascannons (he made it a character).

-3 invictor warsuits

-1 repulsor executioner with the big laser cannon

-3x 5 scouts

-3 interceptors

 

Like I said I used the 3th list. The only changes I made: I dropped one unit of intercessors for an extra devastator centurion model and switched the chaplain for another captain (with a master crafted fist).

 

He chose the side and deployment en I got the first turn. The first turn was brutal. My thunderfire cannons killed 2 units of scouts (I did had to shoot an extra time to achieve this), The snipers killed one lieutenant. With the rest of my army and the +1 to wound centurions I managed to destroy the 3 interceptors!

Note: I deployed 2 of the 3 suppressors on the board for the extra firepower.

In his first turn his whole army, after seeing what the centurions could do, shot at them. I popped the once a battle extra armour save stratagem and because they were in cover, had a 0+ armour save. This turned out to make a big difference because he only killed 2 models and wounded a thirth (I did CP re-roll one armour save into a succes). His mortis dreadnought also destroyed one impulsor. I used both of my impulors to block the line of sight of some of his models.

 

In my second turn the 3th unit of suppressors came in. In that turn I moved the impulsor forward to block his path and destroyed his 3 warsuits. My snipers wounded his master Tech who was still out of line of sight.

In his turn 2 he took some revenge. He killed 1,5 unit of suppressors, my scouts and 3 of the 4 remaining centurions.

 

In my turn 3 I could target half of his characters and dreadnoughts because I had killed all his warsuits, interceptors and scouts. So I managed to destroy the mortis dreadnougth and his master tech. I also wounded the warlord chaplain dread.

In his turn 3 he marched up and killed all my suppressors, 2 sniper models, my last centurion model. His executioner also killed 1 whirlwind with his main cannon.

 

In my turn 4 I succeded to kill his last lieutenant and kill the wounded chaplain dreadnought. I charged the executioner with my captain that had the master crafted fist. I rolled bad and really missed my whirlwind of rage, He took only 4 wounds off.

In his turn 4 he fell back with the executioner and shot my captain into a bloody pulp. His thunderfire cannon shot down an eliminator a turn (getting a cover save makes a difference).

 

Turn 5 saw my 3 thunderfire cannons rolling hot and destroying the wounded executioner! My remaining eliminators took the last 3 wounds of his cannon techmarine and my whirlwind also decided to roll hot and destroy the thunderfire cannon as well. He had nothing left at this point. I won 11 to 3 VP. We played with the objective cards.

 

What I like about Imperial Fists:

- Not giving cover saves against armies with armour like Space Marines.

- Heavy Bolter devastor centurions are godly with IF. I don't think any other faction can make devastor centurions that good against so many things.

- The extra armour save and the +1 to wound vehicles stratagems. The feel no pain one can be useful to but haven't tried it so far.

- The extra damage from heavy weapon against vehicles is great. Makes so much difference.

 

What I missed:

- Some combat killing power. I had only one captain that could hurt vehicles. The unit of intercessors with a fist sergeant were killed as soon as they stepped out of the impulsor. Nothing else in the army could really hurt him in combat. My other jumppack captain had the teeth of terra which is great but not so much against armour.

- I got used to having units with Master artisians, whirlwind of rage and the big fists assault centurions have. I did missed these elements. Especially Master artisians on my snipers and characters. But you get other things in return so I guess they did a good job here so you have to choose.

I'm playing with the idee of swapping the traditional IF chapter tactics for Master artisians and something else (maybe stealthy?). The ignore cover is good against Space Marines but against other armies they don't add much. The exploding bolter rule they get is the hard part. I like this on the centurions but perhaps they are better with the other benefits. I really have to think about this. What do you think?

 

Hard to comment, but I was tweaking the list again last night and came up with an extreme version of it and honestly, I don't think my current 3rd list could handle it. However, it contains next to NO ASSAULT UNITS. Can you handle that?

 

Ignore cover might not work so well against other armies, but it's simply too good to pass up in general. Coupled with everything else, the extra damage vs vehicles and extra shots on an unmodified 6 to hit. I was thinking that the centurions died too early for my likely and yes they were fire magnets and did a fair share of damage, but they are normally the only thing my opponent can see, even with impulsors blocking LOS, but they can't block everything, because they have to stay open for the centurions to draw LOS to the enemy. So the return fire will kill quite a few.

 

Remember, the best armour is the one you never have to use, goes the old saying in war. That being said, I've updated the 3rd list again. I wouldn't change the chapter tactics, it's not worth it, but your arty becomes useless then compared to the IF.


Edited by antique_nova, 28 January 2020 - 05:15 PM.

Competitive list builder who lives, breathes and plays in Grand Tournaments.

 

My current strongest lists:

 

http://www.bolterand...arine-lists-2k/


#83
Marauder112

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The +1 damage against vehicles would remain as I'm playing as a successor imperial fists right?

Right now im still using the older version of number 2 list because I like the units.

I do think the newest 3th list is better then the older 3th lists. But only when you have enough scenery to hide behind. How do you hide the artillery? Because my experience is that you can hide 2 whirlwinds and 3 thunderfire cannons okey, the third whirlwind is harder to hide and some units can, most of the time, draw a line of sight to it. But now there are 3 more artillery tanks to hide. Or do you park some of them in plain sight?

#84
antique_nova

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Only if they're all from the same successor IF chapter.

 

Here's the thing, the relics only shoot twice if they don't move, but sometimes you want to move and lose 18 shots is okay, because you reroll all with your buffs. So, technically, your shortest ranged arty is 60" effective range. 48" minimum standing still. Most enemies don't even have the guns to target units so far away.

 

If they deploy first, chances are I'm going to deploy so far away that you can't reach me in time and/or behind enough cover that you can't target enough important units to kill in turn 1 and then when I return fire, you lose half or even more of your army that can hurt me in your 2nd turn, your 2nd turn becomes useless and you get wiped out in the 3rd turn or effectively game over then.

 

Here's the other thing, will you target the whirlwinds you want to target? Because the relic scorpius's can hide behind the normal whirlwinds and the return fire will kill whatever killed the original whirlwind. I'm okay with losing 3 normal whirlwinds at any stage of the game, as long as the rest are pulling out shots. You need to know what's okay to sacrifice or offer up and what I see is a good trade.

 

I think you know as well as I do, that list 2 (any version) stands no chance vs list 3, no matter who goes first.


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#85
Marauder112

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Yeah I would make my whole army from the same successor chapter to get it. But strangely 1 thing I like from the second list is that you have good things of 2 chapters. Raven guard deep striking assault cents and imperial fists artillery. Everytime I try 1 chapter I feel like missing out on a cool thing.

And yes, the new 3th list would probably win against a lot of lists. I just like the 2th lists more because of it having more different things. I do like this 3th list the most compared to the older 3th lists. I will try to test it as well. But in reality I don't think I would buy 3 of the relic whirlwinds (aren't they from forgeworld and very expensive?).

#86
antique_nova

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Yeah I would make my whole army from the same successor chapter to get it. But strangely 1 thing I like from the second list is that you have good things of 2 chapters. Raven guard deep striking assault cents and imperial fists artillery. Everytime I try 1 chapter I feel like missing out on a cool thing.

And yes, the new 3th list would probably win against a lot of lists. I just like the 2th lists more because of it having more different things. I do like this 3th list the most compared to the older 3th lists. I will try to test it as well. But in reality I don't think I would buy 3 of the relic whirlwinds (aren't they from forgeworld and very expensive?).

£180.

 

The 3rd army costs about £500 with discounts. The 2nd army costs like £400 max. I think.


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My current strongest lists:

 

http://www.bolterand...arine-lists-2k/


#87
Marauder112

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180 for the 3 relic whirlwinds? I need to battlescribe their stats again because I forgot them :P




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