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Just an Idea I had.


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#1
Bruce Malcom

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If people like the idea, I'll write it all the way through probably.

 

So basically there was a strong WAAAGH! that hit a proto-Hive world (so it had a wide selection of people with different talents), and so a couple successor chapters (along with a squad of Ultramarines) as well as the Imperial Navy (carrying quite a few guardsmen and such) assisted in defending the world.

 

However the WAAAGH! was far too strong and the planet was already too ravaged, and so the Navy (with civilian ships, eager to run) entered the Warp in an emergency jump, which accidentally brought Ork forces with them.

 

But once they left transit, they showed up in the middle of nowhere, with Ork forces scattered and likely closing in. In their mad dash towards the nearest Imperial stronghold, they found nothing but scraps, and so a small team of ten Astartes landed on the planet. Surveys suggested...

 

...the planet's Imperial presence was wiped out 6,000 years ago.

 

----------------

So that would be the intro couple chapters, it's basically BSG but time traveling 40k, with the plot points that comes from that.

 

Thoughts?


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#2
Bjorn Firewalker

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BSG was badly plotted- neither the original or the remake's writers had an ending in mind when the shows started, forcing them to "make it up as [they] went along," which led to the series getting canceled as the audience grew tired of the writers pulling You Know What from their You Know Where.

If you want a WH40K BSG to work, you must do better than the writers of both original and remake BSG. Have a firm idea on where you want the story to go, what themes you want to explore, how you want the characters to react to the situations you'll put them through, how you want them to change (if at all), and how you want the story to END. When the Imperial refugees discover "the planet's Imperial presence was wiped out 6,000 years ago," will they succumb to despair and commit mass suicide? Go insane at the idea their struggles in life were meaningless, and make a "last stand" against the Orks, in an attempt to give their inevitable deaths meaning? Maintain faith, and attempt to reestablish Imperial presence on the planet? Attempt to create a harmonious union with the Orks, like the Tau once did (and failed in)?

What measures will your characters undertake, to achieve these ends? If a Daemon offers the Imperial leader the resources necessary to achieve his goals, will the leader accept, justifying his heresy and treason as the "only way to protect my people"? Refuse, and risk making the Daemon an enemy- or worse, a patron of his present enemies, including political rivals among the people he leads? In the latter case, will the Imperial leader attack the Daemon with what precious resources he has, or attempt to flee its influence?

And this is just a VERY SMALL sample of the questions you must answer as a writer! For such an ambitious story, you must devote a LOT of effort.
  • Bruce Malcom likes this

Wolf Scout- Catachan barking toad eggs+ Thousand Sons Marine= Fun! (Wolves of Catachan)
Sisters of Battle+ Fenrisian Beer- Inhibitions- Sanity= Trouble! (Order of the Blazing Heart Rocket Punch Pimp Magnet She-Wolf)

 

Reasons to use the Steel Crusaders ('Codex: Space Marines' supplement): Because you think giving Sternguard Veterans a heavy bolter wtih special issue HEAVY BOLTER ammunition is ALMOST as much fun as shoehorning an Earthshaker cannon into a Land Raider.

 

Reasons to use the Iron-hearted Angels ('Codex: Blood Angels' supplement): Because you think the Librarian Dreadnought needs Furious Charge AND It Will Not Die to beat down a Chaos-worshiping punk and his Defiler, while a Stormraven needs a Vanquisher cannon to beat down this punk's Heldrake.


#3
Bruce Malcom

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BSG was badly plotted- neither the original or the remake's writers had an ending in mind when the shows started, forcing them to "make it up as [they] went along," which led to the series getting canceled as the audience grew tired of the writers pulling You Know What from their You Know Where.

If you want a WH40K BSG to work, you must do better than the writers of both original and remake BSG. Have a firm idea on where you want the story to go, what themes you want to explore, how you want the characters to react to the situations you'll put them through, how you want them to change (if at all), and how you want the story to END. When the Imperial refugees discover "the planet's Imperial presence was wiped out 6,000 years ago," will they succumb to despair and commit mass suicide? Go insane at the idea their struggles in life were meaningless, and make a "last stand" against the Orks, in an attempt to give their inevitable deaths meaning? Maintain faith, and attempt to reestablish Imperial presence on the planet? Attempt to create a harmonious union with the Orks, like the Tau once did (and failed in)?

What measures will your characters undertake, to achieve these ends? If a Daemon offers the Imperial leader the resources necessary to achieve his goals, will the leader accept, justifying his heresy and treason as the "only way to protect my people"? Refuse, and risk making the Daemon an enemy- or worse, a patron of his present enemies, including political rivals among the people he leads? In the latter case, will the Imperial leader attack the Daemon with what precious resources he has, or attempt to flee its influence?

And this is just a VERY SMALL sample of the questions you must answer as a writer! For such an ambitious story, you must devote a LOT of effort.


First of all, I love NuBSG and I found the ending to work. But no one else did sadly.

But yeah, I've put a lot of thought into this. Question; I had an idea where the Naval Admiral has an ultramarine tactical marine son (who was in the Fleet when it jumped). Can this work?
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#4
Bjorn Firewalker

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Question; I had an idea where the Naval Admiral has an ultramarine tactical marine son (who was in the Fleet when it jumped). Can this work?

It might, but you have to carefully think on the admiral's background. Why did this admiral let the Chapter take his son, instead of raising the latter to join him in naval service? (Remember, many recruits will die during training. Of the very few who will receive gene-seed instead of becoming Chapter serfs, some will die during the surgery to implant gene-seed organs. Of those who survive surgery, some will still die as they're "blooded," i.e., fight their first battles as Astartes.)

Was he forced to give up his son as payment for the Chapter's aid in a critical battle, or did he voluntarily give up this son in hopes the latter would have a future, e.g., it's an illegitimate son who'd otherwise inherit nothing, or a Librarian sensed his son is a psyker who must otherwise be given to the Black Ships? Did the son join the Ultramarines despite his father's disapproval, e.g., he "ran away from home" to attend a martial arts competition the Chapter held to evaluate potential recruits?

When father and son reunited, how did it go? "I'm proud of you, son"? "I'm ashamed you abandoned the path I set for you- abandoned your very humanity- to become an abhuman monster"? "You won great honor in becoming an Ultramarine"? "All the honor you won as an abhuman monster, are nothing compared to what you could've won as an officer of the Imperial Navy"?

Edited by Bjorn Firewalker, 31 October 2019 - 07:12 AM.

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Wolf Scout- Catachan barking toad eggs+ Thousand Sons Marine= Fun! (Wolves of Catachan)
Sisters of Battle+ Fenrisian Beer- Inhibitions- Sanity= Trouble! (Order of the Blazing Heart Rocket Punch Pimp Magnet She-Wolf)

 

Reasons to use the Steel Crusaders ('Codex: Space Marines' supplement): Because you think giving Sternguard Veterans a heavy bolter wtih special issue HEAVY BOLTER ammunition is ALMOST as much fun as shoehorning an Earthshaker cannon into a Land Raider.

 

Reasons to use the Iron-hearted Angels ('Codex: Blood Angels' supplement): Because you think the Librarian Dreadnought needs Furious Charge AND It Will Not Die to beat down a Chaos-worshiping punk and his Defiler, while a Stormraven needs a Vanquisher cannon to beat down this punk's Heldrake.


#5
Mazer Rackham

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Bjorn Firewalker hits a lot of things you should think about, that I'm trying to master myself, so take everything I say with condiments of your choice.

 

Perhaps a way to really make you Ultramarine Admiral son work is to load up the stakes a bit more:

 

The warp jump coincides with the opening of the Cicatrix Maledictum and tosses the fleet off course.  As the Librarians and Astro Telepathica/Navigators cannot fathom where they are because of the Cicatrix and that maybe they are all that is left, the Ultramarines are led by a hard nose and in the interests of defending the flotilla, the last lantern of civilisation, he conducts a crash conscription, which sweeps the son up into the pool.

 

This reinforces the conflict/division of power between the Astartes as a power in their own right and the grudging compliance of a hostage Imperial Navy, plus a disgruntled father.  You could also have conflict within the fleet at this division, with some of them backing it and the others not, but Bolters are persuasive and the bloody Orks are ever pressing....so needs must?

 

I didn't like the NuBSG personally, but I do like your premise and think it is workable and at least worth exploring.

 

MR.


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#6
Bruce Malcom

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Question; I had an idea where the Naval Admiral has an ultramarine tactical marine son (who was in the Fleet when it jumped). Can this work?

It might, but you have to carefully think on the admiral's background. Why did this admiral let the Chapter take his son, instead of raising the latter to join him in naval service? (Remember, many recruits will die during training. Of the very few who will receive gene-seed instead of becoming Chapter serfs, some will die during the surgery to implant gene-seed organs. Of those who survive surgery, some will still die as they're "blooded," i.e., fight their first battles as Astartes.)

Was he forced to give up his son as payment for the Chapter's aid in a critical battle, or did he voluntarily give up this son in hopes the latter would have a future, e.g., it's an illegitimate son who'd otherwise inherit nothing, or a Librarian sensed his son is a psyker who must otherwise be given to the Black Ships? Did the son join the Ultramarines despite his father's disapproval, e.g., he "ran away from home" to attend a martial arts competition the Chapter held to evaluate potential recruits?

When father and son reunited, how did it go? "I'm proud of you, son"? "I'm ashamed you abandoned the path I set for you- abandoned your very humanity- to become an abhuman monster"? "You won great honor in becoming an Ultramarine"? "All the honor you won as an abhuman monster, are nothing compared to what you could've won as an officer of the Imperial Navy"?

 

The Admiral gave him to the Ultramarines for...damn, not sure if I want to save this for the story or not...he's secretly proud of his son but he won't tell his son because the stigma about betraying Naval Heritage ('Your grandfather was a Naval Captain, his grandfather was...' etc. etc). But his son was (and is) kick@$$ in both a cockpit (I know techmarines usually do this job but like BSG I want fighter craft to be a tad prominent, with one of the surviving Imperial Navy ships being a carrier) and with a boltgun.

 

Bjorn Firewalker hits a lot of things you should think about, that I'm trying to master myself, so take everything I say with condiments of your choice.

 

Perhaps a way to really make you Ultramarine Admiral son work is to load up the stakes a bit more:

 

The warp jump coincides with the opening of the Cicatrix Maledictum and tosses the fleet off course.  As the Librarians and Astro Telepathica/Navigators cannot fathom where they are because of the Cicatrix and that maybe they are all that is left, the Ultramarines are led by a hard nose and in the interests of defending the flotilla, the last lantern of civilisation, he conducts a crash conscription, which sweeps the son up into the pool.

 

This reinforces the conflict/division of power between the Astartes as a power in their own right and the grudging compliance of a hostage Imperial Navy, plus a disgruntled father.  You could also have conflict within the fleet at this division, with some of them backing it and the others not, but Bolters are persuasive and the bloody Orks are ever pressing....so needs must?

 

I didn't like the NuBSG personally, but I do like your premise and think it is workable and at least worth exploring.

 

MR.

Well thanks, I likely will explore it.

 

As for your ideas about the Ultramarine conscription...I feel like the conflict would be there already (the idea was that, out of circumstance, the son is the highest ranking space marine left and so he leads the marines)


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#7
Bruce Malcom

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https://www.youtube....h?v=k8-HHivlj8k

 

Will begin work on the story tonight. Any last minute suggestions for me to keep in mind? I want this to be good and user and input from others usually ends up better than my own ideas...


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#8
Bjorn Firewalker

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Idea: The admiral's son is a weak psyker, the type whose life and soul would normally be sacrificed to keep the Emperor alive on His Golden Throne. To save him, the admiral offers his son to the Ultramarines, who accept in exchange for a "favor." The conflict is not between the Navy and the Astartes, but between the Astartes and the Inquisition, who resent the Ultramarines for stealing a soul from the Black Ships.

As the admiral's son is a weak psyker, he only receives minimal training in the Librarium, before getting transferred to the Armory to be trained as a driver/pilot.

It's there that the admiral's son's psychic powers demonstrate an impact far higher than their measured strength would indicate. As a psyker, he can usually sense where an enemy flyer's crew are, allowing him to reap a high number of kills, despite being, at best, an average pilot. Even if he cannot sense an enemy pilot (see the soulless Necrons), he can still sense ally pilots' precise locations, allowing him to coordinate with his squadron and position its pilots in the best position to kill an enemy, while avoiding the enemy's own killshots. This coordination skill elevates the admiral's son to the rank of Supreme Aerospace Commander.
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Wolf Scout- Catachan barking toad eggs+ Thousand Sons Marine= Fun! (Wolves of Catachan)
Sisters of Battle+ Fenrisian Beer- Inhibitions- Sanity= Trouble! (Order of the Blazing Heart Rocket Punch Pimp Magnet She-Wolf)

 

Reasons to use the Steel Crusaders ('Codex: Space Marines' supplement): Because you think giving Sternguard Veterans a heavy bolter wtih special issue HEAVY BOLTER ammunition is ALMOST as much fun as shoehorning an Earthshaker cannon into a Land Raider.

 

Reasons to use the Iron-hearted Angels ('Codex: Blood Angels' supplement): Because you think the Librarian Dreadnought needs Furious Charge AND It Will Not Die to beat down a Chaos-worshiping punk and his Defiler, while a Stormraven needs a Vanquisher cannon to beat down this punk's Heldrake.


#9
Brother Lunkhead

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Hope you haven't gotten too far with the Admiral's son, because your basic original idea is sound. Remember in Ultramar, it is considered a great honor for a boy to be chosen to join the ranks of the Ultramarine neophytes with even the remote chance of surviving to become an Astartes. Families gain an immense amount of prestige from this. Whether plebian or aristocrat, this is well established in the Ultramarine lore.

 

Since the boy would have entered the military scholum at an even earlier age, as a Space Marine he would probably be even more distant from his father emotionally. This would make for interesting tension, just like Adama and Apollo, only more somsn-wink.gif


Edited by Brother Lunkhead, 07 November 2019 - 12:07 AM.

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#10
Bruce Malcom

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Hope you haven't gotten too far with the Admiral's son, because your basic original idea is sound. Remember in Ultramar, it is considered a great honor for a boy to be chosen to join the ranks of the Ultramarine neophytes with even the remote chance of surviving to become an Astartes. Families gain an immense amount of prestige from this. Whether plebian or aristocrat, this is well established in the Ultramarine lore.

 

Since the boy would have entered the military scholum at an even earlier age, as a Space Marine he would probably be even more distant from his father emotionally. This would make for interesting tension, just like Adama and Apollo, only more somsn-wink.gif

Yes, but originally the Admiral was going to raise him as a pilot, an Admiral, all that. All of his collegues cheered and celebrated, but the Admiral was incredibly hurt because of what he had to do.


Edited by Bruce Malcom, 07 November 2019 - 09:36 PM.

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#11
Brother Lunkhead

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Yes, but originally the Admiral was going to raise him as a pilot, an Admiral, all that. All of his collegues cheered and celebrated, but the Admiral was incredibly hurt because of what he had to do.

 

Considering his position, the Admiral could easily have pulled strings to keep his son on coarse for the Imperial Navy with possibly no repercussions. The Scholums are really just prep schools for Ultramar's most promising youth (aristocratic or not) and merely a convenient nexus for recruitment by the Ultramarines. Perhaps his son rejected his father's choice of career path in favor of the Astartes path. His father would most certainly be hurt by thissad.png verymad.gif

 

Does the Admiral hold resentment for his son's choice? Does he resent the Ultramarines for taking his son?..... Hmmmdry.png.... I'm sensing some hint of lack of devotion to duty on the part of the Admiralunsure.png The Inquisition should know of this..... =][=eek.gif …...msn-wink.gif


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#12
Bruce Malcom

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