New player - First Kill Teams for 40K

[Dermax]

Intro - feel free to skip, just introducing myself

 

So almost brand new player here. Only a few weeks ago, I started thinking about picking up a new hobby to get me through the long, cold winter. I've always been aware of Warhammer 40K, but recently I really dove in head first. I bought the Rules, some codices, watched a crap ton of YouTube videos, and decided to try my hand at putting together an army. I'm pretty sure that the Deathwatch isn't necessarily a "noob friendly" army, but I really like the idea of an elite force where every model has a backstory - I like fluff and painting black armor. For new players a pretty common refrain seems to be, "Play what you'd like to paint." So here I am!

 

As a new player, I don't have any models that I *need* to put on the table (or any models, yet, for that matter). I would like to buy Primaris only (apart from a Watch Master), since they sort of seem like the future... no offense intended to the hardcore, old school marines that have been holding the line for thirty years! I don't think I'll ever hit the Tournament Circuit; matter of fact with the closest games about an hour away, it might be a while before I even start casual play. With that said, I do like to theorycraft and as I know I'll get attached to models that I work on, I want to start off on the right foot. I'd like to start with a few solid Fortis Kill Teams to be the core of my future army. 

 

PS I've quadruple checked my math, but if something is off - let me know, so I can try to figure out where it all went wrong!

 

The idea - nothing really revolutionary

 

Kill Team 1

Intercessor Sergeant w/Auto Bolt Rifle & Chainsword

x4 Intercessors w/Auto Bolt Rifles (+1 Auxiliary Grenade Launcher) 

x4 Aggressors Stock

x1 Inceptor Stock  

Total 285 

 

Kill Team 2

Same as Kill Team 1

Total 285

 

Kill Team 3

Intercessor Sergeant Stock

x4 Intercessors Stock 

x5 Hellblasters Stock

Total 255

 

825 Total points - Throw two Primaris Watch Captains in and you've got a Battalion Detachment just south of 1000 points, around 990 depending on Watch Captain loadouts. In my own mind this is a decent core to build a force around. Teams 1 and 2 are rocking and rolling, going for 18" to unleash hell - picturing vengeance rounds on the Auto Bolt rifles - with Toughness 5 on a mixed unit. Team 3 is more squishy, but cheaper than a pure Hellblaster squad and able to soak a few casualties without reducing the plasma output. I'm also thinking that next 1000 points will include some Dreadnoughts and/or Repulsors and a Watch Master to add heavy firepower and stop Team 3 from getting targeted straight out of the gate.

 

That's only 30 bodies on the field not counting the Captains. Do you guys think more warm bodies are needed? Again this is just 1000 out of a planned 2000 point army. If I was to add a Kill Team 4 should it be a copy of Team 3? Something with Reivers geared towards close combat for teleporting into the enemy deployment zone? Something smaller that could fit in a Repulsor? Just some normal old Intercessors?  

 

It's not every day that you get to plan out your very first army! I'd appreciate any suggestions that you guys have on the Kill Teams. Going forward, I'm looking forward to fleshing out the "second half" of the army!

[Qui-Gon]

Depending on the opponent you're going to get torn apart...or you'll tear him apart. Its the nature of the game.

I myself use a pair of Intergressor units and they do a lot of good things.

On the matter of the Interblaster unit, swap a blaster for a plasma inceptor. The fall back and shoot options are worth it.

But points will be points.

[Dermax]

Thanks, I appreciate your input!

 

Since you run Intergressor units do you find it better to run max 10 units or a something smaller? I keep thinking that dropping down to x3 Aggressors instead of x4 in two Teams - although dropping the Toughness down until the first Intercessor dies - would almost pay for a stock unit of 5 Intercessors by itself. Four slightly weaker teams vs three slightly strongest teams - I guess it really does come down to what we'd be playing against.

 

It's a little early to be thinking about the "second half" of the army - especially with Chapter Approved maybe dropping in December, but I'm enamored of the idea of running two Repulsor Executioners with a Watch Master. At 778 points that might be impossible. I just worry that one would be an absolute bullet magnet. I'll definitely need some big guns somewhere.

[Mr4Minutes]

I wouldn’t drop the 1 Aggressor. Like you said, you loose that T5 until one Interc dies, but you could also loose half the unit at the same time. If a large amount of higher damage shots come thru all at once you’d take them at T4. This comes into play if your getting shot at by units of plasma weapons or battle cannons etc.

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Great seeing a new player jump into an army with both feet, I've been trying to do DW for years before the codex came out as my own character chapter so now I've allot of pointless devastators and assault vets/ centurions. (In 7th when Skyhammer was a thing, 5 turn 1 drop pods was a real hammer to the face of the eldar... And grav was god)

 

I run units like this myself but if it's a big points commitment which it is it needs to multi task, give the Primaris Intercessors auto bolt rifles to help them put out more shots and move more quickly.

Toughness 5 on the unit really make them soak up enemy fire, especially in cover with 25 wounds on a 2+ save across the unit, plus the aggressors allow the unit to advance and fire with no negative to bs so hitting on 3's with whatever Reroll bubbles you have and moving up to 12 inches a turn, more if you stretch the Inceptor out at the far end of the unit,

 

If adding other kill teams I think it would be a benefit to take a storm Bolter vet, 10 man squad with terminator with SB and power sword, stock biker and vanguard vet and deepstrike them to bring the pain where it's needed and getting those hard to reach objectives.

 

Really with your army it depends what you want to take for cool factor and what you want to work, sadly because we have the fewest options but most customisability with units we really need to plan our armies

Edited October 30, 2019 by Duke Danse Macabre

[Qui-Gon]

Thanks, I appreciate your input!

 

Since you run Intergressor units do you find it better to run max 10 units or a something smaller? I keep thinking that dropping down to x3 Aggressors instead of x4 in two Teams - although dropping the Toughness down until the first Intercessor dies - would almost pay for a stock unit of 5 Intercessors by itself. Four slightly weaker teams vs three slightly strongest teams - I guess it really does come down to what we'd be playing against.

 

It's a little early to be thinking about the "second half" of the army - especially with Chapter Approved maybe dropping in December, but I'm enamored of the idea of running two Repulsor Executioners with a Watch Master. At 778 points that might be impossible. I just worry that one would be an absolute bullet magnet. I'll definitely need some big guns somewhere.

 

As has been mentioned, keep 10 man and the 4 aggressor and 1 inceptor models in the same unit for the whole unit to have T5.

 

Here is another piece of logic from experience: if you ever intend to use stratagems on a unit, better to use it on as big a unit as you can over using it on a smaller one (circumstances notwithstanding). Better ROI on the investment.

 

As such, I never use stratagems that affect a unit on a 5 man stalker team, but I will always be tempted to on a 10 man interblaster team.

 

By the way, if you want small support units, consider the stalker team. With the update to the damage, it makes that gun legitimately scary since it has access to Hellfire shells.

[Black Knight]

You have the gist of it, although just realise the Primaris Full squads are pricey and should be taken sparingly. One of each plasma and Aggressor is usually a good base but having two Aggressor+ heavy squads will mean you can take less of the "Fun stuff".

 

You have three teleports you should be using so try to have them filled with the "I have a specific Job" squads and then fill up the battalion with 5 man intercessors(Snipers are not that bad now with the 2 Damage) for some back/mid field capture. Also again it is against your rules but a single jump Captain lets you basically teleport in 5 squads(The captain and the Beacon Angelis).

 

If you need some more AT(Anti-Tank) and you want dreadnoughts I would suggest skipping the Redemptor as its not that good compared to our old faithful Venerable ones(less Balistic skill and sub-par weapons against armour). You did say no old marines which is a fine decision to make but I would then suggest to ignore the Dreads and go strait to the Executioners(With the babysitting Watchmaster).

 

Since the recent upgrade to the Assault Bolters, the line between old and new marines is far more grey. The only problem with Primaris now is the lack of "Special/Heavy" weapons in the teams and no a grenade launcher is not special at all Also with examples such as the Jump Characters they do offer a powerful service that Primaris still don't have.

 

Edit: Acknowledgement of all the points made from the people before me, read their posts after

Edited October 30, 2019 by Black_Knight

[Dermax]

I really want to thank you all for the feedback. There's a lot to process, but I'm really enjoying it. As mentioned in the first post, I'm building the army from scratch - so along with future point planning, I'm also thinking of how many sets of models to buy and how to outfit them. Points will change, but your first model builds are forever! 

 

Because of the way that the books lay out the Deathwatch organization chart, I'm looking to run four Kill Teams total. I think my first plan of running two Intergressor Teams is pretty expensive while also not putting out a ton of SIA. As I start to explore other armies - just looking to see how I'm going to kill them, Inquisitor - I think two Intergressors Teams may be overkill, when I could buy an extra Repulsor or two Dreads for 40 points more.

 

My working plan - 

 

Kill Team 1 remains as in the first post - 285 points.

Toughness 5 with all perks of a Kill Team apart from the poor old Reivers.

 

Kill Team 2 either x10 Intercessors w/Bolt or 8x Intercessors w/Auto and 1x Aggressor - 180 or 189 depending.

Envisioning this as Mech. Infantry on a Repulsor or combat squad as needed.

 

Kill Team 3 swaps one Hellblaster for an Inceptor w/Plasma - 281 points.

Cost goes up, but can Fallback and fire if needed.

 

Kill Team 4 is 1x Aggressor with 5x up to 9x Intercessors w/Stalker - 127 up to 199.

Reach out and touch someone at 42" while being able to move without hit roll penalties.

 

It's all hypothetical at this point but I think I can run 2 Repulsor Executioners and a Repulsor plus the required 2 HQ with the leftover points. 8 CP.

 

Appreciate the feedback for sure - I know I'll need at least 2 or 3 boxes of Intercessors to start with!

[Qui-Gon]

Like you, I like to run my Deathwatch around the core narrative piece which is the full watch company.

My current "all" primaris list has its structure broken down like so:

2 ten-man Intergressor units
1 ten-man Interblaster unit

2 five-man stalker rifle units (narratively just always combat squaded for flexibility)

 

I then have a primaris scale veteran unit made of models formed around reiver bodies escorting a watch master in a drop pod.

[Black Knight]

All I can suggest with your Kill teams is two things:

 

Add an Inceptor(Plasma or Bolter), almost every army has a way to get you into CC, having the option to fallback and shoot will probably tip the course of the battle. I have seen too many good shooty teams nullified by a pack of cheep chaff. The Aggressors are strong but can't do anything against 20-40 gribblies(Easiest way to stop that team for 2-3 turns).

 

Splitting the two 10mans into four 5mans with gain you a second Battalion and a lot of CP. It also allows you to tactically move them better at no reduction in damage. You want bodies to hide the Aggressors and Plasma not the normal Intercessors.

[Dermax]

I've been trying awful hard to avoid "noob questions", but are the extra 5 CPs of double battalion worth having to take two additional HQs?

 

Going through stratagems - especially with the teleportation - I can see how they can be pretty powerful if used correctly, but...

 

Adding two more of the dead cheapest options for HQs; Chaplains - that don't get the new Space Marine litanies yet - is 144 points. In an army where every point counts that's three more Inceptors, eight more intercessors, or half a Repulsor. I'm expecting that building and painting the Kill Teams will take me to Chapter Approved and beyond, but as of right now I can't really see any options - especially Primaris options - that are worth potentially losing a third Repulsor.

 

I suppose if I was going to go "semi-competitive" I could always grab a few Astra Militarum for a cheap CP battery. Having zero Psyker defense is something an additional HQ could rectify as well.  I'll be interested to see if Deathwatch gets access to any of the new toys with Chapter Approved or Psychic Awakening.

[Mr4Minutes]

That extra CP can be pretty critical depending on your strategy. We don’t have many good strats, but the best ones are expensive.

 

Pre game you could spend 3 on DS units and 1 on an extra relic(for me usually the Tome and the Beacon). If you’ve got a single battalion you’re start with 8cp and now your at 4cp. Our +1 wound strats are 2cp. These can be really critical pushing wounds through on T8 vehicles. Then you factor in a reroll or 2 and you’ve spent all your cp by turn 2.

 

I do recommend running a guard battalion for cheap CP and some chaff bodies.

[Duke Danse Macabre]

I've been trying awful hard to avoid "noob questions", but are the extra 5 CPs of double battalion worth having to take two additional HQs?

 

Going through stratagems - especially with the teleportation - I can see how they can be pretty powerful if used correctly, but...

 

Adding two more of the dead cheapest options for HQs; Chaplains - that don't get the new Space Marine litanies yet - is 144 points. In an army where every point counts that's three more Inceptors, eight more intercessors, or half a Repulsor. I'm expecting that building and painting the Kill Teams will take me to Chapter Approved and beyond, but as of right now I can't really see any options - especially Primaris options - that are worth potentially losing a third Repulsor.

 

I suppose if I was going to go "semi-competitive" I could always grab a few Astra Militarum for a cheap CP battery. Having zero Psyker defense is something an additional HQ could rectify as well.  I'll be interested to see if Deathwatch gets access to any of the new toys with Chapter Approved or Psychic Awakening.

This is something allot of us struggle with as well, normally your not getting a good HQ choice outside of 100 points and then where's our points for everything else gone?

Sadly we need the cp to keep up so when we hit we kill but we just have to be creative.

I like to run a Chaplin dread with twin las for 192 points, adds +1 to wound for units in combat with a unit he is fighting and is a tough dread with 5+ invun, character rule and under 10 wounds.

Stick him behind the combiaggressor big squad and with the auto Bolters they can not only hold objectives and take the pain and charge up field still shooting up to 12 inches a turn but also if used in combat with units like knights with your dread supporting you are getting 12 power fist attacks wounding on 3's, 2's if boosted with the strat, wisdom of the ancients can grant rerolls or even just a baby sitting cap.

 

We have a use for everything in our army ( except reavers and the infernus heavy Bolter) but the trick is finding out how things can work together to be a serious multi threat.